Age this jawbone please.
- Thread starter momatt
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At least 4.5 but maybe 5.5. Why? Hard to say without actually holding it but based on my experience, we know it's an adult because there are 6 teeth present. We also know it's older than 1.5 because the premolar tricusp "baby tooth"is absent. Also, the adult premolar is stained and worn quite a bit, so we know it's older than 2.5. It can get a little tricky determining age between 3.5 & 4.5. The bottom part of the jaw show's a lot of wear between the dentine & enamel. However, the upper side of the jaw shows a sharper linguel crest. With that, I don't think it's 6.5 or older. Hope this helps.
Wild Thing
5 year old buck +
I agree with Kev. It is at least 4.5 and possibly 5.5. Hard to tell from looking at only one view.
The third premolar - P3 has only 2 cusps so we know it is at least 2.5.
Looking at the first molar - M1, you can see that the dentine strip is equal to or wider than the enamel on the lingual (tongue) side so it is at least 3.5.
Looking at the second molar - M2, you can see that the dentine strip is equal to or wider than the enamel on the lingual side so it is at least 4.5.
I can't really tell for sure from just looking at the photo but you can probably tell with a closeup view, but if the dentine strip on the last molar, M3, is equal to or wider than the enamel strip it would be at least 5.5.
Beyond 5.5 it gets more subjective based upon wear.
Nice deer - Congrats!
The third premolar - P3 has only 2 cusps so we know it is at least 2.5.
Looking at the first molar - M1, you can see that the dentine strip is equal to or wider than the enamel on the lingual (tongue) side so it is at least 3.5.
Looking at the second molar - M2, you can see that the dentine strip is equal to or wider than the enamel on the lingual side so it is at least 4.5.
I can't really tell for sure from just looking at the photo but you can probably tell with a closeup view, but if the dentine strip on the last molar, M3, is equal to or wider than the enamel strip it would be at least 5.5.
Beyond 5.5 it gets more subjective based upon wear.
Nice deer - Congrats!
Wild Thing
5 year old buck +
Dr Grant Woods posted a new video yesterday which gives an excellent explanation and illustrations of aging deer by the replacement and wear method:
Hunting Advice and Tips For Serious Deer And Turkey Huntershttps://www.growingdeer.tv
Hunting Advice and Tips For Serious Deer And Turkey Huntershttps://www.growingdeer.tv
Wild Thing
5 year old buck +
Most probably 5 1/2.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
The problem with jawbone aging of mature deer is that it is somewhat local. The food sources and coarseness of the soils have an impact on how fast teeth wear. In my area, that would be a 3 1/2 year old at a minimum. My best guess would be 4 1/2 if it were shot here, but it could even be older. The OS and mass say 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 around here.
Thanks,
Jack
Thanks,
Jack
The Big Fat Cementum Aging Tooth Test (How Accurate Is It Really?)
By Joe Elsinger One of the more recent activities to hit the world of deer hunting is cementum analysis of teeth to estimate age. The science of it has been around for decades. Cementum aging counts rings (annuli) in a deer’s teeth, similar to the annual rings in the cross section of a tree...
Above article on aging the cementum annuli is an interesting read - and shows no tooth aging method is near 100% accurate. Our state requires an incisor from any bear killed. Last year I killed a 180 lb bear that came back aged at two - which is what I had guessed. A few years before, I killed a 350 lb bear with quite a bit of visible tooth wear and the cementum age came back at 3. No way that bear was only three years ole. But cementum aging labs do not have the luxury of seeing the animal and they have no history with the animal or the area.
Jack is correct in that it varies based upon local factors as well. I weigh every deer we kill, and I believe weight history is also a very good indicator of age when you have enough historical data. Body shape is a fair indicator. Antler characteristics are also fair indicators. Take tooth wear, body characteristics, body weights, and antler characteristics together - and you probably have the ingredients for your best guess.
Wild Thing
5 year old buck +
I agree with everything SwampCat...except for the weight corresponding with age. Generally speaking perhaps, but not really anything you can hang your hat on - at least on our property here in Upper Michigan. We have weighed and aged every deer we have tagged here since we owned our property - well over 100 deer, both bucks and does. Weights have varied considerably. Of course, an October buck is going to generally have much more fat on its body than a December buck, but I have found that deer are pretty much like humans - some are just a little bigger or smaller than average.The Big Fat Cementum Aging Tooth Test (How Accurate Is It Really?)
By Joe Elsinger One of the more recent activities to hit the world of deer hunting is cementum analysis of teeth to estimate age. The science of it has been around for decades. Cementum aging counts rings (annuli) in a deer’s teeth, similar to the annual rings in the cross section of a tree...www.themeateater.com
Above article on aging the cementum annuli is an interesting read - and shows no tooth aging method is near 100% accurate. Our state requires an incisor from any bear killed. Last year I killed a 180 lb bear that came back aged at two - which is what I had guessed. A few years before, I killed a 350 lb bear with quite a bit of visible tooth wear and the cementum age came back at 3. No way that bear was only three years ole. But cementum aging labs do not have the luxury of seeing the animal and they have no history with the animal or the area.
