Under armour giving into the anti's or in the right?

I think if we stopped buying from every company who would do what UA did we'd be in trouble. I'm hearing that only Archery was the legal means allowed at this time so if that is true then this technically was a rule violation. Regardless, I do not see anything unethical in the kill with spears being used for thousands of years effectively and UA's reaction was very knee jerk. Those in charge at UA chose their jobs over making a stand because had they taken a stand the board as a publicly held company may have replaced them.
 
Correct, the small guys who have no commercial paper out can stand by their principles no matter the impact to balance sheet or bottom line, I love supporting these businesses. Harder and harder to find though, perhaps Predator Inc is one of those, I did a quick D&B lookup and they've been around quite awhile but still have less than $1M in sales and fewer than 10 employees so I bet they don't have the burden of debt and equity holders either.

They are a wonderful company to work with out of La Crosse, WI.
 
The snip below is pasted from the newspaper The Edmonton Journal on Aug 16th.


Wayne Lowry, president of the Alberta Fish and Game Association, said it is uncommon for hunters to use spears and “because it is so uncommon, it’s never really had to be dealt with in the legislation, but knowing that it is being done in other countries and other jurisdictions, we figured it would show up here sooner or later.”

Lowry said there was nothing prohibiting the use of a spear because it fits into a broad definition that allows hunters to use anything “that is a legal weapon.”

Pretty sure he was good to go as far as rules were concerned. Now Alberta will be outlawing the use of spears for hunting.
 
The snip below is pasted from the newspaper The Edmonton Journal on Aug 16th.


Wayne Lowry, president of the Alberta Fish and Game Association, said it is uncommon for hunters to use spears and “because it is so uncommon, it’s never really had to be dealt with in the legislation, but knowing that it is being done in other countries and other jurisdictions, we figured it would show up here sooner or later.”

Lowry said there was nothing prohibiting the use of a spear because it fits into a broad definition that allows hunters to use anything “that is a legal weapon.”

Pretty sure he was good to go as far as rules were concerned. Now Alberta will be outlawing the use of spears for hunting.

Seems it would be totally fine under those pretenses.
 
'Under Armour is dedicated to the hunting community and supports hunting that is conducted in compliance with applicable federal, state and local laws and hunting practices that ensure a responsible and safe harvest of the animal.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-sponsors-horrifying-video.html#ixzz4I5dgE7Uo
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

The spear was legal at the time of harvest and according to UA they support legal hunting. Their actions show something different...
I haven't stepped foot into a Dicks Sporting goods since the Sandy Hook shooting, it won't bother me a bit to never buy or wear UA again (got to admit I've only owned one UA shirt in my life and I didn't wear it much).
 
UA will not be getting any more of my money...Minus 33 and Sitka are way better quality anyway.
 
I grew up in WI on a farm, after moving off the farm it was construction. Out side year round with nothing but plain old long johns. Getting near 60 now and have never bought expensive over priced clothing to keep me warm. What they did was wrong but doesn't mean crap to me. Still wool long johns for this guy.
X2 brother! I get most my camo at wal mart:)
 
Kpj5br - post #15 ........... you ever hear of Jack Bogle ?? He's the main spokesman ( and the founder of The Vanguard Group - the largest mutual fund co. in the world ), for the FACT that most companies do NOT put the shareholder's interests first - but rather the interests of their executives. This is accomplished by hand-picking board members who are like-minded with the CEO's way of thinking and basically rubber stamps for the HUGE compensation packages that are routinely voted for by the very people ( the board members ) that are supposed to be looking out for the shareholders. This has been the central theme of Jack Bogle's crusade for reform of corporate governance for YEARS. He testifies routinely before Congress on that very subject. This crap is why the likes of Carly Fiorina can run a co. like Hewlett Packard into the ground - just about - and then still walk away with GIANT " golden parachute " severance packages. ( and then run for President on the strength of her economic " expertise " ) !!! :p There are plenty of similar FAILURES by executives in this country and their lack of interest to the " regular guy " shareholder - but they still walk away filthy rich after making bone-headed decisions. I'll bet most folks in this country don't know that when most executives are hired, their severance packages are written into their contracts before they have worked one day " looking out for the shareholders " !!!!! They can be an utter failure and still get $20 to $400 million when they walk away. So much for " pay-for-performance ". That is also an utter LIE !!! If true, executives like Carly Fiorina should get a boot in the ass and go away with nothing.

