Anti dnr coming back to bite us in wi!

dipper, I understand where you are coming from, and I agree that we are pretty much #&%ed if this gets passed. My question is, do you really think this has the least little bit to do with a few hundred thousand hunters b!tch!ng about not having enough deer or maybe we get a bit more real and look at the NRB and the Gogebic/fracking situation and the few hundred billion dollars that the puppetmasters stand to loose when the mining restrictions are tightened up due to the recommendations of our DNR and UW scientists. I'm pretty sure we are all big boys here and just because the conversation is centered around deer, we have already figured out that in the big picture, deer will be the least of our worries. Yup, pretty sure we all got it. This is a deer site and we complain in the context of deer. You want to complain about the mining, go to a mining forum. Clean water complaint, they got a forum for that as well.
 
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I do agree with dipper in that deer populations are important but very low in comparison to the resources that we need to survive. Take the copper mining in MN for example, do you want one guy saying yea go for it without any research/science backing up the decisions. I think our lakes and water are way too important to us for that.
 
Sure Wisc, but Walker is justifying these decisions/actions based on the dnr being incompetent because of a social hot button issue-deer.
It's politics, maybe I'm not being clear. Steve explained my point. Walker for sportsman!
 
dipper, I understand where you are coming from, and I agree that we are pretty much #&%ed if this gets passed.

The research portion isn't up for a vote. It's an internal DNR decision. They are using budget cuts as the excuse, but at least one key figure within that independent dept believes the decision has already been made and it will happen whether the budget cuts occur or not...And I have a really icky feeling that they are right about that.

With the way the DNR is being reshaped, that translates to a decision that's now either coming directly from or essentially requires approval from the Gov. That's what should make everyone in WI nervous as heck about our DNR being turned into a political arm of the state's Governor. As NoFo likes to point out..."what happens when that bike chick gets elected?" I know you are not saying this, but I just can't see this as Rep vrs Dem issue, as once this take over is complete it flat out doesn't matter which one is the Governor. You have big $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ contributors that want less regulations on mining in WI, just eliminate anything within the DNR that can oppose them by doing nothing more than telling your political appointee to do so. You want to shut down all mining and timber use in WI, you just tell the next political appointee to do so. It isn't quite that clean of a process, but it's getting closer and closer with each of these moves.

There is currently a very active and effective push occurring to be able to use the DNR to help enact political agendas by removing the checks and balances, essentially making it so any Governor to come can push whatever environmental agenda they want, without having any skin in the game (after all, it was the DNR's internal decision, conveniently forgetting that you appointed the chief and they'd be unbelievably stupid to go against the Governor's wishes on anything of any importance) and not needing for it to even come up for a vote. All the Gov will have to do, this Governor or any coming in the future, is tell your political appointee to make it happen and there is next to nothing standing in their path to stop it.

Getting rid of the NRB is part of what is required to expand that ability. Getting rid of the internal, independent research dept (which is what the article in Dipper's OP is all about) is just another step. No, they can't stop Steep or the next political appointee from doing anything, but ridding the DNR of that pesky independent research makes it so they can't make you look foolish or get the voters all worked up for doing making those changes. Add that together with the neutering of the NRB, and suddenly the balances are all but completely removed.

In my mind, it doesn't matter the least little bit if a person believes Walker walks on water or if they believe he is every bit as slimy as he is painted by many of those that aren't his biggest fans. This is something that all of WI has to think of in the long term. Regardless of what you think of Walker, someone is going to be following him from the other party. It's just a matter of time, and they are going to have these same powers.

Without a doubt, it has to do with deer....and it has to do with air, ground water contamination, soils, timber, fisheries, every natural resource related issue there is. The DNR becoming more and more and more a pure political arm of the Governor while all the checks and balances are being removed should make everyone on the left, right and in-between mad as hell for a bunch of reasons...but there's barely a ripple. Sorry for saying this, but I'm starting to question if we don't deserve whatever we get. How so much of the country has gone from a people that fought for our own independence to a people that refuses to hold the politicians we actually vote for accountable for nearly any power grad they make and eat up the lies they feed us just blows my mind (that's NOT aimed at anyone here...just a very general observation of what I see the country doing).

sorry for the rant.
 
I totally get that dipper, and so do most others, except for the party liners who just squawk rhetoric to push their agenda, and you won't change their tune even when you shove undisputable evidence in their faces. Walker and his cronies can use the deer hunters for their straw man all they want. The people of WI can already see right through this, the problem is, we can't do anything to really stop it right now due to the GOP having full control of all branches of the state government at this time. The only thing you can do is hold the next election over the heads of those who vote YES to this power grab, and they are all hoping we forget about it before the next election comes along. Here is the easy breakdown of the situation we face right now, it will be something else when the parties change hands, but the end result will be the same.

