New Quail section

[omicron1792]

It’s habitat guys. I think all the other things play a role, but a distant second to habitat.

The issue with quail habitat is it needs to be quite large to allow for movement. I can do my part on my farm, but if one covey gets taken out and there is no habitat around to support other quail there is no way to fill in the void.

Also people plant NWSG way too thick. 3-5lbs an acre max. Need bare dirt around grass for birds to run and hide in grass clumps from predators. Also allows forbs to fill in.

I’m part of a quail trail through the black belt in Alabama. Goal is to have a continuous stretch of good habitat to let the populations rebuild.

Alabama Quail Trail | AWF

The goal of the Alabama Quail Trail AQT is to focus the interest and resources in quail hunting quail research and quail conservation in a manner that achi

www.alabamawildlife.org

 

[SwampCat]

I know a place not far from me - managed as native Blackland prairie. A lot of burning, nwsg, native forbs, 5000 acres. I am not saying there are not a few birds on the place - but I have never heard or seen one.

I think it a lot like ducks - water doesnt make ducks - ducks make ducks. I have some great looking duck holes - well protected, native smart weeds and millets. To my knowledge, not a single duck has visited any of my duck holes this year.

 

[jsasker007]

Do they go in cycles? Population wise that is, like rabbits cycle about every seven years you have a "bumper crop" and then hardly see any.

 

[Turkey Creek]

Do they go in cycles? Population wise that is, like rabbits cycle about every seven years you have a "bumper crop" and then hardly see any.

Quail nesting success is highly dependent on the weather. Mortality is extremely high in quail, most never even make it to a year of age, thus one of the reasons that habitat is critical for them. Combine poor habitat and a high natural mortality rate and you can see why they struggle. The good thing is that they produce large clutches of eggs, typically 10 -12 eggs per nest, again depending on the hen's BMI and hens will often nest more than 1x per nesting season. Nesting season is long as well, nests can be initiated up into early Fall. In a great year you can see a huge surge in quail numbers simply from a good nesting season, but then you have natural mortality and if the following nesting season is poor then you have a lot less quail. There are no population cycles like in terms of too many on the landscape and therefore the population crashes due to lack of food or disease out breaks. At least I have never come across any literature that suggests that.

 

[Catscratch]

Soybeans have a chemical in them (T2-mycotoxin) that hurts quail. There are way more acres of beans than milo (in my area). Back in the day it was reversed. I wonder how much of an effect that has had?

 

[SwampCat]

Soybeans have a chemical in them (T2-mycotoxin) that hurts quail. There are way more acres of beans than milo (in my area). Back in the day it was reversed. I wonder how much of an effect that has had?

It may have an effect in your area - I dont know - but the quail population is next to nothing in commercial timberland areas where I live - where there has never been an AG crop in those counties, nor plowing from fence row to fence row, nor spraying of the fence rows. The clearcuts and thinned pine are still there - but the quail are not.

 

[SwampCat]

Quail nesting success is highly dependent on the weather. Mortality is extremely high in quail, most never even make it to a year of age, thus one of the reasons that habitat is critical for them. Combine poor habitat and a high natural mortality rate and you can see why they struggle. The good thing is that they produce large clutches of eggs, typically 10 -12 eggs per nest, again depending on the hen's BMI and hens will often nest more than 1x per nesting season. Nesting season is long as well, nests can be initiated up into early Fall. In a great year you can see a huge surge in quail numbers simply from a good nesting season, but then you have natural mortality and if the following nesting season is poor then you have a lot less quail. There are no population cycles like in terms of too many on the landscape and therefore the population crashes due to lack of food or disease out breaks. At least I have never come across any literature that suggests that.

Interesting that you bring up BMI - or body mass index - of the quail. Tall Timbers plantation used to actively trap cotton rats - because they do sometimes destroy quail eggs. But, in later years they realized the cotton rats were the number one prey species for most of the area predators - and with reduced cotton rat numbers - the predators pursued more quail to replace the lack of cotton rats.

In some areas, Tall timbers has a supplemental feeding program for their quail. They spread milo with a vehicle so the birds are not congregating around a feeder where they would be subjected to higher rates of predation. Milo is used because hogs and deer are not as likely to feed on it. Feeding on milo raises the BMI of the quail - and as stated - increases the number of eggs and number of young. They also dont have to forage as much, so their exposure to predators is lower.

In addition, the feeding of the milo increases the BMI of the cotton rats, which then results in increased litter sizes, providing more food for predators so they are less likely to prey on quail.

Some of these subtle interrelationships between species - both animal and plant - are very interesting - and often discovered by accident. It is interesting to me - on my place - that cotton rats are now almost absent. I used to bush hog a two or three acre spot and see dozens of them. Now, I can bush hog all afternoon and might not see one. When I bought my place in 2003 - there was still a covey of quail, there were a lot of rabbits, a lot of turkeys - and a ton of cotton rats. I also used to see a lot of snakes - especially black rat snakes, blue racers, coachwhips, and king snakes. I would often see multiple snakes in a day. Now I dont see five snakes in a year. There is nothing for them to eat.

