Red osier and tag alder advice

[browndog]

Just looking for some input on what to do with the two pics below. First pic has ROD mixed in with tag alders and the second pic is just tag alders. What would you do with this? Should I cut everything to the ground? Hinge cut some of the tags? I would like to get this area to thicken up a bit. It's 95%+ tag alders with some wilow brush, ROD along the edges and poison sumac of course. This area is very wet in the spring and is about 15-20 acres.

 

[wiscwhip]

Would you be able to get in there with that tractor and brushhog or would you sink out of sight?

 

[Rally1148]

Funny.... I'm planting ROD and speckled alder to thicken up my swamps.

In general, to get those species to "thicken up" you don't need to mow them completely to the ground. Annual "pruning" works to get tons of new growth on them. I'd say go in with a chainsaw and work on smaller areas (think clumps) to thicken up.

 

[browndog]

Would you be able to get in there with that tractor and brushhog or would you sink out of sight?

I think it is froze enough but I think a lot of the alders would be to big. Quite a few are 15' tall and 3" in diameter.

 

[bat man]

BROWN DOG-

Your area is exactly what I have. Keep me posted on your plans so we can compare notes. I 'hinged' a 1/3 acre to steer bucks through the end of a plot vs through this stuff. My silky will destroy the biggest alders in 2 or 3 strokes. $50 and you leave the chainsaw at the truck.

DIPP recommends blowing pockets of it down to create edge, and I did some of that as well but I have no results as I diid it 1 month ago-

 

[browndog]

I have hinged some of the tags and cut some of the clumps right to the ground. I thinned some of the tags that were in the ROD. This area used to have about a dozen tamaracks in it but now there is only 3 of them. I would love to see more tamaracks in this area. I'd be lucky to find any deer beds in this area right now. It just doesn't hold deer like I want it to.

 

[wiscwhip]

I think it is froze enough but I think a lot of the alders would be to big. Quite a few are 15' tall and 3" in diameter.

That is too bad, I have seen areas like this that were brushhogged in a random wagon wheel pattern with a large cleared area in the center and 3 or 4 "spokes" coming out from the center with smaller openings cut along length of the "spokes". The "spokes" can be as wide or narrow as needed, driven by the overall size of the alder swamp and how much you want to cut. It creates a ton of edge and will direct movement to a certain degree. One can even go back and plant random conifer plugs and shrubs in higher areas along the north sides of the openings. Crude sketch, but you get the idea.
Red is the extent of the alder swamp
Black is the openings and "spokes"
Green is conifer/shrub plantings

The nice part is you can come back in 5 to 7 years(or sooner) and put new "spokes" in between the older ones to create fresh new growth as the original cut starts to mature. I suppose a guy could do something like this with a saw, but I would think it would be a ton of work.

 

[Tree Spud]

BROWN DOG-

Your area is exactly what I have. Keep me posted on your plans so we can compare notes. I 'hinged' a 1/3 acre to steer bucks through the end of a plot vs through this stuff. My silky will destroy the biggest alders in 2 or 3 strokes. $50 and you leave the chainsaw at the truck.

DIPP recommends blowing pockets of it down to create edge, and I did some of that as well but I have no results as I diid it 1 month ago-

Bat Man ... not sure I understand the "blowing pockets down to create edge" ... can you clarify or do you have pictures?

 

[sandbur]

Clear pockets, cut deer trails between them, and plant some spruce in clumps in those pockets. Plant a few lines of spruce thru the tag alders to direct movement at a later date. You will have to release the spruce a time or two.

Released spruce from earlier this winter.

 

[sandbur]

Small tag clearcut I made a few years ago that was up against some spruce.

Deer bed under those spruce.

 

[sandbur]

Deer trail leaving this pocket, leading to a waterhole, and then to another clearcut pocket.

 

[browndog]

I would love to plant spruce in/along my tag alder but I don't think it will be possible. My tag area is standing water 9 months out of the year.

 

[Terrific_tom]

I would love to plant spruce in/along my tag alder but I don't think it will be possible. My tag area is standing water 9 months out of the year.

Take a walk in your alder when it is frozen and find the humps, which most alder stands have. Mark the humps with flagging and go back in spring and plant your spruce. These humps are magnets for mature buck bedding. My alder stand is wet most of the year as yours but I have a few natural occuring balsams trees growing on these humps. Almost every year I can follow a rub line from the food plot to 1 of these humps. Now if I could figure how to get him out in the open during daylight.

 

[browndog]

I'll have to look into balsams. I have norway spruce ordered for this spring. Any chance that they can tolerate being planted on these humps? I'm thinking they wouldn't make it. Tamaracks would probably be the best if I can get them planted on the tag humps and through the root mass.

 

[Terrific_tom]

I'll have to look into balsams. I have norway spruce ordered for this spring. Any chance that they can tolerate being planted on these humps? I'm thinking they wouldn't make it. Tamaracks would probably be the best if I can get them planted on the tag humps and through the root mass.

I didn't plant the balsams they just occure naturally. I would try planting a couple and see what happens. I know tamaracks would grow but they loose all their needles in late fall. I have an area of Tamaracks also that is a sanctuary where deer bed in also, but that is all that grows in there and is void of deer once winter sets in.

 

[wiscwhip]

If you are going to try planting into that moisture, black spruce would be better than Norway. See if you can order just a small quantity to try in a few of the highest spots.

 

[browndog]

Another thing I might try is, cutting some tag humps down to the ground now and push some black willow cuttings in the humps in the spring.

 

[browndog]

Interesting. My tamaracks are still getting used right now. Probably not as much as they did earlier in the year, but still some bedding in them. They are thick, thick, thick...once I'm in there the wind is negligible.

My neighbors have a mix of tags and a lot more tamaracks than I have and the deer sign is crazy in there this time of the year, it is like that every year. I look at my tag area with 3 tamaracks and it is like a vast wasteland right now. Both areas are roughly the same acreage.

 

[Terrific_tom]

Interesting. My tamaracks are still getting used right now. Probably not as much as they did earlier in the year, but still some bedding in them. They are thick, thick, thick...once I'm in there the wind is negligible.

Stu there is a very big cedar swamp less than 1/2 mile from me which most of the deer go to in January and February. The rest of the year they use it a lot. Several years ago when we had a very mild winter they used the Tamaracks all winter.

 

[Tree Spud]

In our tag alder/RDO/tamaracks the area looks like a deer super highway this time of year. Problem is there is little to no bedding.

I wouldn't waste time planting tamaracks unless that is the only thing that will grow. The best choice for wet areas would be white cedar. Unfortunately they probably wouldn't survive because of deer browse. Next best would be black spruce .

I have 700 I am going to try and plant in this area this spring