Trump tax plan and itemizing deductions

on the original question of itemizing: I am fortunate to not have a mortgage and don't owe anyone a dime. Thus I have not itemized in years, and have taken the standard deduction of $12K (married filing jointly). I always chuckled at co-workers that loved to deduct their mortgage interest but weren't much over the $12k I got. Now it will be bumped to $24K. Going to be a lot more people not itemizing this year, which will knock out all those other deductions they were taking.

One thing I do need to do is look at putting money into a ROTH 401k rather than the standard 401k. I already max out the 401k and ROTH IRAs for both wife and myself.
 
Tmil, post #53 - Nope. Not saying it was Reagan's idea. Just repeating what he said on a nationally televised press conference. I watched it. The flight offshore by companies is a fact no seeing person can deny. Nike was the first one to go ( of any size ).
I only know millions of Americans of ALL political stripes lost their jobs. When millions of people lose their jobs ......... is that winning ?? How are they better off unemployed and having to start over ?? This assumes they have enough money saved up to be able to pay for their "re-training" education. ( and the re-training better happen quickly - bills keep coming. ) How many of you have $200,000 or more laying around ?? And don't say low-interest loans - any help from the government is evil. Even if those folks end up with a better skill set. Better off to have everyone behind a cash register or in a ditch, right ?? Lots of economic buying power there. I've seen too many small businesses go out of business because factories and other companies left for overseas and local buying power from citizens eroded. How is that good ??? For the ones who lost jobs or the small businesses who had to close ???

I know some will say stocks went up and money was made in their 401-K's because the companies went overseas. I made a lot of money too that way. ( I've been investing regularly since I was 18. )But is it good for our overall economy ?? Our financial health as a country ?? Proof to me is the abundance of businesses, large and small, now saying in ads and on TV to, "Buy local. Support your local economy". " Buy 'Made in the U.S.A' " is the rallying cry these days. That same thing was said years ago ( mainly by labor groups !! ) when the race offshore began, but people said - " That's them - it doesn't affect me. " But the ripple effect spread. Just like the meltdown that hit in 2007. Same thing happened - the ripple effect. Lots of businesses around our region closed or slashed staff. Restaurants were giving away free meals if you bought one just to get folks into their establishments. Swimming pool installers, sandwich/lunch shops, home builders, re-modelers, even Home Depot and Lowes were empty. I went in several times to both H.D. and Lowes and the floor staff told me - " Please buy something !! " People unsure about their job security and financial future don't spend money - plain & simple. They get REAL TIGHT.

I guess I need to hear a LOGICAL reason why such economic conditions are a good thing for citizens of this country and our overall economy.
 
Redonthehead - ^^^^^ Are you cheering the loss of deductions by lots of folks in the U.S. ?? ( when you say it will knock out all those other deductions they were taking ) Are you happy they lost their mortgage deduction, state and local property deductions ?? Do you then feel great for those multi-millionaires and billionaires who are saving millions and billions with the new tax plan ??

Just wondering. Honest question.
 
I think some here are trying to make perfect the enemy of good. Remember that trying to achieve perfect is what doomed repealing Obamacare. Lots of good things in this tax plan including the higher standard deduction.

Logical reasons for why this is good? First time GDP has exceeded 3% in 8 years (Obama ranged 1.6%-2.6%), new home building starts highest in 10 years, manufacturing output highest in last 13 years, stock market up dramatically, monthly new jobs reports are now consistently >200k per month where during Obumer they were consistently <150k/month ... and the reduction in corporate taxes has not even taken effect yet.

As Confucius says ... Better a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without. :emoji_wink:
 
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Bwoods ... you forgot one thing ... watching the Hillary news media meltdown on election night was priceless. The ongoing liberal temper tantrums the past 13 months have been so much fun to watch. They should get an Oscar for best longest running drama mini-series ever produced.

What are they all upset at? Trump in 12 months has proven that every one of the liberal & Obama policies and proclamations of doom over the prior 8 years are wrong ... because he keeps winning with true conservative values and implementing policies that work ... :emoji_grin:

I remember that night like it was yesterday. I kept drinking beer and thinking yes it is gonna happen, had a headache in the morning from Coors Light...so fun:emoji_tropical_drink:
 
I remember that night like it was yesterday. I kept drinking beer and thinking yes it is gonna happen, had a headache in the morning from Coors Light...so fun:emoji_tropical_drink:

Not a habit but when Fox News called it I was watching with one eye because I couldn't focus with two :)
Trump already saved our butts IMO with the appointment of Neil Gorsuch. After that I said I don't care if he gets everything else wrong. He drives my wife nuts but I love the guy. He just spews out what's on his mind. Plays the media like a fiddle and pushes on. One of my favorite things about him is he's not a politician. He's not setting himself up for speaking engagements or lobbying jobs after this gig. Will he make mistakes? Sure, but at the end of the day I don't think he will try to hurt the US to gain a future.