I have not yet started managing my cotton rats - but I have been thinking about it.

 

[bwoods11]

What would be the top 2 or 3 quail shrubs ??

I have some quail on my farm inWestern Iowa .

 

[Catscratch]

Interesting that you bring up BMI - or body mass index - of the quail. Tall Timbers plantation used to actively trap cotton rats - because they do sometimes destroy quail eggs. But, in later years they realized the cotton rats were the number one prey species for most of the area predators - and with reduced cotton rat numbers - the predators pursued more quail to replace the lack of cotton rats.

In some areas, Tall timbers has a supplemental feeding program for their quail. They spread milo with a vehicle so the birds are not congregating around a feeder where they would be subjected to higher rates of predation. Milo is used because hogs and deer are not as likely to feed on it. Feeding on milo raises the BMI of the quail - and as stated - increases the number of eggs and number of young. They also dont have to forage as much, so their exposure to predators is lower.

In addition, the feeding of the milo increases the BMI of the cotton rats, which then results in increased litter sizes, providing more food for predators so they are less likely to prey on quail.

Some of these subtle interrelationships between species - both animal and plant - are very interesting - and often discovered by accident. It is interesting to me - on my place - that cotton rats are now almost absent. I used to bush hog a two or three acre spot and see dozens of them. Now, I can bush hog all afternoon and might not see one. When I bought my place in 2003 - there was still a covey of quail, there were a lot of rabbits, a lot of turkeys - and a ton of cotton rats. I also used to see a lot of snakes - especially black rat snakes, blue racers, coachwhips, and king snakes. I would often see multiple snakes in a day. Now I dont see five snakes in a year. There is nothing for them to eat.

I have not yet started managing my cotton rats - but I have been thinking about it.

If I remember correctly there were some studies out of TX that indicated yotes killed more nest predators than they themselves prey'd on quail eggs. Indicated it was better to leave them alone than to trap a bunch. Of course if you were trapping yotes you'd likely be trapping coons and skunks also so take that info for what it's worth.

 

[SwampCat]

If I remember correctly there were some studies out of TX that indicated yotes killed more nest predators than they themselves prey'd on quail eggs. Indicated it was better to leave them alone than to trap a bunch. Of course if you were trapping yotes you'd likely be trapping coons and skunks also so take that info for what it's worth.

That may be - down there. On my place - I have never had a coon or possum eaten in a trap - in 43 years of living and trapping here. I usually catch 40 to 75 coons/possums/skunks each year. Now, I will have skunks eaten in traps when I shoot them and leave them lay to get out the next day. We have quite a few skunks, possums, and coons - and coyotes. I cant believe coyotes are killing many of the coons and possums - they are easy to catch - my dog does it all the time. A coyote is smart enough to figure out a corn feeder would supply a lot of coons - yet the coons keep coming and there is rarely a picture of a coyote at a feeder location.

Maybe in texas - but not in AR 40 miles from Texas.

I leave most of the coyotes, anyway - not on purpose - I am not much of a coyote trapper.

 

[Catscratch]

That may be - down there. On my place - I have never had a coon or possum eaten in a trap - in 43 years of living and trapping here. I usually catch 40 to 75 coons/possums/skunks each year. Now, I will have skunks eaten in traps when I shoot them and leave them lay to get out the next day. We have quite a few skunks, possums, and coons - and coyotes. I cant believe coyotes are killing many of the coons and possums - they are easy to catch - my dog does it all the time. A coyote is smart enough to figure out a corn feeder would supply a lot of coons - yet the coons keep coming and there is rarely a picture of a coyote at a feeder location.

Maybe in texas - but not in AR 40 miles from Texas.

I leave most of the coyotes, anyway - not on purpose - I am not much of a coyote trapper.

Actually what I took from it is that yotes probably aren't that significant of a quail predator. I also seem to never find eaten coons but I have trapped yotes around a coon carcass several times. With that said I think it is more a curiosity attractant than a bait.

 

[SwampCat]

Actually what I took from it is that yotes probably aren't that significant of a quail predator. I also seem to never find eaten coons but I have trapped yotes around a coon carcass several times. With that said I think it is more a curiosity attractant than a bait.

I agree 100% - I dont believe yotes are big time quail nest destroyers. Coons, possums, skunks, and snakes probably top that list - by far.

I throw my dead coons and possums in my "bone yard" They often stay there until they just rot away - unless the buzzards eat them. Skunks are different - critters around here like to eat a dead skunk.

 

[Turkey Creek]

What would be the top 2 or 3 quail shrubs ??

I have some quail on my farm inWestern Iowa .

American Plum, Gray Dogwood or possibly other dog wood varieties depending on your planting site, Buckbrush and sumac to some extent. The species that are thicket forming are the best. As stem density is high shading out other vegetation and making it hard for predators to get to the birds that are in the thicket. Randomly planted shrubs have low value as compared to shrubs planted on 3-4' spacing in clusters which can form a thicket faster. Also you would be able to cage some planting locations to keep deer from browsing them hard while they establish.

