Anybody have an LLC
- Thread starter Shad DeBoor
- Start date
Reagan
5 year old buck +
The Fair Tax Plan is not a flat tax
It is not a VAT.
Send me your address and I'll send you a 180 page paper back that explains it all. You can read it while taking a couple of shits.
Btw, catchy name for the website you linked. After all the discussion above, do you actually like our current tax system?
The more you make the higher the rate you pay in our current system. That punishes success and rewards those who produce less. That's not a good thing IMO.
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It is not a VAT.
Send me your address and I'll send you a 180 page paper back that explains it all. You can read it while taking a couple of shits.
Btw, catchy name for the website you linked. After all the discussion above, do you actually like our current tax system?
The more you make the higher the rate you pay in our current system. That punishes success and rewards those who produce less. That's not a good thing IMO.
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M
MoBuckChaser
Guest
Too Funny! No need to send something that will never be put into place!
BTW: IF you think Europe is bad, get your plan installed here. I can assure you, you won't be able to save any money, it will all be spent for food! LOL
Reagan
5 year old buck +
The owner of the site.
Kay Bell.
She spent nearly two decades working as a congressional staffer. I haven't found it yet, but I would bet she worked for a democrat. Two decades there sounds like a former Washington insider. Very few people in Washington are in favor of a better system.
She now makes a living writing about our extremely complicated tax code. Of course that job ends if we simplified the system.
There are pages and pages of information on how to pay less taxes. It would take me a year to read it all. Yep, that sounds like a great tax system.
She either hasn't read the Fair Tax plan or she is dishonest. She mixes statements about the flat tax and the fair tax like they are the same thing. They are not.
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Kay Bell.
She spent nearly two decades working as a congressional staffer. I haven't found it yet, but I would bet she worked for a democrat. Two decades there sounds like a former Washington insider. Very few people in Washington are in favor of a better system.
She now makes a living writing about our extremely complicated tax code. Of course that job ends if we simplified the system.
There are pages and pages of information on how to pay less taxes. It would take me a year to read it all. Yep, that sounds like a great tax system.
She either hasn't read the Fair Tax plan or she is dishonest. She mixes statements about the flat tax and the fair tax like they are the same thing. They are not.
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M
MoBuckChaser
Guest
Dishonest? They are all dishonest! Everyone in politics is. If you think that will change with a new flat tax system you are sadly mistaken! LOL
Reagan
5 year old buck +
Europe doesn't have the Fair Tax.
As long as people don't want to learn about it, blindly follow our politicians and journalist,and continue to "love" our current system, you are right. We will never see the Fair Tax.
People don't even take deductions they can take because they fear the IRS and an audit. I believe you stated above that you are one of them. Don't read the plan. Keep defending our government masters. At your stage in life it probably doesn't make a difference either way. It could make a difference for your kids. Death taxes, inheritance taxes are great things.
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As long as people don't want to learn about it, blindly follow our politicians and journalist,and continue to "love" our current system, you are right. We will never see the Fair Tax.
People don't even take deductions they can take because they fear the IRS and an audit. I believe you stated above that you are one of them. Don't read the plan. Keep defending our government masters. At your stage in life it probably doesn't make a difference either way. It could make a difference for your kids. Death taxes, inheritance taxes are great things.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
M
MoBuckChaser
Guest
I am not defending anyone or our current tax system, it is shitty at best. Our national debt is proof of that. But we have tried twice various forms of fair or flat tax systems in the country, neither worked out and were repealed. So do we really want history to repeat itself?
Red Picqua
5 year old buck +
one thing to add on the LLC aside from the Tax talk. Generally if a member of the corporation is involved in a tort and if an attorney or the court in litigation can't determine the asset breakdown based upon ownership in the LLC than the whole LLC is at risk to a tort. So, someone said that it saves you from the risk of a lawsuit???? Not even close, if anything it provides more concrete evidence of ownership and culpability. Basically in a nutshell you best have ALL your ducks in a row when it comes to books because if you are caught cooking them than EVERYONE is at risk for a lawsuit no matter of the LLC or not. Plus, if the taxes are not up to par, everyone in the LLC is at risk. yes there are advantages but only those to very skilled in accounting and business practices and legal proceedings. Good luck with your first lawsuit with someone from a legit law firm.
oh.. I know let's just form an LLC and it prevents us from lawsuits and it prevents us from anything. It's a magic pill.
