Old Field/Early Successional areas

[BenAllgood]

I have some questions for those of you that have old field or early successional areas.

Do you find deer use in these areas to be less in the fall and winter? Or, is it more dependent on the stage of succession? I would think spring and summer use of these areas would be greatest in the first couple stages of succession, but then start to fall off during the later stages. On the other hand, I would think winter use would be greatest in the stages dominated by more shrubby or woody plants.

During the winter, areas that are in the earliest successional periods, I would think would not hold as much value for deer. But, they would have tremendous value in the spring and summer from a food standpoint. Then, as the areas become dominated by more perennial species, the winter use would start to be greater.

I'm just curious what others have found in their old field or early successional areas. I am just starting on developing about 16-17 acres like this. I have some assumptions, but have mostly always dealt with woods and young forest type areas like replanted cutovers.

My first thought is to get rid of all the cool season perennial grass, and see what the seed bank has to offer. Then, I would break up the area into management units that I would keep in different stages of early to mid succession rotations.

I know some of you are further down the road in managing these types of areas.

 

[Native Hunter]

Ben, I think you are on the right track. What I like is an NWSG field that isn't too thick and has lots of forbs mixed in with it. The tall NWSGs provide cover while the deer are browsing the forbs.

During the summer, a field is too hot for deer to bed in. I never see bedding in NWSGs in the summer - but the deer move through them at night, daylight and dusk browsing. During the fall and winter, the food value has diminished, but the NWSGs provide the best cover around, because the leaves have fallen off the trees. So, deer use them for travel cover, and then the grasses feel good to bed in, because the summer heat is gone.

The seed bank could indeed provide you with the type of field that you are looking for. You lose nothing but a little time trying it and seeing what emerges. In your area you should get a lot of tall goldenrod, ironweed and some other tall species. You might feel it is good enough without going to the expense of doing NWSGs.

Good luck,

 

[BenAllgood]

Steve, do you go in periodically to remove shrubs and young trees? And how are you keeping the grasses from overtaking the forb component?

 

[Native Hunter]

Steve, do you go in periodically to remove shrubs and young trees? And how are you keeping the grasses from overtaking the forb component?

I'm mowing in late spring just before fawn drop, and I do some spot spraying with a pickup truck at various times until the fields get too high to drive in.

Trees aren't a big problem in my fields. The mowing and spot spraying take care of them. The big problem is blackberry briers. Two years ago I finally had to break down and spray with a boom sprayer to get rid of them. Some are not bad, but they are extremely aggressive and hard to hold back once they get a foothold. For now the spraying I did is working, but I will have to do some touch up spot spraying next spring, because they do eventually come back.

So far I have not experienced the grasses taking over the forbs like you read about. Well...maybe in one field the grass is getting stronger. If you do have that problem, you disk lightly every few years to set the grasses back and allow the forbs to return.

 

[BenAllgood]

Steve, when you say you're mowing in late spring, is that all your fields, every year? Or, do you have them on some sort of rotation?

 

[Native Hunter]

Steve, when you say you're mowing in late spring, is that all your fields, every year?

Yes, if it necessary to knock back unwanted species. If a field is growing pretty clean, you can just strip mow on a 3 year rotation - leave strips and rotate so that the whole field is mowed over 3 years. If briers are bad, you won't be able to do that. They can engulf a field in 3 years.

 

[ksgobbler]

Steve, do you go in periodically to remove shrubs and young trees? And how are you keeping the grasses from overtaking the forb component?

Fire. An early spring burn promotes forbs. Later in the spring the grass will choke out the forbs

 

[Bill]

Two years ago I finally had to break down and spray with a boom sprayer to get rid of them. Some are not bad, but they are extremely aggressive and hard to hold back once they get a foothold.

I know you told me once but what did you spray for the black berry that didn’t hurt the NWSG?

 

[ksgobbler]

I know you told me once but what did you spray for the black berry that didn’t hurt the NWSG?

Pastureguard

 

[Native Hunter]

I know you told me once but what did you spray for the black berry that didn’t hurt the NWSG?

Remedy Ultra.

 

[Turkish]

Tagged

To contribute, most may have already seen this. https://extension.tennessee.edu/publications/Documents/PB1855.pdf

 

[Native Hunter]

Here is another picture or two that might interest everyone. This is a damper area. I planted nothing in these pictures except the fruit trees you see in the second pic. It all came from the seedbank.

Sometimes, it's not what you plant - It's what you KILL that matters.

 

[Telemark]

Do you find deer use in these areas to be less in the fall and winter?

Yes. In my experience they move into dense pines or cedars later in the year.

 

[BenAllgood]

Yes. In my experience they move into dense pines or cedars later in the year.

Interesting. I wonder if it's because of the area and density of the structure. Maybe in more northern climates, tall grasses and brush don't offer the same thermal cover.

 

[Telemark]

Maybe in more northern climates, tall grasses and brush don't offer the same thermal cover

That seems to be the case. I've found them bedded in relatively open forest in the winter in Ohio, but not when there is wind or precipitation. And I can't ever remember seeing beds in grasses late in the year.

 

[Native Hunter]

Interesting. I wonder if it's because of the area and density of the structure. Maybe in more northern climates, tall grasses and brush don't offer the same thermal cover.

Ben, in our area remote red cedar fence row that the tall fields come up against are popular bedding and congregating spots in the fall and winter.

 

[DrDirtNap]

I know you told me once but what did you spray for the black berry that didn’t hurt the NWSG?

Remedy Ultra.

Steve, I know exactly what your saying about blackberry completely engulfing a field. I’m at the point where I have to spray. I was wondering what rate of Remedy Ultra have you found to be effective? Thanks


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[Native Hunter]

Steve, I know exactly what your saying about blackberry completely engulfing a field. I’m at the point where I have to spray. I was wondering what rate of Remedy Ultra have you found to be effective? Thanks


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It's been 2 years now and I have forgotten the rate. I do know that we looked at the label and went with what it said. I also made sure to use the recommended type of surfactant. That was the first time I had used Remedy Ultra. Before that I had used Crossbow (only spot spraying) at the recommended rate for briers and had decent results.

The Remedy Ultra did a good job. This spring I noticed just a couple of places that needs to be hit next spring with spot spraying, but I know that eventually it might all need to be done again.

 

[DrDirtNap]

Steve, I know exactly what your saying about blackberry completely engulfing a field. I’m at the point where I have to spray. I was wondering what rate of Remedy Ultra have you found to be effective? Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's been 2 years now and I have forgotten the rate. I do know that we looked at the label and went with what it said. I also made sure to use the recommended type of surfactant. That was the first time I had used Remedy Ultra. Before that I had used Crossbow (only spot spraying) at the recommended rate for briers and had decent results.

The Remedy Ultra did a good job. This spring I noticed just a couple of places that needs to be hit next spring with spot spraying, but I know that eventually it might all need to be done again.

Thanks for the info. Do you not burn any of your grass stands ?
I try to burn once every three years. Seems the blackberry briers flourish after a good burn.



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[Turkish]

Sometimes, it's not what you plant - It's what you KILL that matters.

That’s the theme of the Dr Harper article I posted. Good stuff.