This is also why executives of most companies have fought tooth-and-nail against any & all attempts to pass improved fiduciary duty laws by lobbying congress to vote " NO " on such proposals. Republicans in congress have largely sided with those executives ........ NOT with millions of American shareholders. If the public would only educate themselves on such matters, they'd have put EXTREME pressure on their elected representatives to vote for improved fiduciary standards laws to ACTUALLY PROTECT SHAREHOLDERS' interests. If this were done, more money would come back into shareholders' pockets and retirement accounts instead of piling into a couple top executives' accounts. After all - WE , the shareholders - own the companies ......... not the executives. We shareholders are being robbed of many millions of dollars at the hands of these self-serving executives and their hand-picked, rubber-stamping boot-lickers. Those dollars should rightly be in OUR accounts - and the ceo's will still be rich .... they aren't going to starve by any means.

I'll bet you didn't expect to run into someone who actually is schooled in the facts of corporate governance problems, did you ???? I'm HEAVILY read on such matters, and if you don't know of Jack Bogle's fight for the small investor's interests, or who he is, you come from another business planet.

That " executives are looking out for the interests of their shareholders " is a time-worn lie that needs to ROT away. Your reference to, and defense of, this UA move as the UA executives are looking out for the shareholders is one more chapter in the decayed, moth-eaten BS that most Americans with retirement accounts have been victimized by.
 
Last edited:
What I don't get is they canned the guys wife for what her husband did? WTF?

If that were the case with myself, the barracuda would never been able to get a job her whole fricken life!!!!
 
Kpj5br - post #15 ........... you ever hear of Jack Bogle ??

I'll bet you didn't expect to run into someone who actually is schooled in the facts of corporate governance problems, did you ???? I'm HEAVILY read on such matters, and if you don't know of Jack Bogle's fight for the small investor's interests, or who he is, you come from another business planet.

That " executives are looking out for the interests of their shareholders " is a time-worn lie that needs to ROT away. Your reference to, and defense of, this UA move as the UA executives are looking out for the shareholders is one more chapter in the decayed, moth-eaten BS that most Americans with retirement accounts have been victimized by.

:) Yes, I know of Jack Bogle well although I've never met him, in fact I have 7 figures in my Vanguard brokerage and 401k accounts, so I'm very thankful for his founding of low-fees and index tracking, for sure!

I agree that executives inherently look after themselves first, that is the foundation of fiduciary responsibility and frankly the SEC, very first class in MBA school, so you really don't need to be "heavily" read, but I congratulate you and your dedication to the subject, hopefully it's paid off well for you.

I guess I'm just not really understanding what you're taking issue with in my words, it's simply the law. If you're saying that some people lie, cheat, and steal (exec's included) then yes you're right, that's true from the beginning of time, I don't dispute that. I'm really curious what you're "other side" of the argument is, though, what am I missing?
 
What I don't get is they canned the guys wife for what her husband did? WTF?

If that were the case with myself, the barracuda would never been able to get a job her whole fricken life!!!!

My guess is that the act was not the issue. It was publically posting a video that the company felt would harm their business. Private industry has a fairly wide latitude when it comes to firing someone. No different than someone getting sloppy drunk, posting a video of their foolishness, and getting fired because it reflects poorly on the company. With the exception of specific protected classes, companies have a lot of discretion.
 
why pay any financial planner a management/wrap fee ever? No load mutual funds= no fees.