B!tch!ng deer hunters = GOP straw man

Deregulating mining, corporate farming, and pocket lining = GOP true agenda
 
The research portion isn't up for a vote. It's an internal DNR decision. They are using budget cuts as the excuse, but at least one key figure within that independent dept believes the decision has already been made and it will happen whether the budget cuts occur or not...And I have a really icky feeling that they are right about that.

With the way the DNR is being reshaped, that translates to a decision that's now either coming directly from or essentially requires approval from the Gov. That's what should make everyone in WI nervous as heck about our DNR being turned into a political arm of the state's Governor. As NoFo likes to point out..."what happens when that bike chick gets elected?" I know you are not saying this, but I just can't see this as Rep vrs Dem issue, as once this take over is complete it flat out doesn't matter which one is the Governor. You have big $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ contributors that want less regulations on mining in WI, just eliminate anything within the DNR that can oppose them by doing nothing more than telling your political appointee to do so. You want to shut down all mining and timber use in WI, you just tell the next political appointee to do so. It isn't quite that clean of a process, but it's getting closer and closer with each of these moves.

There is currently a very active and effective push occurring to be able to use the DNR to help enact political agendas by removing the checks and balances, essentially making it so any Governor to come can push whatever environmental agenda they want, without having any skin in the game (after all, it was the DNR's internal decision, conveniently forgetting that you appointed the chief and they'd be unbelievably stupid to go against the Governor's wishes on anything of any importance) and not needing for it to even come up for a vote. All the Gov will have to do, this Governor or any coming in the future, is tell your political appointee to make it happen and there is next to nothing standing in their path to stop it.

Getting rid of the NRB is part of what is required to expand that ability. Getting rid of the internal, independent research dept (which is what the article in Dipper's OP is all about) is just another step. No, they can't stop Steep or the next political appointee from doing anything, but ridding the DNR of that pesky independent research makes it so they can't make you look foolish or get the voters all worked up for doing making those changes. Add that together with the neutering of the NRB, and suddenly the balances are all but completely removed.

In my mind, it doesn't matter the least little bit if a person believes Walker walks on water or if they believe he is every bit as slimy as he is painted by many of those that aren't his biggest fans. This is something that all of WI has to think of in the long term. Regardless of what you think of Walker, someone is going to be following him from the other party. It's just a matter of time, and they are going to have these same powers.

Without a doubt, it has to do with deer....and it has to do with air, ground water contamination, soils, timber, fisheries, every natural resource related issue there is. The DNR becoming more and more and more a pure political arm of the Governor while all the checks and balances are being removed should make everyone on the left, right and in-between mad as hell for a bunch of reasons...but there's barely a ripple. Sorry for saying this, but I'm starting to question if we don't deserve whatever we get. How so much of the country has gone from a people that fought for our own independence to a people that refuses to hold the politicians we actually vote for accountable for nearly any power grad they make and eat up the lies they feed us just blows my mind (that's NOT aimed at anyone here...just a very general observation of what I see the country doing).

sorry for the rant.
Everything you say in this post is absolutely true Steve, the issue is, we have almost no recourse at this time to stop this. As I said above, with the GOP in full control, the only thing we as citizens have in our arsenal to fight with is the promise that "YES" voters will not serve another term. Those could be real or perceived threats to those politicians at this time, and many of them won't care come next election, because they will still get voted back in regardless of their stance on this vote. Some may even find themselves in nice cushy Koch Bros jobs if they vote the right way and then lose the next election, we have all seen that crap play out before.
 
The people of WI can already see right through this, the problem is, we can't do anything to really stop it right now due to the GOP having full control of all branches of the state government at this time. The only thing you can do is hold the next election over the heads of those who vote YES to this power grab,

As I said in I believe was my first post, that seems to be working. according to what I heard from the Rep Senator, he and some others are beginning to question their support of neutering the NRB, because of people like us voicing our displeasure and likely threatening to pull our votes if they support it. It's at least making them nervous enough to hedge on their position, possibly enough to break from Walker on this one. We don't need all of the Reps to break from him...just enough for the neutering not to be able to pass.

