Stock Market is the bottom in?

[S.T.Fanatic]

I am 45 and always assumed there would be no ss. Still not counting on it but I think there is a chance. They just print money for everything now so it should continue on. Once the boomers are gone it should be able to be funded without over time on the printing press.

The problem with this is that there isn't going to be enough taxpayers to fund it. There are to many people making way to little for them to even come close to being able to survive off of SS.

Can someone answer me this, Can a lifelong welfare recipient receive SS benefits when they are the appropriate age even though they have never paid into SS?

 

[FarmerDan]

All of this reminds me of what one of my few mentor's taught me in about one minute. He said, "Most great fortunes were built on high leverage. So were most great bankruptcies!"

We might adopt that by removing leverage and adding speculation. Say what you want, but investing has disappeared and has been replaced by the roulette wheel. Maybe you'll be lucky. Maybe you won't. I've been both. And, there were times when I was good at investing, riding a good trend and exiting a bad one. Right now, I'm bad at investing because I missed the whole updraft. Too much risk and unknow for me. I've been in and out of oil. While I cleared a couple tens-of-thousands in short order, I got out while the rocket was still, well, rocketing! Only a few regrets.

Look, if you have a long time horizon think about this. ->
Twenty or twenty five years ago while I was pondering retirement and trying to develop a means to that end I could never have imagined what we are experiencing at the moment. Interest rates near zero? Inflation at, arguably, low levels. A day when oil prices approached zero? Ridiculous. Stock trades are zero cost. All stupid conversations when I was a young man. Is today what will be normal for the future? Answer that question and you will know what to do.

My fear is outliving my money and seemingly I have enough. My dumb advisor, a really smart man, ran some scenarios and concluded I have enough to live to 109. That sounds comforting - today. Maybe. But, how much is it going to cost to get there? More than I have assuming I want to go there! Yikes. Modern medicine is out of control from a cost perspective, or, maybe we are out of control on what it is we think we should expect.

So many unknowns. For all of us, no matter, what age or time horizon - we don't know what we don't know. If history is a guide, it will come fast and furious. I'm sure I'll be standing on the beach when the tsunami hits.

 

[greekfreak]

The USD hasn't been backed by gold since 1973.

I stand corrected.

 

[FarmerDan]

The problem with this is that there isn't going to be enough taxpayers to fund it. There are to many people making way to little for them to even come close to being able to survive off of SS.

Can someone answer me this, Can a lifelong welfare recipient receive SS benefits when they are the appropriate age even though they have never paid into SS?

I'm not a conspiracy theorist nor a skeptic. It might seem so after I say this, but I think its true given a moment to think about it. Social Security is smoke and mirrors. Back in the 1930's it was brought forth as a government backed pension for little old ladies who were outliving their husbands. The life expectancy of men was something in the early 60's while the ladies were living to a couple years past 65. Given the norms and roles of the day, the widows had little. They got a subsistence existence from Social Security when they reached their 65th birthday - with an expectation of another two years of life - on average. Now?

Anyhow, SS become a great way for politicians to win votes by expanding the payouts. And, for awhile it worked by kicking the can down the road. The question today is, can we keep doing it given the time value of money and expanding earnings/wealth in the hands of a few. There are ways to do it - with smoke and mirrors. The real value of SS has been in decline for a number of years. Oh, it's still viable and if the age at which you can receive benefits increases while reducing COLAs it can go on - at some level by some name. Yes, there are changes needed but neither party wants to touch it for what the other can make of it regardless of the 'goodness' of the possible changes.

Payouts are based on your earnings. No earnings means no contributions to the Social Security Trust Fund and no payout. I think it takes 35 years of contributions. Wages are inflated to recent dollars and your distant earning are weighted higher than your current earning.

Correction: To earn a Social Security payment you need 40 quarters of employment (10 years / 4 q per year). The amount is based on 35 years of earning. A year with no earnings earns zero in the calculation.

 

[bwoods11]

I think many of you are right on social security. Do not count on it. I certainly do not. However, I would love to see the President that tries to take it away! Good luck with that.

 

[Tree Spud]

It is my understanding that they can not physically tap into the network to track how much you have/make/buy/sell. They would have to mandate all cryptocurrency a security (which admittedly portrays failure on their behalf to regulate their own currency; USD).

Even if they did make it a federal security, they can not track your assets. IF you do it right. There are some exchanges that are not decentralized and your information would likely be obtainable.