I am sure that all of you have stock sales in your LLC's and also can show divestiture of assets and also have immaculate book keeping. I will guarantee the books are not up to snuff and ONE audit will make you realize it.
oh.. I know let's just form an LLC and it prevents us from lawsuits and it prevents us from anything. It's a magic pill.
I am sure that all of you have stock sales in your LLC's and also can show divestiture of assets and also have immaculate book keeping. I will guarantee the books are not up to snuff and ONE audit will make you realize it.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
An accountant can make $80K a year as an employee of a firm. The investment to start an accounting business is significantly more. With today's tax code, he can depreciate computing equipment (a must today) software, office space, and so on just like a farmer does. Every individual makes a decision whether to start a business based on the cost, risk, and reward. Some businesses are capital intensive, others are not. Capital intensive businesses typically have the market protection of the high cost of entry that low capital investment businesses don't.
What you describe is not a level playing field, it is one tilted by the tax code.
If the nation decides it is in the national interest to advantages particular types of businesses over others they can do that though legislation outside the tax code. Your farmer is the perfect example. The nation has determined that keeping farmland available is in the national interest so that other nations can't use food as leverage. Thus we have the Farm Bill. It is a subsidy for a particular business area but it is properly done outside the tax code.
I've got lots of friends with small businesses in the trades. I often hear things like "Well, I don't need a new truck, but my accountant says I need to buy one or I'll have to pay a huge tax bill. My old one works fine and has lots of life but he has fully depreciated it." This is a horrible business decision being driven by the tax code. This is just one example of how the tax code drives business against the market.
The decision of how to collect tax and who to collect it from should be independent of how much tax is collected and how the government spends the money they collect. Whether we collectively decide to subsidize farmers over others, or gas and oil over wind and solar, or you name it over something else, those decisions should be independent of tax collection.
I personally benefit from the current tax collection system (as do you, I'm sure). I've got 401Ks, IRAs, home mortgage, investment strategies, and an LLC that let me legally avoid tax. I still believe a simple tax on sales is the most fair. Earning money doesn't benefit anyone, no matter how much or little until they spend it.
But as you say, it won't happen in your lifetime or mine. (Thought I'd end on our point of agreement).
Thanks,
Jack
What you describe is not a level playing field, it is one tilted by the tax code.
If the nation decides it is in the national interest to advantages particular types of businesses over others they can do that though legislation outside the tax code. Your farmer is the perfect example. The nation has determined that keeping farmland available is in the national interest so that other nations can't use food as leverage. Thus we have the Farm Bill. It is a subsidy for a particular business area but it is properly done outside the tax code.
I've got lots of friends with small businesses in the trades. I often hear things like "Well, I don't need a new truck, but my accountant says I need to buy one or I'll have to pay a huge tax bill. My old one works fine and has lots of life but he has fully depreciated it." This is a horrible business decision being driven by the tax code. This is just one example of how the tax code drives business against the market.
The decision of how to collect tax and who to collect it from should be independent of how much tax is collected and how the government spends the money they collect. Whether we collectively decide to subsidize farmers over others, or gas and oil over wind and solar, or you name it over something else, those decisions should be independent of tax collection.
I personally benefit from the current tax collection system (as do you, I'm sure). I've got 401Ks, IRAs, home mortgage, investment strategies, and an LLC that let me legally avoid tax. I still believe a simple tax on sales is the most fair. Earning money doesn't benefit anyone, no matter how much or little until they spend it.
But as you say, it won't happen in your lifetime or mine. (Thought I'd end on our point of agreement).
Thanks,
Jack
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
I think the point was that it is a shield against a suit against the LLC attaching your personal assets held outside the LLC. It does not stop anyone from suing the LLC or you personally. For example, let's say an LLC hires a certified burner to conduct a controlled burn that gets out of control and damages neighboring properties. Folks can sue and if they prevail, take every asset the LLC hold, but my personal assets held outside the LLC have a level of protection. Like any form of corporation, the corporate shield is not impenetrable under certain circumstances, but in most cases, personal assets are protected.
