New Quail section

[Catscratch]

When I was a kid in the early 90’s I remember a few coveys from time to time on my parent’s place. Haven’t seen or heard one in YEARS. Three things, I think, lead to the demise in quail numbers here in North Texas.

1.) Herbicides. This is cattle country, and fields have been sprayed clean from fencerow to fencerow for decades. Because of this, nesting habitat is poor, the grasses are FAR too thick at ground level for poults, and there are hardly any food sources left for winter.

2.) Loss of trapping. Fur prices and social changes have led to a catastrophic drop in trapper numbers, which in turn has led to nest predator numbers that are SKY HIGH. Nest predation is insanely high.

3.) Fire Ants. In a 1995-2000 research project, Texas Parks and Wildlife found that invasive red fire ant populations accounted for up to 75% of annual quail abundance variation. Quail are a fragile species as it is, but you throw an ADDITIONAL stressor with 75% mortality in the mix and they don’t stand a chance.


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You are the first person (besides me) that I've talked with that thinks pasture spraying has something to do with it. Aerial spraying of pastures has become very popular up here. Thousands and thousands of acres sprayed yearly. Their cocktails kill all broadleafs and forbs, only leave grasses. I also think this is important for our loss of prairie chickens too. No forbs, no seeds, no bugs, no birds.

 

[T-Max]

My dad is soooooo guilty of that. He said just this past summer that he is going to spray the wild alfalfa that we have in the pasture. He said it gets too caught in the fence for his liking (the tops almost become small tumbleweeds here). I said, "It is a legume. It has to be good for the grass." He said he has never seen a cow eat it, so it has to go. That is also what happened to our sumac, plum, dogwood, you name it................

 

[Ikeman]

You are the first person (besides me) that I've talked with that thinks pasture spraying has something to do with it. Aerial spraying of pastures has become very popular up here. Thousands and thousands of acres sprayed yearly. Their cocktails kill all broadleafs and forbs, only leave grasses. I also think this is important for our loss of prairie chickens too. No forbs, no seeds, no bugs, no birds.

It blows my mind that people can’t see this. All you have to do is look at the research on quail forage by season and realize that the winter seed sources (almost the entirety of their calorie intake in winter) are exactly what we are targeting with herbicides.

Here in Texas, the top winter calorie sources are these species… of the list, only the Panicum and Brown Top Millet will survive a broadleaf herbicide application.

Annual broomweed
Browntop millet
Buffalobur Bundleflower
Catclaws
Dotted gayfeather
Doveweed
Filaree
Gray coldenia
Mesquite
Milkvetch
Netleaf hackberry
Panicum
Snow-on-the-mountain
Spreading sida
Western ragweed
Wolfberry
Important

We waged war on their habitat, and the fire ants took the last shot for us.


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[Ikeman]

My dad is soooooo guilty of that. He said just this past summer that he is going to spray the wild alfalfa that we have in the pasture. He said it gets too caught in the fence for his liking (the tops almost become small tumbleweeds here). I said, "It is a legume. It has to be good for the grass." He said he has never seen a cow eat it, so it has to go. That is also what happened to our sumac, plum, dogwood, you name it................

Before he does that, have take some samples of the young tender tips in the spring and send them off for analysis… (usually only about $15-$20 a sample)
I will bet you the samples come back with sky high protein on the tender shoots. The trick is to not let it senesce. Clipping can help with that. Also, their root system can be 10 FEET deep. Excellent nutrient accumulator plant!


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[Turkey Creek]

The thing about good quail habitat is it is pretty easy to recognize it when you see it. I can take you to some specific spots up home in Nebraska that if we walk it we are going to bump quail out of pretty much year after year. I made a 30 mile trip this morning to run an errand, took the backroads both ways. I did not see a single parcel that looked like good quail habitat, and I made that my goal to find on the drive.

 

[Ikeman]

The biggest problem around me for trying to get a population going is that the few parcels that have decent habitat are too small, and not contiguous. East Texas is having some success in the piney woods, west Texas is dry enough that ranchers don’t spray as often (or at all) to reduce forbs. West Texas is dry enough to keep the fire ant populations from flourishing too.
But in my area… we will have a hard go of quail restoration.


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[SwampCat]

Quail Nest Predator Index – using Tall Timbers as a threshold test site - Tall Timbers

Quail Nest Predator Index – using Tall Timbers as a threshold test site By Bill Palmer, Game Bird Program Director In our studies of nest predation we have developed a […]

talltimbers.org

Here is a good easy test. I have done this using both scent tablets and incidental observation while trapping. But realize, visits can be much higher at the scent stations than at a trap because you are only counting trapped animals - not just animals that placed their foot in a 3 ft circle. They are talking 15 to 20 visits per 100 scent stations is the threshold for reduction of predators. When I did it with scent tablets, I had a visitation rate of just over sixty percent. Last June, during nesting season, in two nights with 9 dp traps, I caught six coons and three possums for a CATCH RATE of fifty percent - let alone a visitation rate.

