What's new

driveway

hunts_with_stick

5 year old buck +
So does anyone do anything special to "put in a driveway" or road? As mentioned my first 5 acres or so if field (slowly being turned into oak forest and an orachard. Anyway, I have a figure 8 that I basically drive to park to hunt and to water/plant trees what not. I made it through this year without getting stuck despite some wet conditions. It is a hill coming up to the road. What can I do so that I don't have to worry about getting stuck? I have an awd durango and subaru outback. I'd like to put in some sort of rock road, but it looks to be real expensive. I would eventually like to put a cabin in somewhere there.
 

SD51555

5 year old buck +
You'd wanna scrape off the topsoil, raise it up and crown it and top it with gravel, if you wanna do it right. The other option is just staying out if it's wet. I had that problem at my place. I can germinate cattails when it's a wet season. I wanna be there too much in the spring, so I wrote the check and got all the access and driveway done right. Otherwise you're locked out or fighting mud.

If it's wet enough, get yourself a small fish pond outta the deal.
 

hunts_with_stick

5 year old buck +
its not swampy at all. its some sort of hayfield. I barely tore up any of the grass (or hay or whatever). How much did that cost you and how long was it?
 

MRBB

5 year old buck +
just like building any road, the BASE is what matters most, be it you dig it down and built it up, or you add enough base material on top and have a elevated road when done!

so typically you start with larger rocks, pack, add smaller and then top dress with what ever you want, be it crushed stone, road/asphalt milling, or even shale, do a good top dressing to the roads, plowing snow will remove and will over time have to be restored if you want to keep it smooth!
HOW think of a base comes down to a few factors, from type of soil your starting with slopes, water table, and what equipment you will be running up and down the road ,a s this is a big part to how well it will hold up /last or not!

as for adding a crown,
adding a crown to the road, help water drainage, but doesn't really add to support of the road way you have to have a base first or can be wasting your time, as if the base is week, you will always get ruts when ground is wet or soft from changing temps! causing you to always have to fix it to keep smooth or rut free!

yes a crown is for sure worth doing when doing the finishing side of things (same cane be said about having good drainage on the sides of the road/drive way, so water doesn't pond up and cause the base to get soft!



but again, HOW Long things last , comes down to the base layer!
and keep in mind, some folks do like to use under laying materials to help form a base, pending site and owners wants or views on if needed or not!
 

SD51555

5 year old buck +
its not swampy at all. its some sort of hayfield. I barely tore up any of the grass (or hay or whatever). How much did that cost you and how long was it?
My driveway is maybe 80 feet long, but I've also got a parking area, and had some trees ripped out and a small building pad made. They brought in a mountain of fill and gravel too. $9100 for all of that 3 years ago. I'd put that at maybe $15,000+ today the way prices seem to be going.

If you're thinking about putting a building there some day anyway, I'd just bite the bullet and hire a pro to get you what you need.
 

yoderjac

5 year old buck +
So does anyone do anything special to "put in a driveway" or road? As mentioned my first 5 acres or so if field (slowly being turned into oak forest and an orachard. Anyway, I have a figure 8 that I basically drive to park to hunt and to water/plant trees what not. I made it through this year without getting stuck despite some wet conditions. It is a hill coming up to the road. What can I do so that I don't have to worry about getting stuck? I have an awd durango and subaru outback. I'd like to put in some sort of rock road, but it looks to be real expensive. I would eventually like to put a cabin in somewhere there.

It is kind of funny. When I first started food plotting, I used a 2-bottom plow to turn the soil and then a tiller to chop it if to a nice fluffy seed bed. I have heavy clay soil. The plots did fine for a number of years but required more and more amendments and declined. When I talked about it on the old QDMA forum, a soil scientist was nice enough to help me out. The way he got my attention was that he sent me a link with instructions to build a road bed. It was the same formula I was using for food plots! You can see from my other posts I've evolved to min-til and no-till food plot methods.

So, having said that, I've been doing a lot of work on our logging roads lately. Having a clay base is a great place to start. Chopping up the clay finely to about plow depth and then packing it good is a good start. On very flat ground, you need a place for water to drain. Otherwise it pools on the road. When you drive through it when wet, you erode the road. You generally want to crown the road so water drains to both sides where you have ditches. If you have a slight slope to the ground in a place, rather than making a crown, you just slope the road so it drains in one lateral direction.

I've got rolling terrain too and hills present their own problem. Water will run down the road. As it gain momentum, it will erode the road and create ruts. The typical solution for this on logging roads is to put in water bars. They are an angular hump and ditch that angles across the road so water drains off the road before it gains too much momentum. The steepness of the road will largely govern how many and the spacing between water bars. These are OK if they don't get much use. However, our hunters don't creep over these like they should. Eventually the wear down the hump. This year, I got a mini-excavator (JD 35G) and used it to refresh the water bars. I decided to try something new. I made the dips deeper than normal and filled them with quarry stone. Hopefully the relative water infiltration between the stone and my clay will cause the water to drain properly. Our hunter's pickup trucks won't have the dip then hump. They will just have a slight hump and hopefully this will make the waterbars last longer.