Completely agree but bucksnbows is right, old Jack really brought that concept mainstream, prior to about maybe 15-20 years ago sub .5% was hard to find now we're in fractions of that imo thanks largely to Jack and vanguard



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
What I'm saying is the same thing Bogle is / has been saying - that the line about executives putting the shareholders' interests first is crap. And fiduciary responsibility ( by the board members, as well as money managers ) is FOR THE INVESTORS, the ones who put up money in the first place. If true fiduciary standards were the LAW, and that law had teeth to punish those who strayed from it, American investors in aggregate would be much richer. You know it and I know it. The executives are hired to run the company, they don't own it. I believe many Americans don't even understand that. SEC laws and fiduciary standards laws aren't set up to enrich executives, they are to protect investors. Your claim that executives " looking out for themselves first " is the foundation of fiduciary responsibility and SEC rules is FALSE !!! ( This is what I take issue with in your statement ).That is exactly what Bogle has been saying all these years - that existing laws are watered down by corporate lobbyists and don't go far enough to protect investors. ( I'm quite sure you know fully well and have profited by the " system " as it now exists. I suspect many of the readers here don't understand what's been keeping their hard-earned, invested dollars from bringing them more returns on their investments in their 401-k's, IRA's, mutual funds ). I know ............ " buyer beware ". Another pus-ridden, rotting phrase.

Why do most company executives in this country fight so vehemently against those improved law proposals ?? Because it would shrink their huge compensation packages to some degree and that money would rightfully come back to shareholders - for those who don't understand this point. I know you do KPJ. I'm sure many Americans don't know there have been shareholder meetings at various companies where shareholders showed up in greater numbers than usual to protest the huge compensation packages and practices of the companies they had their money invested in, only to be kept out or removed once they voiced their concerns. The executives didn't want anyone to " rock their boat ". Why or how this can happen is a subject worthy of gigantic media coverage. Regardless of political affiliation, race, religion, ethnicity, this kind of behavior affects all of our collective retirement / college / home-buying accounts.

Fiduciary standards and corporate governance laws currently on the books, though making some despicable practices legal, don't make such practices - or lack thereof - right or just. Suppression of investors' voices by having them removed or limiting average investors to only a few at shareholder meetings amounts to an autocratic, self-serving system where only the top executives take the bulk of the profits. Bogle has said in an article a few years back that the system is rigged so that the few top executives take the cream off the top and the average investor gets what's left. For this reason, the last thing the aggregate group of corporate executives want is more light to be shed on the problems of corporate governance and fiduciary duty for investors, and for more stringent laws to protect investors. Their worst nightmare is an enlightened voter / electorate.

I'm not sitting here fuming over your words and I'm not angry. I just try to enlighten as many folks as I can about how the " system " is not working in their best interest. Hiding facts, fostering deception, and telling half-truths are all still lies.
 
KPJ - I'm wondering now if I misunderstood your meaning when you said it's the foundation of fiduciary duty. Now - I think you meant the first class in MBA school is the need for fiduciary responsibility to protect against the self-interests of executives. Did I read you wrong the first time ??
 
KPJ - I'm wondering now if I misunderstood your meaning when you said it's the foundation of fiduciary duty. Now - I think you meant the first class in MBA school is the need for fiduciary responsibility to protect against the self-interests of executives. Did I read you wrong the first time ??

Yes I meant that, as the need for it - going back to Cain and Abel we as humans realized that we put ourselves first - so the NEED for the law. We're saying the same thing, I'm quite sure.

