My good friend Dr Harry Jacobson created the DMAP program based on the wisdom of Aldo Leopold understanding that giving private landowners flexibility in managing wildlife resources was the future of quality wildlife mgt. Where states have employed this program private landowners have the opportunity to manage the resource more effectively with many increasing the quality of whitetails far beyond what was the historic norm under 'global' often politically driven regulation. I know here in La. overall the hunting is better than ever. Witness the new state record taken last yr. on a private property not far from my home. Trophy whitetails are taken every yr across the state as a result of the opportunities landowners have to manage to the results they want.
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Are the glory days of deer hunting coming to a close?
- Thread starter Howboutthemdawgs
- Start date
hillrunner
5 year old buck +
If you allowed landowners to call the shots in Iowa, farmers would have wiped the herd out long ago.
Howboutthemdawgs
5 year old buck +
Dmap works great in large blocks on large landowners like you see in the Deep South. Literally impossible in the Midwest where a 2000 acre neighborhood might have 35 different landowners
25 years ago, all we killed were 1.5 year old deer - mostly spikes and forkhorns. This past weekend, my son, his wife, his three daughters - 7/15 yrs old, and a 15 yr old boyfriend came to hunt during the last weekend of straight wall season. The biggest deer on the right was one of our six target bucks - he is at least 6.5. The next deer is 4.5 and so is the right cut off rack. The smaller cut off rack was a 2.5 yr old deer - the first deer for the 7 year old. The second deer from left was a 2.5 yr old still in velvet two weeks ago. I thought it might be an antlered doe, but turned out to be a buck with injured nuts. The doe was killed by my 15 yr old grand daughter who passed a buck like the second on right. I passed a buck like second on right. These kids are probably not going to be able to make it down during modern gun. There was one buck I gave them all a pic of I did not want them to shoot - a promising 4.5 yr old. I told them other than that, kill any one deer they wanted. All but the small cut off rack was killed in 45 min on saturday evening. We have little to no cell service, so most of us didnt know what had been killed and had we known, a couple of those deer might not have have been killed. This would have been unheard of in a full season 15 years ago. THis was one evening. Two of the bucks had never been on camera. One of our six target bucks.
Yes, it made me a little uneasy with all those dead deer. but at the same time, it was exciting for me that everyone except the seven year old seemed to genuinely appreciate the success of that evening. The kids even thanked me for my hard work, the parents thanked me for my hard work resulting in success for the kids. What made it even better, all but one of the bucks was shot in a food plot chasing does
My 15 yr old grand daughter did the bulk of the cleaning. She likes it for some reason
In my area, and farther south in Louisiana where my daughter lives, as far as deer hunting goes, these are the best of times.
BenA
5 year old buck +
You have to be in the right area of Louisiana to see that type of hunting though. The inventory of properties in LA that offer great hunting on smaller tracts is extremely low compared to some other states. Even overall in LA, the caliber of bucks available is not comparable to some of the Midwestern states. Just compare a general FB group for whitetail hunting in LA to a FB group of whitetail hunting in Kentucky. The overall caliber and numbers of good bucks is staggering. You're not going to buy a 40 acre block in Livingston parish for hunting trophy whitetails.
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I agree. And I agree with the comment about Iowa farmers wiping out deer if allowed. There was a reference to the big picture. I think we can all agree different areas have different circumstances. My point is, where the ethics value the resource and when given the right tools with the right opportunities private landowners will do a better job than the surgery by chainsaw approach most govt regulations accomplish . Where this is executed we see some of the best hunting in history.
The problem with much of the south, in general, our land will not grow the same caliber buck. Our average 5.5 year old buck is 118”. That picture of mine has two 4.5 yr old bucks and one at least 6.5 yr old buck. Probably average right at 118. What would those bucks look like in kentucky, kansas, or Iowa. Some of the guys on this forum from the midwest say they have seen 150” 3.5 year old deer. Iowa hunters kill something like 50% 1.5 year old deer - to us down here, we would be embarrassed to kill a 1.5 yr old deer. I always Contend it is not the seasons in the midwest that make the buck so great, it is the dirt. If the average 5.5 yr old buck in Iowa scored 118, do you think we would think of Iowa as one of the best big buck producers? Their season is not what makes a mature buck so big - it is their dirt. We have plenty of mature bucks, but nobody is clamoring to come to south AR to hunt trophy antlers. Yes, there are some true giants produced in the south, but those are typically freaks or on the most fertile acres in the state. 
I also agree with this to a point. 40 acres in Livingston Parish is likelyy a bust The good news is there are many privately owned larger tracts and they are producing quantities and quality of bucks comparable anywhere. That said I do agree one may have to work a little harder to accomplish in La. what is more easily accomplished elsewhere.