Only option left, make it illegal. I do not doubt this would happen but again, if you want, it would be impossible for big brother to find out what you have.

This is where you lose me on things like this ...

First, I do not have an MBA from a top school in investment banking. Our advisor can quickly get my eyes rolling when he starts to talk about some of the higher level bond & investment instruments he has us in. Crypto is another level. I have learned to hire people smarter than me that I trust to handle things like investing, plumbing, & electrical work.

Second, you are stating that you can hide assets & gains from the Gov't. Anytime you intentionally, or unintentionally through lack of knowledge or understanding, hide assets/gains from the Gov't, time to get nervous. I don't buy the argument that the Gov't cannot find out what you have made income or profits. If the upside is what you say it is, do you really think the Gov't will ignore? If income is being made or profits realized, the Govt will find a way to track & tax.

Third, you said OG's role their eyes at this stuff. As someone becoming an OG, the reason you develop a healthy bit of skepticism where money and investing is involved, is because you have seen a few things so you know a few things. I have seen enough of the Madoff, Ponzi, Belfort, etc. scams to know that people can get snake charmed into only seeing the upside. Greed tends to blind people to understanding risk or downside.

I am not telling others to avoid, but you are only promoting the upside based on assumptions & circumstances that can quickly change.

 

[chummer]

This is where you lose me on things like this ...

First, I do not have an MBA from a top school in investment banking. Our advisor can quickly get my eyes rolling when he starts to talk about some of the higher level bond & investment instruments he has us in. Crypto is another level. I have learned to hire people smarter than me that I trust to handle things like investing, plumbing, & electrical work.

Second, you are stating that you can hide assets & gains from the Gov't. Anytime you intentionally, or unintentionally through lack of knowledge or understanding, hide assets/gains from the Gov't, time to get nervous. I don't buy the argument that the Gov't cannot find out what you have made income or profits. If the upside is what you say it is, do you really think the Gov't will ignore? If income is being made or profits realized, the Govt will find a way to track & tax.

Third, you said OG's role their eyes at this stuff. As someone becoming an OG, the reason you develop a healthy bit of skepticism where money and investing is involved, is because you have seen a few things so you know a few things. I have seen enough of the Madoff, Ponzi, Belfort, etc. scams to know that people can get snake charmed into only seeing the upside. Greed tends to blind people to understanding risk or downside.

I am not telling others to avoid, but you are only promoting the upside based on assumptions & circumstances that can quickly change.

I asked him to sell me the upside. My fault.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

 

[Bowsnbucks]

We might adopt that by removing leverage and adding speculation. Say what you want, but investing has disappeared and has been replaced by the roulette wheel.

So true Farmer Dan!! This is very much what Bogle was saying in the last 10 - 15 years of his life. Too may people looking for the "quick buck" which roils markets and cause more volatility than would otherwise be the case. Bogle often referred to today's markets as "gambling." He used terms like "crap-shoot" and "croupier" instead of "investor."

One thing that Bogle, Buffet, Ben Graham and other Nobel economists have advised is to keep your investment costs LOW. A 1% investment expense ratio may not seem like much, but over time - with compounding taken into effect - that 1% can TAKE anywhere from $50,000 to 150,000 out of the avg. person's pocket.

Also making the picture foggier is the fact that tax laws and financial regulatory laws change with political whims. We ALL are trying to hit moving targets. For REAL financial security in retirement, there should be laws & regulations put in place and made PERMANENT regarding retirement investing. Then folks can formulate plans that won't be ripped out from under them by ANY POLITICIAN - regardless of party affiliation. Stability makes too much sense ............................. so it'll probably never happen.

 

[SD51555]

Crypto is a great idea, but it cannot become mainstream, ever. It would topple the power structure of the world. Right now, the fed can write checks to their buddies with a few nifty hops, skips, and jumps. They can't do that with fixed crypto. There is no deficit spending, no expansionary monetary policy, no ability to track for tax evasion and other illicit purposes, no ability to skim it if you cut out the banks, lenders, credit cards, market makers and so on.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

This is where you lose me on things like this ...

First, I do not have an MBA from a top school in investment banking. Our advisor can quickly get my eyes rolling when he starts to talk about some of the higher level bond & investment instruments he has us in. Crypto is another level. I have learned to hire people smarter than me that I trust to handle things like investing, plumbing, & electrical work.