Bowsnbucks don't forget Ross Perot. He said of NAFTA and all theses other trade agreements America would hear a sucking sound as jobs headed south. He was right! That's why I voted for him. In the end that's why Teflon Willy won and signed NAFTA :(.

Trump ain't perfect but at least, IMO, he's trying something, anything to make it better for the average American. I seriously doubt if anyone else won they would be trying as hard to fight both political parties. A D would be apologizing to little rocket man and an R would be trying fruitlessly to get the press to like them and we would all still be scratching our heads about why they had no clue what's going on.

I agree manufacturing back here is the ultimate solution but it's absence is not all that's driven our economy in the dirt. A big bed and breakfast is being rehabbed behind a commercial property I'm working on. I spent the day listening to what seemed to be a Mexican Bar. I'm willing to bet less than 1/2 of the workers over there are legal or being paid prevailing wage. If this tax deal was 100% spot on it still wouldn't fix everything. There's lots that needs fixing but you have to start somewhere.

Personally I doubt anyone else would even be trying. And this bill might stink. But after the last 8 years I'm willing to wait 8 more before calling out the linch mob.
 
Wow, this thread has certainly gotten heated.

I don't really think heated. I'm actually glad to see respectful disagreement. Nothing wrong with that.
There's plenty I don't agree with by some here. But those same guys and I agree on a bunch of other topics so it's good. Nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree. Actually I think the world could use more of it....
 
....... monthly new jobs reports are now consistently >200k per month where during Obumer they were consistently less than <150k per month. :emoji_wink:

TS ... I probably shouldn't get off the porch since I ain't got no mutt barking in this political discussion. However, it might interest you to know that 1,189,000 jobs were created during the first 7 months of the Trump administration while 1,375,000 jobs were created during the last 7 months of Obama's presidency (statistically, that is close to a tie). In a year over year comparison, Jan-July 2016 (Obama-time), 1,422,000 jobs were created vs Trump's Jan-July 2017 job creation of 1,375,000. Inheriting a job situation where 700,000+ jobs were being lost each month (Jan 2009 and well into 2010), Obama's administration saw a RECORD 75-MONTH period of job creation (the remainder of his Presidency). Of the last 5 Presidents, Reagan created 15.9 M jobs, Clinton 22.9M jobs, Obama 11.9M jobs (they claimed 15+M), and each of the Bush Presidents created less than 5M jobs during their Presidency. Historians will probably look very favorably on OB's Presidency with regard to job creation..... given the circumstances he inherited when he took office. There are things one might criticize about the economy with regard to Obama's Presidency; however, it is best discussions on this site present facts as accurately as possible. Let's all hope the good times continue to roll. TS ... no personal criticism of you is intended with this post.
 
No offense meant but liars figure and figures don't. I've spent a life time hearing the Reagan Bush years had nothing to do with Slick willy's first years success. Yet O's first few were bad because of GW.

Can't have it both ways. The best we can do is learn from what's coming by looking at the past. The markets read "today", period. I bought firearm manufacturers stock the day O won. I did good! If The "pants suit" won I would have bought more.

Just agreeing to disagree.

Lots of stuff is still bad. Won't be fixed in my life but hopefully before the floor falls out from under our kids. I'd hate to think we become Cuba over a bunch of under educated college kids who believe in utopia.
 
Yep the economy was already recovering before Bush Sr. left office. With Bush Jr., not so much. I too get sick of the Slick Willy early success stories. What was true it that he was smart enough (or too distracted) to not screw up the direction of the ship when he became captain. Carry on....
 
A rather complimentary article about Bush 41 written by - of all people - a speech writer for Clinton. In todays world of tribal politics, GHW Bush would probably be called a RINO by many in the far right GOP. Give the piece a look, the man had a lot of very good qualities. https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/what-george-h-w-bush-got-wrong
Enjoy :-)
 
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^^^^Many of these numbers don't tell you the total story behind each president. For example what percentage of the job creation was government jobs compared to private sector jobs. What type of policies were used to drive the job creation, debt spending, tax cuts and what results did these policies generate; growth in GNP, increase in the stock market and increase in personal wealth. I think if you look at Obama's policies you will see he created jobs but increase national debt 7 trillion but did not increase demand so the economy did not grow. Basically he added jobs through government spending and not organic growth through market demand.

One last thing, to much credit and blame is given to presidents and in the case of the market sense the great recessions companies deserve much of the credit for growth in the stock market as companies leaned out organizations so earnings continued to perform despite slow demand.
 