If I had the money, I'd top dress with quarry stone or crush and run.

I also just build a barn on our retirement property where we will eventually put a house. I use the mini-excavator to get that road draining how I want. It is a pretty flat area. I'm now working to clear a hedge row along side the driveway. It has some quite large cedar trees but it has grown up with tree of heaven, multiflora rose, and Virginia creeper which has strangled them. Once I get rid of the invasive stuff in that hedge row, I plan to surface the driveway.

I was going to top dress it with stone and crush and run, but a neighbor's boyfriend convinced me to take a deep dive into millings. Right now, they are on the top of my list. I'm hoping to experiment with them next summer in the parking are near the barn. If that works out, I plan to use them to dress the driveway.

Thanks,

Jack
 

MRBB

5 year old buck +
millings work better than crushed stone or gravel, all the more so if you get sow and plow the road/drive ways
they pack tighter and don't seem to push away as fast as crushed stone or and last WAY longer than just gravel , which will really get moved about as you plow
as a fact if you can get fine ground millings, you can almost get a paved like surface if you work it right, there are many ways to get this
from as simple as putting down in summer time on warm/HOT days and spraying with some diesel fuel, and packing, as it dry's it will form almost solid like surface
I have worked dirt /gravel and crushed stone driveways on farms and other properties, some a few miles long, and nothing has held up as well as fine/double ground road millings
sad part is, there not easy to come by any more, EPA and other environmental restrictions prohibit them from being sold or used in many places(not to mention many road paving company's recycle it, so they won't give away or even sell it)
yrs ago they could be had free, my last tri axle load(2 weeks ago) ran me 250 bucks and it was real chunky millings, sucks for a top finish, but if you need a road way fast that works OK< that is if the base is fairly solid to start with!
when you have chunky millings, having the thick layer allows the larger pieces to get push into to firm things up, but plowing snow and frozen thawing of ground will some times life the larger pieces to get moved when plowing!
if given the option, for a top dressing , I would always use fine/double ground millings if I could get them, for a FAIR price, there even worth extra $$ over crushed /unwashed stone due to ho ell it lasts
 

yoderjac

5 year old buck +
millings work better than crushed stone or gravel, all the more so if you get sow and plow the road/drive ways
they pack tighter and don't seem to push away as fast as crushed stone or and last WAY longer than just gravel , which will really get moved about as you plow
as a fact if you can get fine ground millings, you can almost get a paved like surface if you work it right, there are many ways to get this
from as simple as putting down in summer time on warm/HOT days and spraying with some diesel fuel, and packing, as it dry's it will form almost solid like surface
I have worked dirt /gravel and crushed stone driveways on farms and other properties, some a few miles long, and nothing has held up as well as fine/double ground road millings
sad part is, there not easy to come by any more, EPA and other environmental restrictions prohibit them from being sold or used in many places(not to mention many road paving company's recycle it, so they won't give away or even sell it)
yrs ago they could be had free, my last tri axle load(2 weeks ago) ran me 250 bucks and it was real chunky millings, sucks for a top finish, but if you need a road way fast that works OK< that is if the base is fairly solid to start with!
when you have chunky millings, having the thick layer allows the larger pieces to get push into to firm things up, but plowing snow and frozen thawing of ground will some times life the larger pieces to get moved when plowing!
if given the option, for a top dressing , I would always use fine/double ground millings if I could get them, for a FAIR price, there even worth extra $$ over crushed /unwashed stone due to ho ell it lasts

That is what I've been learning. It is good to get confirmation. I'm told they are about 1/2 the cost of stone in my area.
 

MRBB

5 year old buck +
as for prices, this si what they run in my area!
a tri axle load of unwashed /modified stone runs about $350 a load, and millings run about 250-350 a load,, pending what type and well, who has them for sale, some guys want a arm and a leg(and most get em for free from job sites , the finer one;'s tend to bring higher price tags, but IMO are worth it )
Also, on the millings end, unless you know the seller really good, you , unfortunately never know what your getting, I mean you never know if your getting good nice fine ground one's or chunky one's, that's there only flaw
as chunky millings sort of suck for a top final finish, as there are too many big chunks, to get a really smooth tight packed surface
so, when ever buying millings, ASK if there double ground or not, as if not double ground, odds are they will be more chunky, unless you get the first few loads after they add new teeth to a cutter, then you get nice smooth ground millings for a while! HAHA!
 

