additional questions on standing rye plots

[phil@thesidehill]

i tagged this on to the end of gunther's post about more or less the same topic....but i have a few other questions and figured i'd get a separate thread going.

i'm in a similar boat to gunther in terms of what to do with the rye. I am strip plotting a basic but modified LC cereal/legume mix and LC brassica mix. I am pretty much a "no till" operation as a matter of lack of equipment. The entire plot is just over 1/3 acre. The strips of each component are about 7000 sq ft each. Last fall's cereal/legume mix (rye, oats, med red clover, crimson clover) is now predominately rye and crimson with some MRC as well...not sure how but it appears the crimson did not winter kill. My rye is about 24-26" tall and seed heads are forming and the crimson is blooming. These rye/crimson strips will be planted to the brassica mix (PTT, GHFR, DER) in mid July. I dont have access to a cultipacker, but i have access to a walk behind DR brush mower. I'm kinda thinking i need to terminate the rye sooner than later so that it can begin to break dry out and break down so i can mow/spray the remaining clover at the end of June/beginning of July and then broadcast my brassicas into the thatch. I have had plenty of success previously broadcasting brassicas into pretty thick killed sod/thatch, but i think the rye may form too thick of a thatch. I am also not sure what to expect in terms of the allelopathic tendency of the rye?

 

[wiscwhip]

First things first, are you ok with volunteer rye in those areas? Potentially, LOTS of volunteer rye? If not, terminate before the seed heads become viable. A dose of cleth will kill the rye(and other grasses) and leave the clover.

 

[phil@thesidehill]

First things first, are you ok with volunteer rye in those areas? Potentially, LOTS of volunteer rye? If not, terminate before the seed heads become viable. A dose of cleth will kill the rye(and other grasses) and leave the clover.

I'd prefer not to have the volunteer rye....i want the brassicas to dominate those strips...and i will have rye right next to them in the fall planted cereal/legume strips. Will the cleth be effective on the rye if it is already starting to develop seed heads ie reproductive growth stage versus vegetative? Can i mow the rye to terminate instead of a chemical burn down?

 

[phil@thesidehill]

Also looking for some guidance on what to look for in terms of rye's growth stage that indicates viable seed being set....or more importantly about to be set?

 

[wiscwhip]

Mowing would likely be cheaper and just as effective if not maybe more so. You had better get on it though, it doesn't take long for the seed to become viable after it starts to form on the tops. Some of the seeds nearer the bottom of the seed head may become viable before the ones at the very top. It is usually preferable to mow it in the late boot stage before it heads or flowers if you do not desire any volunteer rye in those areas.

 

[SD51555]

 

[phil@thesidehill]

View attachment 5116

thanks SD...i found the same image too. based on that image i would say the rye strips are 50-60% in the 10.1 to 10.5 stage.

 

[BJE80]

Wouldn't a little rye mixed in with your brassicas be a good thing? I'm trying to understand this. If you spray and kill the above ground stuff so what if some rye comes in with the brassicas.

 

[phil@thesidehill]

Wouldn't a little rye mixed in with your brassicas be a good thing? I'm trying to understand this. If you spray and kill the above ground stuff so what if some rye comes in with the brassicas.

if there was a way to guarantee a "little" rye..then it would be a sure thing. I'm far from one who likes "clean" plots. I just dont want to have too much competetion from the rye with my brassicas....and since the strips directly adjacent to the brassicas will have rye in them i really dont see it as a benefit. I need more production from the brassicas more than i will need additional rye. My entire hunting strategy for this property revolves around having the most attractive food source for late october through january....which from what i have seen over the years comes from the brassicas. the cereal grain/legume strips balance out the food availability through out other parts of the hunting season and beyond...in addition to the soil benefits and plant diversity. I like to have something growing in the soil and feeding deer at all times.

 

[gunther89]

Would deer eat the rye heads come fall/winter? I've thought about just broadcasting brassicas into a standing rye plot and leave the rye standing. It would provide cover when the deer are feeding in the plots but idk how well the brassicas would grow without a ton of sunlight. If deer ate the heads, it would provide some food that is above the snow cover.

 

[Riggsgwp->]

Deer eat the seed heads in the winter. I see it every year on my place. Standing rye is great summer cover but by late fall it will be knocked down.

 

[scott44]

Last year the 4th of July weekend I rolled down my rye/clover and sprayed it the same time. I first broadcast the brassicas into it then rolled and sprayed it. This is the first time I had done this and it turned out pretty good, the rye had already gone to seed but it didn't seem to hurt the brassicas.

 

[wiscwhip]

We allowed our rye to volunteer every chance we got, but getting anything else to grow in that low OM, low ph, sandpit was such a challenge during July and August that we just wanted to have something green in there besides sandburrs. We would usually broadcast ppt, rape, radish, and sometimes clover into the dead rye thatch and newly sprouting rye and either drag over it with a lightweight chainlink drag or just drive over it with the ATV.