Second, you are stating that you can hide assets & gains from the Gov't. Anytime you intentionally, or unintentionally through lack of knowledge or understanding, hide assets/gains from the Gov't, time to get nervous. I don't buy the argument that the Gov't cannot find out what you have made income or profits. If the upside is what you say it is, do you really think the Gov't will ignore? If income is being made or profits realized, the Govt will find a way to track & tax.

Third, you said OG's role their eyes at this stuff. As someone becoming an OG, the reason you develop a healthy bit of skepticism where money and investing is involved, is because you have seen a few things so you know a few things. I have seen enough of the Madoff, Ponzi, Belfort, etc. scams to know that people can get snake charmed into only seeing the upside. Greed tends to blind people to understanding risk or downside.

I am not telling others to avoid, but you are only promoting the upside based on assumptions & circumstances that can quickly change.

I'll let greekfreak respond for himself, but I can address the anonymity of bitcoin at least. There are definitely some exchanges (and other cryptocurrencies) that can be fully anonymous, but bitcoin for the most part is not very anonymous at all. Literally every transaction is tracked and it isn't all that difficult for the feds to track who is sending what. The largest and most reliable exchanges send you a 1099 at year's end and are sharing that information with the IRS. There is some lively discussion in the crypto world about decentralization of currencies, but for the most part, I think a large portion of people buying into bitcoin want it to be at least somewhat regulated to ensure its long term health as an investment vehicle. There are congress men and women who share that mindset and I won't be surprised at all when there is some healthy regulation created to facilitate bitcoin's growth. Like I said, too many powerful people have too much invested in it at this point to allow it to become illegal over night.

 

[greekfreak]

This is where you lose me on things like this ...

First, I do not have an MBA from a top school in investment banking. Our advisor can quickly get my eyes rolling when he starts to talk about some of the higher level bond & investment instruments he has us in. Crypto is another level. I have learned to hire people smarter than me that I trust to handle things like investing, plumbing, & electrical work.

Second, you are stating that you can hide assets & gains from the Gov't. Anytime you intentionally, or unintentionally through lack of knowledge or understanding, hide assets/gains from the Gov't, time to get nervous. I don't buy the argument that the Gov't cannot find out what you have made income or profits. If the upside is what you say it is, do you really think the Gov't will ignore? If income is being made or profits realized, the Govt will find a way to track & tax.

Third, you said OG's role their eyes at this stuff. As someone becoming an OG, the reason you develop a healthy bit of skepticism where money and investing is involved, is because you have seen a few things so you know a few things. I have seen enough of the Madoff, Ponzi, Belfort, etc. scams to know that people can get snake charmed into only seeing the upside. Greed tends to blind people to understanding risk or downside.

I am not telling others to avoid, but you are only promoting the upside based on assumptions & circumstances that can quickly change.

Tree Spud,

Putting me under the fire! I love it. There are always two sides to everything so I will do my best to answer on behalf on the downside. Also, given it is labeled a commodity I do not think you can be taxed until you take profit in USD.

Before I start there, I need to clear up the decentralization aspect of crypto. When you sign up for the right cryptocurrency wallet you do not use your name, email, SS number, or any personal information for that matter. The only way I can be linked to my assets are if:
1. I take profits from my account and they make their long journey back to my bank (USD).
2. Somehow, my computer or phone (the only affiliation between me and my assets) are compromised. That does not sound legal but I am sure it happens
This can be avoided by having what is called a cold wallet. An offline device that stores your hundreds of codes that are comprised of your wallets and exchanges. Your accounts will always balance at 0 and your offline device holds the keys to you wallets.

I would say there are three large downfalls of cryptocurrency.

1. You are right, one day the government will attempt to put their hand in it. How they will do it, I am not sure. Tax the retailers? I don't know. I am not affiliated with my account so I do not think the IRS can look me up. I will let you know next tax season. If they manage to find out (again, I do not take profits, yet.) then I have no clue.

2. Hackers..... They exist everywhere. The security behind crypto exchanges is pretty tight but it is definitely a risk. The more you want for security the more you get. You can actually store your crypto offline in a ledger wallet. They typically look like USB drives but some have touch screens or look like calculators.

3. Poor investments; similar to stocks, crypto has it's share of poor investments. It is all about what the platform is being used for. Some cryptocurrencies are USD related. Their only purpose is to mimic the USD and be a secondary way to have a bank account. Others specialize in peer to peer transactions. You buy me coffee and I send you 0.0000001 bitcoin (not exact but close). Others were created for reasons that are unknown, have a poor foundation, and or the team behind it had benevolent intentions. These coins or tokens can disappear overnight. They are gone. Almost like they never existed.