 

[Triple C]

Glad to see this added to the forum! We’ve had a steady increase in quail population as habitat conditions continue to improve. Not much I enjoy more than sitting on the front porch of cabin and hearing mating calls in June.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

American Plum, Gray Dogwood or possibly other dog wood varieties depending on your planting site, Buckbrush and sumac to some extent. The species that are thicket forming are the best. As stem density is high shading out other vegetation and making it hard for predators to get to the birds that are in the thicket. Randomly planted shrubs have low value as compared to shrubs planted on 3-4' spacing in clusters which can form a thicket faster. Also you would be able to cage some planting locations to keep deer from browsing them hard while they establish.

I've kicked some out of a hazelnut thicket as well. I ordered some elderberry from MDC this year for a few of my thickets, based on some surrounding state's recommendations.

 

[omicron1792]

My state biologist claims that no planted crop is a significant source of food for quail.

He is also adamantly against brush piles because of how good they are for nesting predators.

We also talk a lot about not having alleys that turkey and birds walk down eating with bobcats. Apparently they have a memory that allows them to almost memorize those types of kill zones and it really increases predation.

I have 2-5 wild coveys on my property. I will often bump them when out and about. Most of my wildlife management is for quail habitat, and the deer and turkey reap the benefits.

I think coons are a big issue, but not sure there is much that can be done about it. My buddy has 800 acres and they keep live traps going all the time. They recently caught their 228th coon over last several years. Apparently they kind of keep their own population in check with ranges they live in. If you kill one then another just fills into that range. Takes a ton of work ro decrease the population long term.

 

[SwampCat]

My state biologist claims that no planted crop is a significant source of food for quail.

He is also adamantly against brush piles because of how good they are for nesting predators.

We also talk a lot about not having alleys that turkey and birds walk down eating with bobcats. Apparently they have a memory that allows them to almost memorize those types of kill zones and it really increases predation.

I have 2-5 wild coveys on my property. I will often bump them when out and about. Most of my wildlife management is for quail habitat, and the deer and turkey reap the benefits.

I think coons are a big issue, but not sure there is much that can be done about it. My buddy has 800 acres and they keep live traps going all the time. They recently caught their 228th coon over last several years. Apparently they kind of keep their own population in check with ranges they live in. If you kill one then another just fills into that range. Takes a ton of work ro decrease the population long term.

I think the trapping has to be done in spring - Apr, May, and June. I will go from three or four coons on a feeder in Mar to zero or one in May. It will take four to six months for numbers to come back - and in that time, the poults - or quail, will be hatched and flying

 

[omicron1792]

I think the trapping has to be done in spring - Apr, May, and June. I will go from three or four coons on a feeder in Mar to zero or one in May. It will take four to six months for numbers to come back - and in that time, the poults - or quail, will be hatched and flying

Oh I agree with you.

Turns out coyote and bobcat eat raccoons. I wonder if keeping some of them to beat down the raccoons would help.

 

[SwampCat]

Oh I agree with you.

Turns out coyote and bobcat eat raccoons. I wonder if keeping some of them to beat down the raccoons would help.

All I can say about that is this - in 55 years of trapping - I have never had a coon or a possum killed and/or eaten in a trap. Wherever that is happening, the coyotes and bobcats are hungrier than here. At my place, they wont even eat coons or possums in my bone yard. Skunks are a completely different matter. I usually shoot skunks in a trap one day to leave and get out the next. Usually by the next day, something has pulled them out of the trap.

 

[Ikeman]

Interesting that you bring up BMI - or body mass index - of the quail. Tall Timbers plantation used to actively trap cotton rats - because they do sometimes destroy quail eggs. But, in later years they realized the cotton rats were the number one prey species for most of the area predators - and with reduced cotton rat numbers - the predators pursued more quail to replace the lack of cotton rats.

In some areas, Tall timbers has a supplemental feeding program for their quail. They spread milo with a vehicle so the birds are not congregating around a feeder where they would be subjected to higher rates of predation. Milo is used because hogs and deer are not as likely to feed on it. Feeding on milo raises the BMI of the quail - and as stated - increases the number of eggs and number of young. They also dont have to forage as much, so their exposure to predators is lower.

In addition, the feeding of the milo increases the BMI of the cotton rats, which then results in increased litter sizes, providing more food for predators so they are less likely to prey on quail.

Some of these subtle interrelationships between species - both animal and plant - are very interesting - and often discovered by accident. It is interesting to me - on my place - that cotton rats are now almost absent. I used to bush hog a two or three acre spot and see dozens of them. Now, I can bush hog all afternoon and might not see one. When I bought my place in 2003 - there was still a covey of quail, there were a lot of rabbits, a lot of turkeys - and a ton of cotton rats. I also used to see a lot of snakes - especially black rat snakes, blue racers, coachwhips, and king snakes. I would often see multiple snakes in a day. Now I dont see five snakes in a year. There is nothing for them to eat.

I have not yet started managing my cotton rats - but I have been thinking about it.

Texas A&M university also found a correlation between healthy coyote populations and higher nesting success in quail… the coyotes prey heavier on the skunks, raccoons, and opossums than they do on the quail. And those species that the coyote preys on happen to prey heavily on quail nests.


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