Thanks,
Jack
Red Picqua
5 year old buck +
That statement leads me to believe that your assets and books are 100% impeccable and there is zero doubt left in a forensic accountants abilities to uncover any sort of muddling in-between books. Are you 100% sure you have not written a check out of your own personal check book to cover any sort of expense? 100% positive? Never once did you provide a loan to the LLC without documentation? Are you 100% positive that during the course of the business of being in a LLC not one of the "officers" (tongue in cheek because I can only imagine what this LLC looks like) provided a loan or purchased something that wasn't recorded properly by a CPA? Are you positive that within the corporation that an officer has not held their shares as collateral or has a warrant on it with another member?
All I am saying.. if you think you form an LLC and your personal assets are 100% safe from litigation you sadly and I mean sadly mistaken. Trust me when I say this, people in an LLC have a extremely false sense of security when it comes to how to properly run a business and avoid litigation when it comes to a personal tort.
I would go on a limb and say, that at one time or another someone at LLC was injured and required medical attention. Was any paperwork filled out to indemnify and hold harmless the agents and officers against anyone for filing a civil tort? Does everyone that sets foot on the land have to sign a waiver of personal liability? I would LOVE to see how that is written and how it's administered. Because the first medical bill paid by someone who didn't sign it... you might as well take all the personal assets and company assets and say.. HERE YOU GO.
M
MoBuckChaser
Guest
Don't argue with him anymore Red, or you too will become.......
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yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Your points are well taken but they apply to other forms of incorporation as well. Nothing is fool proof. I tend to think we all have a false sense of security in many aspects of life. An LLC s a tool. It can be use properly and effectively or improperly and ineffectively.
Thanks,
Jack
Red Picqua
5 year old buck +
HHAHA Mo! Not arguing.. just letting some one know, just because you are in an LLC doesn't give you free reign to avoid litigation. I can assure you if ANYONE thinks you are safe and they can't touch you. I will be the FIRST to say that the ONLY businesses are safe are the ones run by accountants and lawyers. ANYONE else, you are fair game. NO one has squeaky clean books, NO ONE, unless you are LEGIT business run by LEGIT lawyers and accountants.
jack.. I saw you posted some things on the deer butchering.. Great stuff that I saw too by the way. really cool. Beautiful saw and very high end vac machine, nothing cheap about those units. wow. .
Where those items that you posted of your own personal use or were those part of the corporation? Do you normally store those at home or have they EVER been at the corporation?
jack.. I saw you posted some things on the deer butchering.. Great stuff that I saw too by the way. really cool. Beautiful saw and very high end vac machine, nothing cheap about those units. wow. .
Where those items that you posted of your own personal use or were those part of the corporation? Do you normally store those at home or have they EVER been at the corporation?
Red Picqua
5 year old buck +
Jack... my humble advice.. if you are in an LLC you best make 100000000% sure that your books are perfect and I mean perfect. Once the statement of fact is out financial books are no longer advisable nor accurate. Game over and in a civil proceeding ALL officers are liable UNDER THE LLC.
I caution ANYONE from joining an LLC to SAVE ON TAXES. Consult with a legit lawyer and a legit accountant about the risks. It not a safe haven, by a long shot.
I caution ANYONE from joining an LLC to SAVE ON TAXES. Consult with a legit lawyer and a legit accountant about the risks. It not a safe haven, by a long shot.
M
MoBuckChaser
Guest
Great advice son!
Red Picqua
5 year old buck +
to your example... LLC does a controlled burn.. Burn cost two people their homes.
Yes. the LLC does offer a LEVEL of protection. That protection is that not get to bring the LLC into litigation but I get to bring you and all of the officers into litigation. Hopefully some one on the board has DEEP pockets. All I need to do is have a forensic accountant comb over your books and sooner or later something is wrong. NO one in these LLC's are perfect especially small businesses. Once there is ONE slip up, the flood gates open. Now it's you and all the officers one by one standing in front of a judge.
a little controlled burn, "judge I am part of an LLC, I can't be held liable.. what are you talking about?" You know what.. I am going to start an LLC today and burn down my Ex's house. "honey i formed an LLC, it's Called."i hate you more than I know INC." The judge looks at me. OH.. it's an LLC.. free pass. no worries. I see your corporation is worth 2 cents. No worries. Have a nice day everyone... Thank the lord for LLC's. I can burn my Ex's house down and call it a controlled burn, but I can only have my LLC assets brought into litigation.