Skepticism is a great quality. I am very skeptical myself I would like to think. I do not have an MBA or anything fancy. Just an associates degree in marketing. I talk with my investor all the time and I understand because I took the time to read up. They are smart people, but typically you need to carry the reigns here and there. It is a scary idea; putting money into the some online entity that some asian guy made 12 years ago. If you would have bought $10 back then, you would own 166 bitcoin that would be worth $6,166,666 today. That in itself is scary. It also is worth looking into; even if it is just a little bit. Granted you do not have to buy entire bitcoins. You can buy little baby pieces as small as $5

 

[greekfreak]

I'll let greekfreak respond for himself, but I can address the anonymity of bitcoin at least. There are definitely some exchanges (and other cryptocurrencies) that can be fully anonymous, but bitcoin for the most part is not very anonymous at all. Literally every transaction is tracked and it isn't all that difficult for the feds to track who is sending what. The largest and most reliable exchanges send you a 1099 at year's end and are sharing that information with the IRS. There is some lively discussion in the crypto world about decentralization of currencies, but for the most part, I think a large portion of people buying into bitcoin want it to be at least somewhat regulated to ensure its long term health as an investment vehicle. There are congress men and women who share that mindset and I won't be surprised at all when there is some healthy regulation created to facilitate bitcoin's growth. Like I said, too many powerful people have too much invested in it at this point to allow it to become illegal over night.

Spot on, some exchanges are moving in this direction. Robinhood, PayPal, etc. are some of the more common ones. Your transactions on these sights can be tracked. Money leaves you bank account and goes to robinhood, robinhood records your transactions. There are still exchanges that support %100 anonymity. These are more complex in terms of buying and selling with USD. Not as easy and no way to link a bank account.

 

[Mortenson]

I decided to gamble on a few hundred shares of AMC. My cost was about where it settled at, although I see it went up a bunch in the afterhours, which I know means nothing. I doubt I'll make any money, never been a good stock picker. Not even a very good mutual fund picker, going back to the high flying days of Janus when they eventually got clobbered. It does seem pretty criminal how some of the platforms kiboshed trading on theses stocks today. Hope the retail peons get the last laugh. Probably won't though.

Well I'm out of AMC. A few days ago I could've sold for a double, but who likes paying too much in taxes? I pocketed a few hundred bucks and had a little fun. Like I said, never been great at stocks, particularly the timing end of it! My corn made some money today, however.

 

[Gator]

Tree Spud,

Putting me under the fire! I love it. There are always two sides to everything so I will do my best to answer on behalf on the downside. Also, given it is labeled a commodity I do not think you can be taxed until you take profit in USD.

Before I start there, I need to clear up the decentralization aspect of crypto. When you sign up for the right cryptocurrency wallet you do not use your name, email, SS number, or any personal information for that matter. The only way I can be linked to my assets are if:
1. I take profits from my account and they make their long journey back to my bank (USD).
2. Somehow, my computer or phone (the only affiliation between me and my assets) are compromised. That does not sound legal but I am sure it happens
This can be avoided by having what is called a cold wallet. An offline device that stores your hundreds of codes that are comprised of your wallets and exchanges. Your accounts will always balance at 0 and your offline device holds the keys to you wallets.

I would say there are three large downfalls of cryptocurrency.

1. You are right, one day the government will attempt to put their hand in it. How they will do it, I am not sure. Tax the retailers? I don't know. I am not affiliated with my account so I do not think the IRS can look me up. I will let you know next tax season. If they manage to find out (again, I do not take profits, yet.) then I have no clue.

2. Hackers..... They exist everywhere. The security behind crypto exchanges is pretty tight but it is definitely a risk. The more you want for security the more you get. You can actually store your crypto offline in a ledger wallet. They typically look like USB drives but some have touch screens or look like calculators.

3. Poor investments; similar to stocks, crypto has it's share of poor investments. It is all about what the platform is being used for. Some cryptocurrencies are USD related. Their only purpose is to mimic the USD and be a secondary way to have a bank account. Others specialize in peer to peer transactions. You buy me coffee and I send you 0.0000001 bitcoin (not exact but close). Others were created for reasons that are unknown, have a poor foundation, and or the team behind it had benevolent intentions. These coins or tokens can disappear overnight. They are gone. Almost like they never existed.