TS ... I probably shouldn't get off the porch since I ain't got no mutt barking in this political discussion. However, it might interest you to know that 1,189,000 jobs were created during the first 7 months of the Trump administration while 1,375,000 jobs were created during the last 7 months of Obama's presidency (statistically, that is close to a tie). In a year over year comparison, Jan-July 2016 (Obama-time), 1,422,000 jobs were created vs Trump's Jan-July 2017 job creation of 1,375,000. Inheriting a job situation where 700,000+ jobs were being lost each month (Jan 2009 and well into 2010), Obama's administration saw a RECORD 75-MONTH period of job creation (the remainder of his Presidency). Of the last 5 Presidents, Reagan created 15.9 M jobs, Clinton 22.9M jobs, Obama 11.9M jobs (they claimed 15+M), and each of the Bush Presidents created less than 5M jobs during their Presidency. Historians will probably look very favorably on OB's Presidency with regard to job creation..... given the circumstances he inherited when he took office. There are things one might criticize about the economy with regard to Obama's Presidency; however, it is best discussions on this site present facts as accurately as possible. Let's all hope the good times continue to roll. TS ... no personal criticism of you is intended with this post.

Oakseed ... none taken ...

Are those the same # cruncher s that kept telling us the unemployment was going down while in 2016 there was a record number 95 million Americans were not in the labor force? They cooked the unemployment #'s by not reporting those who stopped looking for work, stating that unemployment was going down holding around ~ 4.7%, while actual unemployment was 12-14% with black unemployment 17-18%. Food stamps during Obama's terms went from 10 mil to 41 mil recipients.

The question I would pose, if Obama had created such a strong economic engine driving that record job creation, the why did Hillary Clinton lose to Trump? I mean she was Obama II touting all of the same policies and economic plans ... right?

Trump got elected across party lines becuse for many Americans, their economic realities were much harsher than the stats you list above, a lot of forgotten people.
 
Obama did everything he could to suppress job creation. Remember how he talked about American needing to be "taken down a notch?" It happened in spite of him if anything.

The health care law blew millions off full time work roles. The majority of the jobs he created were either government or part time. He did all he could to choke off the energy boom, but what was happening outside the boundaries of federal property, he had no jurisdiction. He gave the unemployed two years to collect benefits. And if you take a look at the charts showing those on unemployment vs those on disability, they perfectly diverge from one another. As unemployment ran out, the disabled went up by the same amount thanks to his recognition of fibromyalgia as a qualifying condition. This is why the number not in the labor force was essentially unchanged. There's over ten million people collecting disability. That's about 1 in 30. Sounds like a national emergency to me.
 
FB : "For example what percentage of the job creation was government jobs compared to private sector ..." / SD555 : "The majority of the jobs he created were either government or part time."
Reality ... myth busting ......
In this article, we'll examine the total number of government employees (GE) as a percentage of the population (P). We'll call this the GE/P Ratio. A higher ratio indicates a higher percentage of government employees relative to the total population. We'll examine this ratio at the end of the last five presidential terms, including Obama's first. I should note that the numbers are in millions and the number of government employees includes federal, state, local, etc. Although I am using the end of presidential terms as the periods measured, this is not meant to imply that any president is solely responsible for this growth.

Introducing the GE/P Ratio
The following table shows the number of government employees, total population and the GE/P Ratio. It essentially takes a snapshot at the end of each presidents term and compares it to the point when they took office.

End of Term Date # Government Employees (GE) Population (P) GE/P Ratio
Obama 12/2012 (1st term) 21,925,000 315,255,000 6.9%

GW Bush 12/2008 22,555,000 306,004,000 7.4%

Clinton 12/2000 20,804,000 283,696,000 7.3%

GHW Bush 12/1992 18,878,000 258,413,000 7.3%

Reagan 12/1988 17,736,000 246,056,000 7.2%


Notice how the GE/P Ratio held steady for Obama's predecessors, hovering around 7.3%. However, by the end of Obama's first term, the ratio fell to 6.9%, a decrease of 7% from the end of the Bush era. To glean the full picture, we'll need to look at the percentage increase for the population and for the number of government employees. If the population increases by a rate similar to the increase in government employment, that would be expected. From 1980 to 2008, the percentage increase in total government employees at the end of each of their terms (compared to when they took office), was between 6.4% and 10.2%. This is relatively close to the percentage increase in the population over the same period (5.0% to 9.8%). However, during Obama's first term, the population increased by 3.0% while the number of government employees fell by 7%. This is the reason for the decline in the GE/P Ratio shown above.