The world is plum full of lawyers for a reason... :)

In any case back to the primary topic of UA, the founder is a friend of my next door neighbor, and I have a personal colleague working at UA in Baltimore right now. This was heart-wrenching for those guys, and they didn't take the decision lightly (I saw personally a letter from the founder), and to the hunter-consumer, they know full well it is a loss - but they have now entered football, soccer, baseball, you name it - and that market simply trumps the hunters by a REALLY LONG SHOT. I really believe they are leaving hunting behind at this point, and it's heartbreaking for Kevin Plank because everything I hear from my neighbor Tim is that Kevin is an extremely avid hunter and sportsman. But bottom line, it's a "bottom line" business call - so I do believe this is one of those cases where fiduciary responsibility is taking precedence over a leader's individual principles - and that's my point, in a company that is publicly traded or has outstanding commercial paper, MBA 101 says that is what you are supposed to do.
 
ML still charges a 1% wrap fee on top of fund kickbacks. My cfp has never charged a client a wrap fee in 27 years. It's real simple come spring when cpa's call him for his fees to deduct, the answer has always been zero.

Sounds like I have allot to learn. I just hand the man 5% every month and get whacked with fees right off the top. Then your telling me they get kick backs
Maybe you could set up a thread explaining this further???
 
KPJ - Gotcha. After I posted at #37, I wondered if you meant the need for that law. Thus my follow-up post.

In my own observance of UA products as I encounter them in retail stores, I've seen much more of it aimed at the athletic market, as opposed to the outdoor segment. I'd estimate it's 5 to 1 or better for the athletic gear. Outdoor gear seems only to be some base layer products and skull caps in camo. The athletic gear ( baseball, football, exercise, yoga, tennis, etc. ) flies out the doors while the camo / hunting stuff collects dust on the racks. Bottom line - like you said.

My own cold weather hunting gear is as old as the sport - wool. I bought several pairs of heavy, green wool pants made in Vermont some years ago along with a Woolrich ( while still made in the USA ) and an LL Bean outer red plaid coat. Both coats and the wool pants have served me very well for some years and my sons purchased and use the same gear I do - because it works. My archery gear is fleece camo. Fleece and wool products are the quietest outerwear going. The only thing I've seen from UA is the base layer gear. If they make hunting outerwear, I haven't seen it. I don't own any UA gear at all.

As a percentage of the whole population, hunter numbers are continuing to decline and increase in age. Given that trend, and the trend that many people ( hunting and non-hunting ) want to at least " appear " to be fit and athletic, the market for athletic / fitness type gear seems obviously bigger.
 
Jordan - ( post #41 ) There are several great choices out there to put long-term money away. Very low-cost index mutual funds are where many people have moved their money in recent years. You have no " up-front " sales LOADS ( commissions ), no 12b-1 fees, and the annual expenses to manage your money are down to around .19 and .20% !!! 2/10th's of 1% !!!!! Compare that with .75% to 1.25% per year and you are looking at increasing your nest-egg by maybe $75,000 to $ 750,000 - ( depending on your savings rate ) over the course of 30 to 40 years.

1.25% doesn't sound like much, but given a longer time frame, it sucks a lot of money out of your pocket vs. 2/10th's of 1%. To build your nest-egg faster, choose the option to reinvest your dividends and interest ( to buy you more shares ). It's like a snowball rolling downhill - the more ( longer ) it goes, the more ( money ) that sticks to it. If you put your money away by what's called " dollar-cost-averaging " - you'll be buying shares " on sale ". To do that you put a set amount of money away at set intervals ( say $200 every month, or $50 per paycheck ) and reinvest the dividends and interest. It's a mathematic method that gets you more shares for less money. When the share price of your fund is down, the set amount of money buys you more shares. When the share price is up, that same set amount of money buys you less shares. So you are, in effect, buying more shares for less money. If you know who Warren Buffet is ( one of the 5 richest people on the planet ), he recently responded to this simple, blunt question - " what's the best way for the average investor to save for retirement ?? " He answered " Dollar-cost-average into an index fund like Vanguard ". ( That is exactly where he has directed his family trust money to go when he passes - a Vanguard index fund. )

Very sound advice !!!
 
Top