Skepticism is a great quality. I am very skeptical myself I would like to think. I do not have an MBA or anything fancy. Just an associates degree in marketing. I talk with my investor all the time and I understand because I took the time to read up. They are smart people, but typically you need to carry the reigns here and there. It is a scary idea; putting money into the some online entity that some asian guy made 12 years ago. If you would have bought $10 back then, you would own 166 bitcoin that would be worth $6,166,666 today. That in itself is scary. It also is worth looking into; even if it is just a little bit. Granted you do not have to buy entire bitcoins. You can buy little baby pieces as small as $5

How do you even buy Bitcoin?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[chummer]

Well I'm out of AMC. A few days ago I could've sold for a double, but who likes paying too much in taxes? I pocketed a few hundred bucks and had a little fun. Like I said, never been great at stocks, particularly the timing end of it! My corn made some money today, however.

Still hanging in. I will go to 25 or I will buy enough at 2 to get even at 5.

 

[yoderjac]

All currency is based on trust. The only reason the "gold backing" of the dollar had any value was people trusted that gold was exchangeable with others for goods. The dollar is backed by the US government. The reason the US dollar has value is because folks believe that folks will exchange goods for it now and in the future. The reason the dollar is more stable than the won (North Korea) is that folks trust the US government will be around and support the dollar.

Most every stable currency is regulated (and manipulated) by a central body (usually a central bank), Some less stable countries have banned the use of Bitcoin to protect their currency. Since there is no strong government behind bitcoin, the risk is high. Because of the nature of bitcoin and how it is traded, it is a favorite for illicit transactions. This could make it a target of some governments law enforcement. Block chain, the technology Bitcoin is built on, is a solid technology today. Bitcoin miners are incentivized based on speed. Huge server farms consume lots of power focused on mining Bit Coin. Many of these are built in cold climates to reduce the cooling cost.

Technology changes, and often disruptively. What will all this R&D into quantum computing bring? What effect will this, or other technology advances, have on a technology based currency that is not backed by a solid government?

Trying to play the currency market in general, is not a conservative investment. Crypto currency is another level of risk. I'd suggest caution and making sure you understand the crypto currency market as well as the underlying technology it is built on if you plan to roll the dice!

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Chainsaw]

My hat is off to all of you guys who trade stocks and bitcoins and stuff. I have probably missed out on a lot not being a stock trader and it sounds very exciting. I do know though that there are other ways to be retired or actually semi retired. I stopped working around 2001. I didn't want to but my wife had had enough, I could have made it another year or two. We live off of Social Security and a couple of half pensions and a couple of cottages that we rent out along Lake Ontario. We call the cottage rents "our beer money" although we don't actually drink beer. They take care of our few extras. We are easy keepers and not travelers. We are happy though and our savings have actually increased over the years so I guess you could say we are gaining, not by much but still gaining. The savings account since we don't use it doesn't really matter at this time. For some it would take a lot of bucks to retire; for others it won't take anywhere near what people talk about.

So from my uniformed and cautious world I see you stock trader guys as adventurers and I enjoy reading every post on this thread even though I likely will not become a player. That bitcoin stuff though reminds me of how Tulips used to be a hot commodity. It was crazy what tulips went for and then suddenly they were worth nothing. Conversely if our land was suddenly worth nothing, it wouldn't matter because it is not for sale anyhow.

 

[Tree Spud]

My hat is off to all of you guys who trade stocks and bitcoins and stuff. I have probably missed out on a lot not being a stock trader and it sounds very exciting. I do know though that there are other ways to be retired or actually semi retired. I stopped working around 2001. I didn't want to but my wife had had enough, I could have made it another year or two. We live off of Social Security and a couple of half pensions and a couple of cottages that we rent out along Lake Ontario. We call the cottage rents "our beer money" although we don't actually drink beer. They take care of our few extras. We are easy keepers and not travelers. We are happy though and our savings have actually increased over the years so I guess you could say we are gaining, not by much but still gaining. The savings account since we don't use it doesn't really matter at this time. For some it would take a lot of bucks to retire; for others it won't take anywhere near what people talk about.

So from my uniformed and cautious world I see you stock trader guys as adventurers and I enjoy reading every post on this thread even though I likely will not become a player. That bitcoin stuff though reminds me of how Tulips used to be a hot commodity. It was crazy what tulips went for and then suddenly they were worth nothing. Conversely if our land was suddenly worth nothing, it wouldn't matter because it is not for sale anyhow.