End of Term Date % Increase in GE % Increase in P GE/P Ratio
Obama 12/2012 -2.8% 3% 6.9%
GW Bush 12/2008 8.4% 7.9% 7.4%
Clinton 12/2000 10.2% 9.8% 7.3%
GHW Bush 12/1992 6.4% 5.0% 7.3%
Reagan 12/1988 8.3% 7.6% 7.2%

This decline is largely a result of the financial crisis. With revenue in shorter supply, state governments which have a mandate to balance their budgets, cut staff.

Oakseeds says ... Sorry, the article didn't have data including Obama's 2nd term; however, recovery was on it's way by then so there would be very little reason to expect a big spike in govt. employment as a way to create jobs.
This data says Obimies job-creation rate was no worse than 4 out of the last 5. Actually, it was less!

Conclusion ... from article
Although we may have a temporary reprieve from overall government growth, on the road to a larger government lies many perils. Although the size of government has declined slightly in the past four years, the debt has exploded and higher taxes are likely on the horizon. It is during periods of government expansion that freedoms are commonly surrendered. When Paul Revere took his midnight ride shouting, "The British are coming," the colonists were facing a mortal threat from an army intent on taking their land and freedom. Today, the threat is no less real, but is not of the type which threatens our life, just our liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Think about it.


The Growth Of Government: 1980 To 2012
 
Oakseed ... none taken ...
"Are those the same # cruncher s that kept telling us the unemployment was going down while in 2016 there was a record number 95 million Americans were not in the labor force? They cooked the unemployment #'s by not reporting those who stopped looking for work, stating that unemployment was going down holding around ~ 4.7%, while actual unemployment was 12-14% with black unemployment 17-18%."

Many economists believe that upwards of one-half of the individuals who left the labor force were baby boomers who retired for one reason or another. If that is true the
"actual unemployment" (those looking for work and those dropped out of the labor force) would be about 6-7%, just a little above what most economists have considered
full employment (5%) ... because of the mismatch between job requirements and potential employee qualifications.


[
QUOTE]The question I would pose, if Obama had created such a strong economic engine driving that record job creation, the why did Hillary Clinton lose to Trump? I mean she was Obama II touting all of the same policies and economic plans ... right?
Many have said she was a poor/flawed candidate and/or she took some critical states for granted. Others cite Clinton haters. Psst......... then too, some have said Russia :-)

I got to get off this thread; it takes way too much time. It's worth it to help people be better informed. Adios, amigos
 
Many economists believe that upwards of one-half of the individuals who left the labor force were baby boomers who retired for one reason or another. If that is true the
"actual unemployment" (those looking for work and those dropped out of the labor force) would be about 6-7%, just a little above what most economists have considered
full employment (5%) ... because of the mismatch between job requirements and potential employee qualifications.



QUOTE]“Many have said she was a poor/flawed candidate and/or she took some critical states for granted. Others cite Clinton haters. Psst......... then too, some have said Russia :-)

I got to get off this thread; it takes way too much time. It's worth it to help people be better informed. Adios, amigos[/QUOTE]

I love when liberals describe failure as the new norm ... be well ... :emoji_slight_smile:
 
Lots of topics in this thread. All I know is that the new tax law will be incredibly helpful to my wife and I. We gross $70k between the two of us, which will bring us a tax decrease of somewhere around $1,300 to $1,500. And the company we both work for just announced 6% raises for next year, and an extra $500 payment into everyones 401k. A great Christmas in our household!
 
Obama did everything he could to suppress job creation. Remember how he talked about American needing to be "taken down a notch?" It happened in spite of him if anything.

The health care law blew millions off full time work roles. The majority of the jobs he created were either government or part time. He did all he could to choke off the energy boom, but what was happening outside the boundaries of federal property, he had no jurisdiction. He gave the unemployed two years to collect benefits. And if you take a look at the charts showing those on unemployment vs those on disability, they perfectly diverge from one another. As unemployment ran out, the disabled went up by the same amount thanks to his recognition of fibromyalgia as a qualifying condition. This is why the number not in the labor force was essentially unchanged. There's over ten million people collecting disability. That's about 1 in 30. Sounds like a national emergency to me.

Any president can find numbers that look favorable to him. Obama economics were not good for most Americans and the national debt he added to the country added jobs but at what cost. As I understand it many of those jobs were in healthcare driven by the Affordable Care Act which we know is unsustainable. Government and in this case Obama created false demand by government expenditures and not organic growth from consumers. What does that mean, those jobs were created because Obama added 7 trillion to the national debt. For most of his presidency Obama using Harry Reid did not pass a budget and instead spent under an emergency resolution created during the market crash. Jobs maybe but at what cost?

https://budget.house.gov/hbc-publication/252305/
 
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