yoderjac

5 year old buck +
Thanks for the info! The more I learn about these the better. I've got a 3.5 ton mini-excavator (35G) is that enough to pack them, or do I need to rent a roller?
 

ruskbucks

5 year old buck +
Very accurate info everybody gave. I'm a operating engineer, build roads, building pads and ponds for a living. How we build in WI. First strip topsoil down to clay/ sand. Grade. If you need to put fill in, only fill on solid ground with good dry material. If there is a soft spot cut it down to something solid, fill with larger stone such a 3 inch. We do a proof roll.which is running a loaded dump truck over sub grade to test for any soft spots before we put stone in. Top layer of stones should(1 1/4 or millings) have fines in it to lock the stone together. The fine also cause the water to shed off, otherwise it will soak in. A roller with vibes should be used if possible. Roll the sub grade then the stone. If putting in more than 6 inches it is good to put stone in lifts and roll each lift. There is nothing worse than spending all that money and get a crappy road. Best to do it right the first time and it should last forever.
 

MRBB

5 year old buck +
Thanks for the info! The more I learn about these the better. I've got a 3.5 ton mini-excavator (35G) is that enough to pack them, or do I need to rent a roller?
I have done many driveways and access roads, as for is your excavator heavy enough, yes and NO
and the reason I says yes and no, is, yes it will pack things pretty well, but by design there made to NOT have a lot of down force on tracks, there designed to have low ground pressure, so to stay on top of things
so, while its a rather heavy machine compared to a car, its not like a vehicles of equal weight on tires
if you have access to a vibrating roller, that will always be best, as its what its made for!

but I have gotten very good results with just using other things too, depends on how professional you need it maybe!

what I do at hunting camp and others up that way, is,
for finishing things, I been using a skid steer (tires not tracks) about 8500 lbs mine is!
and run it over things in a few directions, to get it packed to what it can
I then take a larger tired vehicle, be it a dump truck or my diesel pickup truck, and roll it that way
the problem with the way I do things, is its very time consuming, but I typically only do this , that way on smaller jobs>

other wise a roller comes in
but as I said, it can be done, using your excavator, you just won;t get the same packing as you would with a vibrating roller!

also keep in mind when your adding the base layer and adding more fill to things,
PACK each layer as you go, by running tracks over every inch you can, and go just a 2-3-4 inches at a time when doing so with the tracks, as if you put down too deep a layer at a time, you will NOT get it packed tight!

keep in mind when building things, HOW much weight will be using the road./drive way and well, be honest HOW often will you be using it
as if its gets rarely used, or you can wait to use it when conditions are BEST, you can get away with a lesser road

but if your going to plan LONG term, and plans will change, do it right the first time, be way cheaper in the long run!

and don't forget that a lot of gravel, millings and such, can be spread with the dump truck doing , if they have the skills to do so!, that can save a ton of time spent in a machine spreading it out
 

yoderjac

5 year old buck +
Thanks. I've already roughed in the driveway and worked on crowning it with sufficient draining. There is stone under sections that were soft, but most of it is clay. I worked a bit at a time to remove material from the sides and use it for crowning. It has been packed with my tractor and box blade as well as the 35G. During barn construction, we had a lot of construction vehicles, cement trucks, drilling rigs and such and it has held up well to them, so I think the base is sufficiently packed.

When we get rain, the top gets a little slippery, but I it drains well and I've had no rutting. I think all it needs is surfacing. Right now, I'm cleaning up a hedge row along side of it so I'm pushing debris down it and I want to finish that before surfacing.

I have a parking area behind the barn and an overhang on one side. I'm planning on putting a overhang on the other side eventually. I cemented in about 1/3 of the existing overhang for a patio area for the living space. The rest is just 56 stone.

My plan was to have the truck dump strips as it drives in the parking area for the initial spread. I would then use the tractor and box blade to do a move even spreading in the area before packing. I also planned to have them dump a pile that I can distribute under the overhang with the FEL on my tractor.

If I'm happy with the results here next summer, I'll use millings to surface the entire driveway (a bit over 1/4 mile) eventually. I plan to hold off doing that until our house is built as construction vehicles will be using it.

Does this sound like a reasonable approach?

Thanks,

Jack
 

ruskbucks

5 year old buck +
Thanks. I've already roughed in the driveway and worked on crowning it with sufficient draining. There is stone under sections that were soft, but most of it is clay. I worked a bit at a time to remove material from the sides and use it for crowning. It has been packed with my tractor and box blade as well as the 35G. During barn construction, we had a lot of construction vehicles, cement trucks, drilling rigs and such and it has held up well to them, so I think the base is sufficiently packed.

When we get rain, the top gets a little slippery, but I it drains well and I've had no rutting. I think all it needs is surfacing. Right now, I'm cleaning up a hedge row along side of it so I'm pushing debris down it and I want to finish that before surfacing.