Chainsaw ... sounds like you and your lovely partner have found a good place to be in life.

Happy for you and working to get there myself.

 

[Tree Spud]

Tree Spud,

Putting me under the fire! I love it. There are always two sides to everything so I will do my best to answer on behalf on the downside. Also, given it is labeled a commodity I do not think you can be taxed until you take profit in USD.

Before I start there, I need to clear up the decentralization aspect of crypto. When you sign up for the right cryptocurrency wallet you do not use your name, email, SS number, or any personal information for that matter. The only way I can be linked to my assets are if:
1. I take profits from my account and they make their long journey back to my bank (USD).
2. Somehow, my computer or phone (the only affiliation between me and my assets) are compromised. That does not sound legal but I am sure it happens
This can be avoided by having what is called a cold wallet. An offline device that stores your hundreds of codes that are comprised of your wallets and exchanges. Your accounts will always balance at 0 and your offline device holds the keys to you wallets.

I would say there are three large downfalls of cryptocurrency.

1. You are right, one day the government will attempt to put their hand in it. How they will do it, I am not sure. Tax the retailers? I don't know. I am not affiliated with my account so I do not think the IRS can look me up. I will let you know next tax season. If they manage to find out (again, I do not take profits, yet.) then I have no clue.

2. Hackers..... They exist everywhere. The security behind crypto exchanges is pretty tight but it is definitely a risk. The more you want for security the more you get. You can actually store your crypto offline in a ledger wallet. They typically look like USB drives but some have touch screens or look like calculators.

3. Poor investments; similar to stocks, crypto has it's share of poor investments. It is all about what the platform is being used for. Some cryptocurrencies are USD related. Their only purpose is to mimic the USD and be a secondary way to have a bank account. Others specialize in peer to peer transactions. You buy me coffee and I send you 0.0000001 bitcoin (not exact but close). Others were created for reasons that are unknown, have a poor foundation, and or the team behind it had benevolent intentions. These coins or tokens can disappear overnight. They are gone. Almost like they never existed.

Skepticism is a great quality. I am very skeptical myself I would like to think. I do not have an MBA or anything fancy. Just an associates degree in marketing. I talk with my investor all the time and I understand because I took the time to read up. They are smart people, but typically you need to carry the reigns here and there. It is a scary idea; putting money into the some online entity that some asian guy made 12 years ago. If you would have bought $10 back then, you would own 166 bitcoin that would be worth $6,166,666 today. That in itself is scary. It also is worth looking into; even if it is just a little bit. Granted you do not have to buy entire bitcoins. You can buy little baby pieces as small as $5

What is the definition of a pessimist ... an experienced optimist ...

 

[roymunson]

My hat is off to all of you guys who trade stocks and bitcoins and stuff. I have probably missed out on a lot not being a stock trader and it sounds very exciting. I do know though that there are other ways to be retired or actually semi retired. I stopped working around 2001. I didn't want to but my wife had had enough, I could have made it another year or two. We live off of Social Security and a couple of half pensions and a couple of cottages that we rent out along Lake Ontario. We call the cottage rents "our beer money" although we don't actually drink beer. They take care of our few extras. We are easy keepers and not travelers. We are happy though and our savings have actually increased over the years so I guess you could say we are gaining, not by much but still gaining. The savings account since we don't use it doesn't really matter at this time. For some it would take a lot of bucks to retire; for others it won't take anywhere near what people talk about.

So from my uniformed and cautious world I see you stock trader guys as adventurers and I enjoy reading every post on this thread even though I likely will not become a player. That bitcoin stuff though reminds me of how Tulips used to be a hot commodity. It was crazy what tulips went for and then suddenly they were worth nothing. Conversely if our land was suddenly worth nothing, it wouldn't matter because it is not for sale anyhow.

That point of view makes you dangerous. If you're easy to please, you don't need to go make a big income. I'm probably a mix of the 2. I want nice hunting things, but the thought of 2 months in the french riviera makes my skin crawl. Even if I could afford it.

This thread got me thinking and I updated my net worth spreadsheet that my accountant gave me a couple years back. Not all liquid assets, but I'm probably closer to where I need to be than I'd thought. As long as I'm happy to "vacation" in a tree and not in Patagonia.