I'll be honest. I don't think there's anything we can do to stop the DNR from ridding themselves of the independent research aspect. That's Walker's call and I don't think he's overly worried about the next election for Gov right now...And he can spin it that he had nothing to do with this very easily, banking on the public to not putting together that he appointed the dnr chief and they aren't going to do anything big that either doesn't come straight from him or get's his approval first. And you know what? It will work.
 
That said, I will be calling his office today and hope others will, as well. I'm not holding out a ton of hope, but at least he will know that some realize that he is responsible for what his own political appointee does.
 
Good call Steve! Any way you could work this in to some type of publication that you are affiliated with? I would suppose not so much, but everyone needs to keep in mind that this type of thing will likely grow. This might be a WI issue now, but if this works, others are surely watching and will try to move towards this agenda in their states as well. This is a threat to hunting, hunters, and natural resources in general.
 
Any way you could work this in to some type of publication that you are affiliated with?

Not a chance. I was amazed D&DH ran the article they did in their last issue (they took a chapter of the book I wrote for them, tamed it down some, didn't use the most potentially offensive portions and ran it on their own...for those here that read it, you no doubt know the one and were likely as surprised as me that they ran a piece that was less than flattering to portions of the industry). 5-7 yrs ago, I'd tried to sell something like it to every magazine I write for and was turned down by all. Not a chance even D&DH is willing to touch something like this.....Though I don't see it as a Dem vrs Rep issue at all, many, many, many on the right would see it as an attack on Walker/conservatism and those on the left would likely try to use it as ammo against the right. That's exactly what happened when D&DH's Dan Schmidt wrote a couple negative blogs about bringing in Dr Deer
 
I kind of figured as much Steve. I agree it is not a right or left issue(even though it is right for now), it is all about gaining control to further whatever agenda is on the table at the time and having no checks to subdue the carnage that will ensue when the money man starts asking for payback, no matter who that money man might be.
 
I am not stupid but you guys are not making sense. What are you trying to say? In English.
Brooks, you any closer to understanding the WI process and the fact that Merchant is filling you with BS?
 
Nancy polosi and Paul Ryan make a show when the cameras are on, and sip martinis with each other after.
God bless America
 
:eek:d#mn you dipper, I about spit my drink on my keyboard!!!:D:D sip martinis together and laugh at the general populace! Probably not to far off base on that one.
 
On ANY TOPIC - all politicians have a huge bullet in their gunbelt - public disinterest and apathy about serious issues and politics. Although WE might have political interest for outdoor issues, or environmental ones ( clean air, water, soil, etc ) - the bulk of the population could care less. ( Look at the % of eligible voting-age citizens who don't get off their LAZY A$$ and vote ).Therein lies the power of politicians of either side. It allows radicals from either side to run wild. The Koch Bros. have pledged 1 BILLION to the republican party this election cycle. 2 men - 1 BILLION $$$. You think they don't want even more in return ?????????????

And theses moves WILL involve way more than just Wisc. and a lot more than deer - but once made, the lack of regulatory and scientific checks and balances will impact our deer numbers / hunting, clean air, clean water - above and BELOW ground - fishing, safety and quality of life.

What legacy are we passing on to our children ???????????? 50 - 100 years from now - how will they view us ?????????
 
25%(give or take) who gave a damn, 74% who were lazy, apathetic bums, and 1% who were the greediest human beings ever to walk the face of the earth.
 
My guess is your DNR is doing this on their own.
Not possible. Walker appointed the top three positions at the DNR, plus 5 of the 7 positions on the Natural Resources Board. The DNR can't wipe its a$$ without Republicans approving how many squares of TP are used. Remember, all these changes ... this is what Wisconsin voters voted for! ;)
 
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Walker appointed the top three positions at the DNR, plus 5 of the 7 positions on the Natural Resources Board. The DNR can't wipe its a$$ without Republicans approving how many squares of TP are used. Remember, all these changes ... this is what Wisconsin voters voted for! ;)

Nice to see you posting here...I think it was one of your posts on the old (when Dan was still there) blood brothers site that got me interested in food plotting.
 
Walker appointed the top three positions at the DNR, plus 5 of the 7 positions on the Natural Resources Board. The DNR can't wipe its a$$ without Republicans approving how many squares of TP are used. Remember, all these changes ... this is what Wisconsin voters voted for! ;)

I give you that. My point in this thread is that MN has been slowly discarding science data collection for years and now they want to use 'perception' as their measure. It appears Wisconsin may be drifting that direction, and when deer management becomes social and 'perception' based the hunters take it in the the shorts because they don't have the financial interests in line like ag, forestry, insurance and now add mining do. When perception is the reality and science is in the back seat we don't seem in great shape.
 
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