Well I went and done it. Paid a farmer $300 for all his junk around the farm. Haha. I filled a 12 foot trailer and the bed of a pickup with fence and t posts (an added bonus.) couldn't fit it all so the kind farmer said he'd bring the rest in a flatbed tomorrow! This is high quality heavy gauge fence. I think he thinks I'm doing him a favor for cleaning up his barn yard. Hope to take a picture of the haul once the rest gets here.
Tubes vs cages
- Thread starter nateb440
- Start date
M
MoBuckChaser
Guest
I have seen guys screw 4 wood pallets together for tree protection. I am sure what ever you just bought will work just fine!
Kleckner Oasis
Yearling... With promise
I haven't had much luck with tubes, maybe I needed 100s or 1000s to give them a good chance. Deer would just prune off the tops as they came out and in the fall the bucks just knocked them down.
Redonthehead
5 year old buck +
FYI - Menards in MO has re-mesh on sale for $65 this week.
Appleman
5 year old buck +
Really like buckdeer1's setup for individual trees and the screening on the bottom is spot on! My set up is very similar for individual trees but for the most part I fence off orchard grid size plantings by fencing around the perimeter. This requires less fencing and easy of maintenance. I live in Vermont where I have to use 26" high aluminum screening to protect from vole damage in deep snow over the winters. Tree tubes and drainage pipe, time and time again at sites I have visited showed damage by voles or bores. The moist or wet environment these so call protectors produce not only invite insects that lay eggs that hatch into borers but can damage or rot the base of the tree. White spirals provide marginal protection, but crack and open up over a short period. Aluminum screening has protected over 450 trees on my property for many years with only the loss of 1 or 2 trees because I did not notice tree growth had opened them up before I could get to them. When it comes a time when the tree canopy is high enough to be out of reach of browsing whitetails the fences come down and local wildlife can enter freely. (Note: Tree tubes are useful for establishing nut and hardwood trees but not fruit trees). 
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
What do you use for perimeter fence?
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
I've used the aluminum screen ( for vole / mouse protection ) at camp and after 5 years, no problems. Rot, bugs, borers, fungus - no problems. I learned about the alum. screen on here from other good gents !!
Edit: We need a Menards around here !! The cheapest I've found concrete re-mesh is $108 for a roll. At $65/roll, I'd be buying 3 or 4 rolls !!
Edit: We need a Menards around here !! The cheapest I've found concrete re-mesh is $108 for a roll. At $65/roll, I'd be buying 3 or 4 rolls !!
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Hey Tree Spud,
Two questions:
1) What did you do with the tubed seedlings that were too flimsy? How did you get them to maturity? I just put a bunch of seedlings in tubes this spring, but most are no where close to coming out of the tube. I'll be replanting next spring... with all the rain this year compared to the last two years I underestimated how wet my planting area gets.
2) Where are you getting your rolls of welded wire for cages from? I'm in WI, near Hartford.
Thanks!
I don't know if you have a Fleet Farm in your area, but they have the welded wire on sale now. I believe the sale goes until July 22nd. I'm going to purchase some of the welded wire now and hopefully put up the cages this year so I don't have to mess around that next spring when the trees arrive.
Tree Spud
5 year old buck +
I could get into a lot of detail, but any trees you are growing will surge once they start to reach the top of the tube. The next years growth can be significant above the tube. If the growth accelerates this is when the main leader cannot support the growth.
A couple of options ... spray around the tube with Gly, then cut large holes in the lower half of the tube to let air circulate upwards.
Note - I am working with 48" tubes that allow the trees to get above the grass line.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Cutting large holes low in the tube can be beneficial when conditions are wet and shady when mold or fungus is an issue. However, under dry hot conditions, it can create a chimney effect and dry out the seedling. I find tubes benefits/issues to be very site specific. One tube can create great benefits and another 50 yards away can cause more problems. If I could afford caging, I'd do that with everything. Given my browse pressure, tubes are often the only practical protection for me.
Thanks,
Jack
My tubes are currently in a wet area. They are 5 feet. I used both combitubes and miracle tubes to compare the growth and any cost benefit to the combitubes. We have huge deer pressure problems, and I need to protect the trees. I didnt realize that the tubes would be a problem. It's also been a very wet year. We're up 8" of rain since the spring. You're proposing that I drill holes above the 18" line? Or even lower?
What would you do with them once trees emerge? Leave them on? Pull them ASAP? Tie the trees to stakes?
What good are the tubes in the future? Save for dry spots? Cut down to 20" for rabbit/vole protection inside of cages?
What would you do with them once trees emerge? Leave them on? Pull them ASAP? Tie the trees to stakes?
What good are the tubes in the future? Save for dry spots? Cut down to 20" for rabbit/vole protection inside of cages?
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yoderjac
5 year old buck +
I'm not proposing anything. I'm just saying that under some conditions tubes can be beneficial and harmful under others. I've had some trees die in tubes but I still use them. In general, tubes are meant to be kept on the tree until the trunk reaches the diameter of the tube. This protects the trunk from deer rubbing the trunk. For rabbit/vole, window screen is probably a better bet.
I don't really have any answers here. I'm finding what works well in some spots on my place with a particular kind of tree can be problematic in others. I'm using a variety of techniques from cages to tubes to no protection. Cages work best for me pretty consistently but are the most expensive in money and time. Everything else seem pretty inconsistent.