I have a parking area behind the barn and an overhang on one side. I'm planning on putting a overhang on the other side eventually. I cemented in about 1/3 of the existing overhang for a patio area for the living space. The rest is just 56 stone.

My plan was to have the truck dump strips as it drives in the parking area for the initial spread. I would then use the tractor and box blade to do a move even spreading in the area before packing. I also planned to have them dump a pile that I can distribute under the overhang with the FEL on my tractor.

If I'm happy with the results here next summer, I'll use millings to surface the entire driveway (a bit over 1/4 mile) eventually. I plan to hold off doing that until our house is built as construction vehicles will be using it.

Does this sound like a reasonable approach?

Thanks,

Jack
Sounds good. If you had loaded cement trucks drive over your sub grade and it didn't pump or cause ruts you have a good drive. The worst thing you can do is drive on your sub grade after a heavy rain or in spring after the ground thaws. Make sure the drive is dry/solid before you stone it. If you have some topsoil you can save,use it on the sides of you drive. Slope it from your stone down, it really helps to hold your stone in the driveway where you want it instead of blowing out the sides. Also if someone drives of the driveway a little.
 

yoderjac

5 year old buck +
Sounds good. If you had loaded cement trucks drive over your sub grade and it didn't pump or cause ruts you have a good drive. The worst thing you can do is drive on your sub grade after a heavy rain or in spring after the ground thaws. Make sure the drive is dry/solid before you stone it. If you have some topsoil you can save,use it on the sides of you drive. Slope it from your stone down, it really helps to hold your stone in the driveway where you want it instead of blowing out the sides. Also if someone drives of the driveway a little.
Yes, we have clay logging roads at the pine farm with no surfacing. If no one ever drove on them when wet, there would be near zero maintenance. But, sometimes, you can't really avoid it. Fortunately my driveway terrain is pretty flat, so without water barns or puddles (because of the crown), there is little slippage and damage caused when I do drive on with when wet.

Are you suggesting that I should stone it before surfacing it with the millings? I was hoping the clay, packed solidly, would be sufficient as a base with only the soft spots stoned. It is my understanding that the best time to use the millings is the middle of summer when it hot and dry out. I've been told the heat helps liquify any remaining tar a bit which helps when packing.

Thanks,

Jack
 

ruskbucks

5 year old buck +
Yes, we have clay logging roads at the pine farm with no surfacing. If no one ever drove on them when wet, there would be near zero maintenance. But, sometimes, you can't really avoid it. Fortunately my driveway terrain is pretty flat, so without water barns or puddles (because of the crown), there is little slippage and damage caused when I do drive on with when wet.

Are you suggesting that I should stone it before surfacing it with the millings? I was hoping the clay, packed solidly, would be sufficient as a base with only the soft spots stoned. It is my understanding that the best time to use the millings is the middle of summer when it hot and dry out. I've been told the heat helps liquify any remaining tar a bit which helps when packing.

Thanks,

Jack
It sounds like you have a good solid clay base. I would say as long as long as you stay off of it and it doesn't rut up you will be fine just putting millings down. No need to put any stone down, the millings will hold up better than most stone. If you do have a soft spot somewhere cut it out and just go a little thicker with the millings there.
 

jsasker007

5 year old buck +
Driveways require some periodic maintenance almost every year unless you go tar or cement. I keep a couple loads of class 5 and a couple loads of black dirt on hand so it's there whenever I need it. Class 5 for the driveway and black dirt for anything around the yard. Properly sloped driveway should stay dry and not have any puddles.
 

hunts_with_stick

5 year old buck +
Is it ok to just keep driving the field or will I eventually need to put in a driveway?
 

Booner21

5 year old buck +
I have put down fabric road barrier and minus 1 with a lot of fines in it a coupes inches of rock and the road is a solid as can be. I am not sure if it is cheaper to put down large rock and skip the barrier but I haven’t had to put any extra rock on my driveway in 5 years


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

yoderjac

5 year old buck +
Is it ok to just keep driving the field or will I eventually need to put in a driveway?

It really depends on conditions. We have some trails that were never built as roads. Folks just drove over the same place on a regular basis. If you have well drained rocky soils with a high clay content and they don't get much use, especially when wet, They just compact over time. The problem is that this is rarely the case for long.

We may be conflating two things here and I may have gotten off topic a but with my driveway. I think of a driveway as something that is getting daily use regardless of weather conditions. An access trail, provides drivable access but the use may be limited. You can decided to drive on it in good conditions only. Depending on soils, even occasional use access trails can deteriorate if not designed and implement properly. The vehicle you plan to use and the frequency play a role.

I'd say, you can keep driving over the same trail until it gets to the point where you get stuck. How soon you will need to actually put in something well designed will depend on your planned use and tolerance.

Thanks,

Jack
 
Top