Anti dnr coming back to bite us in wi!

[dipper]

not only the resource board but scientific research getting the ax! Be careful what u wish for, I don't completely trust the dnr, but I don't trust a politician at all. They will be calling all natural resource shots! Koch bros and $$ calls the shots now!
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com.../04/10/wisconsin-dnr-science-bureau/25602447/

 

[bowhunternw]

I would think your governor has a way better grasp on natural resources than the DNR anyway. You are in good hands now.

 

[bat man]

My guess is your DNR is doing this on their own. Over here in MN the goal is to stop collecting any science based information. Perception is all you need. Every year we scale back more and more on any trackable real data based decisions. Our population chief is excited about moving towards Wisconsins idea of not sharing estimated densities with the hunting public. 'Accountability smountability' reads his custom license plate.

 

[Steve Bartylla]

If you care, keep writing and calling your gov officials. It seems to be working on Walkers' attempt to disband the NRB. Just the other day, I heard a Republican Senator (can't remember his name....just that they IDed him as a Rep Sen) say on the radio that he and some of the other Rep Senators were still contemplating that portion of the budget, as there had been a "surprising resistance" from some of those they represent to its neutering.

 

[Steve Bartylla]

My guess is your DNR is doing this on their own.

With the Governor appointing the head of the DNR in WI, when the DNR does something like this, it is almost always a politically motivated act....It would be like a VP deciding to make a huge corporate change, without running it by the president 1st.

 

[wiscwhip]

My guess is your DNR is doing this on their own. Over here in MN the goal is to stop collecting any science based information. Perception is all you need. Every year we scale back more and more on any trackable real data based decisions. Our population chief is excited about moving towards Wisconsins idea of not sharing estimated densities with the hunting public. 'Accountability smountability' reads his custom license plate.

As NoFo stated, this information is not accurate, we have all the population data available that we have always had and it is used by the County Deer Advisory Committees as one of their primary metrics, so absolutely untrue. The difference is the DNR is no longer being held those hard numbers of total deer per unit or dpsm to manage or maintain deer numbers. It is one metric among many that is used to adjust the herd up or down according to CDAC recommendations which are based on the total package of metrics. It is more like the committees know the numbers and then recommend to go up or down in population based on things like habitat overbrowsing, car collision data, hunter satisfaction, harvest data, ag damage complaints, etc.

 

[bat man]

Merchant made note in our meetings more than once that WI DNR no longer uses deer density estimates. Untrue?

 

[wiscwhip]

They gather the info and present it to the CDAC Committees for use in setting the quota, just like they always have. They don't use them specifically to set quota, they are one of many metrics that are used by the CDAC's to recommend the quota for their counties. Here is the link to the 102 page document for the county I hunt in, you look into it and see all the information that is presented to our "stakeholder teams" for use in setting our quota recommendations. See pages 26-29. The CDAC's then present this data to the NRB for evaluation, the DNR presents their own recommendation and they are compared and then voted on by the Natural Resources Board and put into affect for the coming season.

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/cdac/Juneau.pdf

 

[dipper]

This is far more important than silly deer. You guys are walking right into the trap. Foolish! The politicians spin this crap on a emotional topic like the stupid deer, where the real $ is one the major issues. Like water, soil, air.
The politicians play this crap all the time, that's why our country is such a mess.

 

[bat man]

This is far more important than silly deer. You guys are walking right into the trap. Foolish! The politicians spin this crap on a emotional topic like the stupid deer, where the real $ is one the major issues. Like water, soil, air.
The politicians play this crap all the time, that's why our country is such a mess.

Specifics? What trap do you speak of?

 

[wiscwhip]

Trapped by one too many pints?:confused:o_O

 

[bat man]

Its one metric. The cdac county board has 3 simple options. Maintain the deer level, increase, or decrease. I like it. Anyone can massage numbers for a given agenda.

Is accountability to goals tied to a metric or does the existence of 3 make accountability impossible?

 

[dipper]

Anything the dnr has authority over. Let's start with one item in the article. A republican lawmaker saying the dnrs evidence based decisions in regards to mining are inaccurate. Do u like clean water, or water at all? Research into high capacity wells, endangered plants, animals, you freaking name it.
If your lives revolve around deer that much so be it, I'm not gonna try to change opinions. Just open your eyes alittle.