I am so happy that I just formed this LLC, I am going to ask Mo to be my vice chairman and chief operation beer staffer. We are safe so it's a good day.
Yes. the LLC does offer a LEVEL of protection. That protection is that not get to bring the LLC into litigation but I get to bring you and all of the officers into litigation. Hopefully some one on the board has DEEP pockets. All I need to do is have a forensic accountant comb over your books and sooner or later something is wrong. NO one in these LLC's are perfect especially small businesses. Once there is ONE slip up, the flood gates open. Now it's you and all the officers one by one standing in front of a judge.
a little controlled burn, "judge I am part of an LLC, I can't be held liable.. what are you talking about?" You know what.. I am going to start an LLC today and burn down my Ex's house. "honey i formed an LLC, it's Called."i hate you more than I know INC." The judge looks at me. OH.. it's an LLC.. free pass. no worries. I see your corporation is worth 2 cents. No worries. Have a nice day everyone... Thank the lord for LLC's. I can burn my Ex's house down and call it a controlled burn, but I can only have my LLC assets brought into litigation.
I am so happy that I just formed this LLC, I am going to ask Mo to be my vice chairman and chief operation beer staffer. We are safe so it's a good day.
M
MoBuckChaser
Guest
Sorry Red, I am nobody's vice anything! But I will have a beer with ya! LOL
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Those are my items. I've had the saw for many years. The grinder and vacuum sealer are only a couple years old. The pictures are in my kitchen. Yes, my wife is a saint. She doesn't hunt but she is a full participant in the butchering. We live in the suburbs where few folks have a hunting heritage. She has converted a lot of anti-hunting folks. She invites folks over for dinner. They all say things like "That was the best steak I ever had". She then tells them it was venison. She now has a list of city folk as long as your arm that we provide venison to each year.
I really didn't know what venison tasted like until I started processing my own. I grew up in PA with a million hunters and a very short season. All the processing plants would shut down right before deer season and convert to deer. Who knows what you got. They would weigh your deer and through it in the pile outside with a tag. There was way too much volume for them. Several weeks later you would go pick up your meat. It was nothing like what I'm eating now.
The saw is on wheels and I built a ramp and store it in my garage. The other items are on stainless carts with wheels. They are covered and go into a nearby storage room.
Thanks,
Jack
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
I agree 100%. I doubt we are in any better or worse shape than most small businesses. Saving on taxes was not our purpose for an LLC. When we decided to purchase the land, we were hunters with similar views on wildlife management. We looked at the tract we ended up purchasing and believed the location was good for a long-term real estate play. It has a pipeline and communication cable ROW crossing it and a RR adjoining it and access to a highway. We believed the area would grow and thought the site was well positioned for a future industrial park. Since the tract was planted in pines by the paper company we purchased it from, we thought we could manage it for pine timber for income while we hold it. We believed we could manage it for a balance between timber and wildlife and it would be a great place to hunt and do QDM in an area where hunting ground is becoming scarce.
Our primary concern was how to hold the property in such a way that we could control how it was managed over time. We did not want one of us getting upset about something and selling shares to the highest bidder that might have a very different philosophy about management or hunting. We used the LLC to establish a set of rules that sacrifice the liquid value of shares for the security of knowing how the property will be managed. So far, that has worked out pretty well for us.
We have had the place for a little over 10 years. We have completed our first timber sale and have benefited from the USDA NRCS programs. We do make purchases out of personal accounts. We act as any business with folks submitting receipts with expense reports and being reimbursed by the LLC for some items. Major things like contracts are paid directly by the LLC.
I don't really disagree with you that there is always a risk in anything we do including forming LLCs, S-Corps, and partnerships.
Thanks,
Jack