Thanks,
Jack
I don't really have any answers here. I'm finding what works well in some spots on my place with a particular kind of tree can be problematic in others. I'm using a variety of techniques from cages to tubes to no protection. Cages work best for me pretty consistently but are the most expensive in money and time. Everything else seem pretty inconsistent.
Thanks,
Jack
What do you do for weed control in the cages?
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
I use water and oxygen permeable landscaping material (bought mine from John at BigRock) and cover it with stone as mulch. I had used organic mulch but found it decomposed too quickly and provided an attraction for mice, moles, and voles to next. The quarry stone I now use is much more permanent and works well to hold the landscaping material in place. Some folks in some areas have issues with heat using stone but that has not been an issue in my area.
Thanks,
Jack
Tap
5 year old buck +
Weed fabric covered with stone is working best for me, but I don't buy the stone. I can always find enough small stones from picking them out of my plots. I prefer field stones over gravel.
I still hate tubes though, and I quit using them for 99% of my trees. I use the fabric and stone for weed control inside my cages.
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g squared 23
5 year old buck +
So I'm looking at this from a cost analysis standpoint. (This assumption is for hardwoods/shrubs and not fruit trees which require bigger cages and aren't really part of the discussion. I'm also assuming you would use the same size weed mat for both, or not use one at all.)
You can get 5' plantra sunflex tubes/stakes/nets for $7/setup from the wildlife group, plus shipping.
You can get 5' combitubes from tree protection supply for 4.25 each plus stakes @ 1.60 each for a total of 5.85 per setup plus shipping. (A guy could probably make his own stakes out of PVC pipe and cut down on the cost of stakes. TPS also sells cheaper 5' economy tubes @ 3.00 each, so you could shave 1.25 off the price if you were trying to be as economical as possible = 4.60/set.).
Right now Menards has a 50'x5' roll of 14 gauge welded wire for $33. This smaller gauge requires a stake, and a 6' T-post they have for 3.24. (Again, many might have access to older posts or rebar for much less or no cost, but I'm trying to compare apples to apples. But this kind of wire does require posting of some kind.) So for me, 50' of wire would make eight 6.25' circumference (2' diameter) cages so 4.12/cage plus tax plus 3.24/stake is 7.36/setup plus tax.
Menards also has 5'x150' 10 gauge reinforcing mesh on sale for $95. That would make 24 cages @ 3.95/2' diameter cage. I'm not sure if 10 gauge mesh is strong enough that it does not need a stake as I haven't worked with it yet. Assuming it does, add 3.24 for a total of 7.19/set plus tax.
So the big question would be if the 10 gauge wire requires staking. If not, this seems like the "best" and most economical answer (although still more time and labor intensive). If it does, it's a $2.59 difference from the cheapest (and likely weakest/least predictable) tree tube option.
This certainly isn't taking into account one's time which is in itself valuable and is often the biggest limiting factor. So much for much larger scale plantings, the time and dollar savings start to become significant and advatages of tubes might start to outweigh their cons.
I'm also not including the price of mesh sheeting for rodent protection which is arguably more important for cagings vs tubing.
Thoughts?
You can get 5' plantra sunflex tubes/stakes/nets for $7/setup from the wildlife group, plus shipping.
You can get 5' combitubes from tree protection supply for 4.25 each plus stakes @ 1.60 each for a total of 5.85 per setup plus shipping. (A guy could probably make his own stakes out of PVC pipe and cut down on the cost of stakes. TPS also sells cheaper 5' economy tubes @ 3.00 each, so you could shave 1.25 off the price if you were trying to be as economical as possible = 4.60/set.).
Right now Menards has a 50'x5' roll of 14 gauge welded wire for $33. This smaller gauge requires a stake, and a 6' T-post they have for 3.24. (Again, many might have access to older posts or rebar for much less or no cost, but I'm trying to compare apples to apples. But this kind of wire does require posting of some kind.) So for me, 50' of wire would make eight 6.25' circumference (2' diameter) cages so 4.12/cage plus tax plus 3.24/stake is 7.36/setup plus tax.
Menards also has 5'x150' 10 gauge reinforcing mesh on sale for $95. That would make 24 cages @ 3.95/2' diameter cage. I'm not sure if 10 gauge mesh is strong enough that it does not need a stake as I haven't worked with it yet. Assuming it does, add 3.24 for a total of 7.19/set plus tax.
So the big question would be if the 10 gauge wire requires staking. If not, this seems like the "best" and most economical answer (although still more time and labor intensive). If it does, it's a $2.59 difference from the cheapest (and likely weakest/least predictable) tree tube option.
This certainly isn't taking into account one's time which is in itself valuable and is often the biggest limiting factor. So much for much larger scale plantings, the time and dollar savings start to become significant and advatages of tubes might start to outweigh their cons.
I'm also not including the price of mesh sheeting for rodent protection which is arguably more important for cagings vs tubing.
Thoughts?
Tap
5 year old buck +
Deer destroy my tubes which destroys my valuable tree.
Take this to the bank...it's best to plant only 1 tree PROPERLY than to plant 10 trees half-assed. On my property, tubes are half-assed. Deer have proven that to me time and time again. I'll never spend another dime on tubes.
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