Jack is correct in that it varies based upon local factors as well. I weigh every deer we kill, and I believe weight history is also a very good indicator of age when you have enough historical data. Body shape is a fair indicator. Antler characteristics are also fair indicators. Take tooth wear, body characteristics, body weights, and antler characteristics together - and you probably have the ingredients for your best guess.
Our biggest 3 1/3 year old buck dressed out at exactly 200#...smallest 3 year old dressed out at 135#. The only 5 year old we ever killed dressed out at 130 something (December).
Same thing with does. Our biggest ever dressed out at 127# and she was 10+ years old...(still looking for the mythical 200# doe
). Doe weights are all over the map.BTW - The last bear we killed weighed 215# and was aged at 2 years old also.
I give absolutely no credence to jaw aging past 2. Worthless and can be off dramatically . Don't even look at jaws anymore except on uber old bucks cause its kinda cool to see what a 10 yr + bucks jaws look like.
Regarding cementum aging it is better but not perfect. have sent over 100 jaws for testing many known aged bucks. Some years fairly accurate. Other years not so much. Curiously nutritional stress can jigger the results as much as anything. That said though this method generally is only off 1 year... generally.
Regarding cementum aging it is better but not perfect. have sent over 100 jaws for testing many known aged bucks. Some years fairly accurate. Other years not so much. Curiously nutritional stress can jigger the results as much as anything. That said though this method generally is only off 1 year... generally.
Wild Thing
5 year old buck +
Have to disagree with you on this one Baker...but to each his own.
Teeth continue to wear beyond age 2....and everything is relative. Not exact for sure but accurate enough.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Of course teeth wear beyond the age of 2, but the ability of even a trained biologist to deduce age of older class bucks (anything beyond 3 or 4) goes down dramatically. I recall some old study where the same jawbones were passed between multiple biologist from the same state for evaluation. The variance in age estimated between biologists increased with age as I recall.
To be honest, very few of us have enough land under management to need that much resolution in age from harvested deer. (Baker may be an exception). Our ability to use the information is limited. Field judging is even less accurate then jawbone reading. For most, the classification of yearling, 1 1/2, 2 1/2, 3 1/2, and older are sufficient from a management perspective.
Thanks,
Jack
Our deer weights are pretty consistent. I think because we have no ag in the area and we are in an area of infertile soil, they just dont vary all that much. I have worked many check stations and weighed hundreds of deer - maybe a 1000. And out of all those, one topped 200 lbs. I would say on average, the weight of our bucks vary about 20 lbs across each age class. I am no way inferring I would age deer strictly off weight - or antlers - or body shape - and be really confident. But taking all of it into consideration - along with tooth wear - I am pretty confident, then. We killed three bucks this year that I had guessed their age before looking at tooth wear. I had four years history with one, and numerous pictures of the other two. I had estimated their age from camera pictures, then we weighed them before dressing. The weights of each one were within weight parameters for our deer’s age, and finally, tooth wear supported my estimate of all three of them. My estimate of a deer’s age before I ever look at their teeth is right more than wrong. But that is using 45 years of history with deer in my area. If I went to kansas and tried to age one, I would expect to not be close.I agree with everything SwampCat...except for the weight corresponding with age. Generally speaking perhaps, but not really anything you can hang your hat on - at least on our property here in Upper Michigan. We have weighed and aged every deer we have tagged here since we owned our property - well over 100 deer, both bucks and does. Weights have varied considerably. Of course, an October buck is going to generally have much more fat on its body than a December buck, but I have found that deer are pretty much like humans - some are just a little bigger or smaller than average.
Our biggest 3 1/3 year old buck dressed out at exactly 200#...smallest 3 year old dressed out at 135#. The only 5 year old we ever killed dressed out at 130 something (December).
Same thing with does. Our biggest ever dressed out at 127# and she was 10+ years old...(still looking for the mythical 200# doe
BTW - The last bear we killed weighed 215# and was aged at 2 years old also.
SWIFFY
5 year old buck +
I think that finding a deers sheds for multiple years will give you a pretty darn good idea how old he is! We have found many years of sheds off some bucks and then sent in the jaws in off the deads and had ages all over the map. Find 8 years of sheds and them and the biologists age him at 3 1/2 LOL. Its a crapshoot.
I know one thing, everyone wants to think their deer is older than it usually is! In my area, if youre going to tell me you killed a 6 1/2 yr old buck... well you better have 4 years of pictures or sheds to back it up. 95% of the time its a respectable 3 yr old, and hunters just cant wrap their mind around that.
I know one thing, everyone wants to think their deer is older than it usually is! In my area, if youre going to tell me you killed a 6 1/2 yr old buck... well you better have 4 years of pictures or sheds to back it up. 95% of the time its a respectable 3 yr old, and hunters just cant wrap their mind around that.
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