 

[Steve Bartylla]

Not trying to speak for Dipper, but I believe what he is saying is that getting rid of the independent research aspect of the DNR has to do with far more important things than deer....That's what I see this as, anyway. The really big political $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ isn't in deer, one way or another. It's in getting rid of research that plays against things like a powerful mining company that contributes generously to your camp fund. It's in other large construction projects that may be found to have environmental impacts that are worrisome. It's about disposal of waste products and so on.....That's where the real $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ is in turning the DNR even more into another arm of the Governor. It also happens to have the potential to have much more serious consequences than mismanaging deer numbers. I'm not trying to downplay the importance of honest deer management, but it wouldn't come close to stacking up to having clean drinking water, breathable air and not having to worry that your child will be born with a 3rd arm.

 

[bat man]

I am not stupid but you guys are not making sense. What are you trying to say? In English.

 

[dipper]

Not gonna nofo, the soil is run down and it's open season on the water table. We'll be a dust bowl, right behind you. Who cares I guess.
Your exactly right, can't trust a liberal politician either. They are all scum.
Your son better be looking for a different career. I bet there will be openings in mining. The frac sand business will be on fire in the western side of the state. Walker for sportsman! Haha

 

[Greta&Gus]

not only the resource board but scientific research getting the ax! Be careful what u wish for, I don't completely trust the dnr, but I don't trust a politician at all. They will be calling all natural resource shots! Koch bros and $$ calls the shots now!
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com.../04/10/wisconsin-dnr-science-bureau/25602447/

Walker is in the pocket of the Koch brothers.

 

[Greta&Gus]

I am not stupid but you guys are not making sense. What are you trying to say? In English.

He is saying that independent research through the dnr is being compromised by big money at the expense of natural resources, I think.

Kind of apples to oranges with the mn situation but as you know big money ag and insurance is ruining us.

Money trumps political parties. It trumps freedom.

 

[Steve Bartylla]

Please stop with the dirty air, dirty water, throw Grandma over the cliff mantra. The NRB acts as a buffer for both sides. Think uber liberal gov. with no NRB check? I know the NRB is way more then bambi. I get it. How are the libs doing in Cali. dipper concerning water? Buddy showers, no watering, resevoirs are dried up,the most fertile ag land on the planet is a dustbowl thx to the Delta darter minnow and B.Boxer. 18% of the worlds veggies are grown here. Better start a victory garden or learn 47 ways to eat Point taters.

I agree completely on the NRB and none of my comments in the last post had anything to do with them. It was about the independent research that is "supposedly" already been decided internally to be terminated. A decision like that couldn't be made without the approval of the DNR head, which is a political appointment. I don't believe for a second that major of a change wouldn't be approved by the Gov that appointed her....or, at the very least, it would be an extremely bad, pants on head stupid professional move not to run it up the flag pole 1st.

What really has always bugged me is why is clean air and water a political issue? I can't comprehend how anyone could possibly believe that we don't need legit research on the consequences/potential consequences of our actions to keep our air and water safe. My son has done several trips to China. He says there are days when your lungs and throat actually hurt from breathing, and that's with a mask. They were repeatedly warned about drinking anything but bottled water.

I'm a huge fan of Capitalism, but don't buy for a second that corporate greed doesn't need to be held in check. IMO, to believe anything else is extremely dangerously naive (and using not 1, but 2 adjectives to state that has to increase the meaning somehow ;) )

One of the very basic principles of biology is that as populations grow their odds of killing themselves off with their own waste and resource abuse keeps raising. I've never understood how we are so arrogant as a race to believe that only happens with "other animals."

It's not a lib vrs con issue in my mind in any way, shape or form. It's scary as hell to me that it has somehow become one.

 

[wiscwhip]

Is accountability to goals tied to a metric or does the existence of 3 make accountability impossible?

Who are they going to hold accountable and for what? The DNR no longer has sole control of setting deer harvest quotas, the public(through input), CDAC Committees and the NRB all share in the accountability with the DNR to some degree now. The CDAC committee makes a recommendation, based on metrics like the ones in the link, along with input from the public through surveys and giving input at the CDAC meetings and they pass these harvest goal(increase, decrease, maintain) for a 3 year period....nevermind see this...
http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/documents/cdacfaq.pdf

The answers to most of your questions are in there.