{ I don't do FB or most other social media so maybe I'm all wrong. This and another site are about the only Social media I visit. Love the debate and dialogue }
Completely agree...it's the dirt! Everything starts there including human nutrition.However I've found on my historically absolutely crappy soil I've been able to compensate. It has only taken 50 yrs of intense habitat and deer mgt.The problem with much of the south, in general, our land will not grow the same caliber buck. Our average 5.5 year old buck is 118”. That picture of mine has two 4.5 yr old bucks and one at least 6.5 yr old buck. Probably average right at 118. What would those bucks look like in kentucky, kansas, or Iowa. Some of the guys on this forum from the midwest say they have seen 150” 3.5 year old deer. Iowa hunters kill something like 50% 1.5 year old deer - to us down here, we would be embarrassed to kill a 1.5 yr old deer. I always Contend it is not the seasons in the midwest that make the buck so great, it is the dirt. If the average 5.5 yr old buck in Iowa scored 118, do you think we would think of Iowa as one of the best big buck producers? Their season is not what makes a mature buck so big - it is their dirt. We have plenty of mature bucks, but nobody is clamoring to come to south AR to hunt trophy antlers. Yes, there are some true giants produced in the south, but those are typically freaks or on the most fertile acres in the state.
100%. At least in the south, in large part, we have mature bucks not because of game and fish regulations, but because of private land owner management. I will give credit to g&f, at the insistence of hunters, the 3 pt reg made a lot of hunters understand that passing a buck was not the end of the world.
BenA
5 year old buck +
Oh I agree with you 100%. Louisiana has some of the finest hunting around with bucks comparable almost anywhere. BUT! That key word you used "LARGER" is an extremely important distinction. That larger piece also has to be in the right area. Those two things make good LA hunting out of reach for many people. If you can show me a property in LA that I can do an almost even swap for my KY place and have the same quality of deer hunting experience with being able to see at least 140" bucks every year, then I will eat 1000 crows and do a 1031 exchange as fast as I can.
One last thought in particular to the idea that some areas naturally produce bigger bucks than others. Of course that is true. But when looked at relatively, I propose for example the hunting and quality of bucks in La. compared to what it used to be has improved dramatically. Is that true everywhere? Probably yes in some areas , no in others.
Glad you found what you are looking for and would never put you on a crow diet. That said, my farm is NOT in a good area having crappy water logged soil . Nonetheless would love to invite you over next time you are in La. and can guarantee we can top 140"
Howboutthemdawgs
5 year old buck +
I definitely agree that you can grow bigger deer in Iowa by doing nothing than Arkansas by managing intensely, but it’s all relative. Quality to me is defined by a top representation of a specific area. If a top end buck is 140 then that is the realistic top end. But quality is quality and if an area isn’t reaching its potential but at one point it was, you can argue the quality is down regardless of score relative to another areaThe problem with much of the south, in general, our land will not grow the same caliber buck. Our average 5.5 year old buck is 118”. That picture of mine has two 4.5 yr old bucks and one at least 6.5 yr old buck. Probably average right at 118. What would those bucks look like in kentucky, kansas, or Iowa. Some of the guys on this forum from the midwest say they have seen 150” 3.5 year old deer. Iowa hunters kill something like 50% 1.5 year old deer - to us down here, we would be embarrassed to kill a 1.5 yr old deer. I always Contend it is not the seasons in the midwest that make the buck so great, it is the dirt. If the average 5.5 yr old buck in Iowa scored 118, do you think we would think of Iowa as one of the best big buck producers? Their season is not what makes a mature buck so big - it is their dirt. We have plenty of mature bucks, but nobody is clamoring to come to south AR to hunt trophy antlers. Yes, there are some true giants produced in the south, but those are typically freaks or on the most fertile acres in the state.
Edit- after reading that, it was a lot of Kamala word salad but you get the point.
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hillrunner
5 year old buck +
I've done almost exactly that on several occasions and will continue to in the future. In fact, as I type this, I can see the skulls of 2 different 125-135 class 8 points and 1-148" 8 point I killed. Every one of those deer were killed on years where I passed younger bucks with much bigger racks.
BenA
5 year old buck +
I live in LA. I had to buy in KY and commute 10.5 hours to hunt maybe 10 days every year in order to have the kind of hunting I wanted. I am priced out of that type of land in LA. If the caliber of deer were available here in my home state for what I could afford, then I'd buy here. I know where your property is in LA, and you have a very unique set of circumstances that sets your place apart from many others.
Brian662
5 year old buck +
Have you thought about moving to a new location or a place you can control more ground?
Brian662
5 year old buck +
Look at Winke, he left 1,000+ acres in southern Iowa and although he said it was still a great farm, it wasn't like it used to be (according to him).
He had been hit with EHD multiple times amongst other things, but controlling 1,000 acres in one of the most heavily managed areas of the country, if you're still seeing a decline...something is definitely happening.
His decline was before the $100 cell camera too.
He had been hit with EHD multiple times amongst other things, but controlling 1,000 acres in one of the most heavily managed areas of the country, if you're still seeing a decline...something is definitely happening.
His decline was before the $100 cell camera too.
My opinion here - I think the south was late to catch on to the “trophy” management craze because in the midwest, a “trophy” in the eyes of a southerner can be grown by accident - an average iowa 4.5 year old deer would probably be a trophy to a Southerner. Us folks in the south had so much to combat - a different culture where deer were considered a right to kill for food when you needed them, baiting, multiple buck limits, crossbows, dogs, two month gun seasons. It is difficult to get a deer to age with a season structure like that - and if you get one to 5.5, he scores 118. Of the six or so mature bucks using my place - and some of these bucks are 6 or 7 yrs old - one will probably break 150, one maybe 140, another 130’s, and the rest 100 to 125. We have to produce a lot of mature bucks to produce a 150” deer. A lot. I think us southerners took a lot longer to convince that management would see results.