And tall timbers noted a reduction in nest success when the visitation rate was 20% - in probably the best quail habitat in the country.

 

[Ikeman]

I keep saying I’m going to get into trapping. I’ve got a buddy whose family has a few thousand acres in a couple hours from here that are trying to increase the turkey population as well. I’m not sure if they have quail on the place. I don’t think it would be hard to get trapping permission out there, and they are a large enough piece to actually make a difference.


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[swat1018]

She is a French Brittany or more formally an Epagneul Breton

My buddy bought a French Brittany out of Georgia. That thing is a natural.

 

[Turkey Creek]

The biggest problem around me for trying to get a population going is that the few parcels that have decent habitat are too small, and not contiguous. East Texas is having some success in the piney woods, west Texas is dry enough that ranchers don’t spray as often (or at all) to reduce forbs. West Texas is dry enough to keep the fire ant populations from flourishing too.
But in my area… we will have a hard go of quail restoration.


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The biggest problem around me for trying to get a population going is that the few parcels that have decent habitat are too small, and not contiguous

I am not willing to give this theory as much belief as some folks do. It has been one mentioned and floated by a few people. I would want to see proof of this, problem being how do you make this an experiment? Setting up a isolated parcel with good habitat and then stocking birds? Only thing I can think of is that they assume genetic inbreeding will lead to demise of the existing birds or that one environmental event can wipe out that isolated population and then it cant recruit enough new individuals to repopulate, which might be plausible. They say a population is not sustainable without "large" tracts of habitat, but they never say why that I have heard. Covey home ranges are anywhere from 15 to 40 acres on average, in good habitat typically averaging just under a bird/ acre to be considered high population density. So if I have say 80 acres in good quail habitat I should be able to maintain at least 1-2 coveys with 15 to 20 birds in each.

 

[Gravel Road]

My buddy bought a French Brittany out of Georgia. That thing is a natural.

Maybe Hannahatchee Kennels? They are supposed to be fantastic. Mine is a natural too. She's my first bird dog and makes it seem so easy. She only weighs 27 lbs, but she's a fireball in the field.

 

[SwampCat]

I am not willing to give this theory as much belief as some folks do. It has been one mentioned and floated by a few people. I would want to see proof of this, problem being how do you make this an experiment? Setting up a isolated parcel with good habitat and then stocking birds? Only thing I can think of is that they assume genetic inbreeding will lead to demise of the existing birds or that one environmental event can wipe out that isolated population and then it cant recruit enough new individuals to repopulate, which might be plausible. They say a population is not sustainable without "large" tracts of habitat, but they never say why that I have heard. Covey home ranges are anywhere from 15 to 40 acres on average, in good habitat typically averaging just under a bird/ acre to be considered high population density. So if I have say 80 acres in good quail habitat I should be able to maintain at least 1-2 coveys with 15 to 20 birds in each.

I have what I consider decent habitat - maybe 15 acres primarily little bluestem - a lot of cedars along the edges, additional acreage of wheat clover food plots interspersed, plenty of water. I know a guy who has some great pen raised birds - as in when putting them out, some fly out of sight. For the ones that get away - 3 weeks is about as long as they make it. A few weeks ago, we put some out and came back with the dog 30 minutes later and one had already been caught and eaten by a red shouldered hawk.

 

[Turkey Creek]

One of my Grandpas always had a GSP for as long as I can remember. I adopted a year old Brittney once hoping I could make her into a upland dog it didnt work out! LOL I have always been a Lab guy, I have trained a few of them. One of my fondest days hunting with a dog was just me and a Yellow Lab I had for a number of years. It just clicked in her mind one day that quail were the target. Bumped a covey with her and then we spent the better part of the next 2 hours tracking down singles. She would get all birdy when she had one found and she hunted close so I didnt have to take any long shots. It was so much fun watching her work. I think I shot 4 or 5 birds that day. It was a hunt I remember all the time.

 

[T-Max]

What mechanism causes a new covey to form? Is it dispersion like young bucks? Are quail chicks programmed to go on an excursion? Do 2 coveys of 30 birds find each other and 3 coveys of 20 birds leave or 4 coveys of 15? I’ll probably feel stupid when I find out.


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[Howboutthemdawgs]

I have what I consider decent habitat - maybe 15 acres primarily little bluestem - a lot of cedars along the edges, additional acreage of wheat clover food plots interspersed, plenty of water. I know a guy who has some great pen raised birds - as in when putting them out, some fly out of sight. For the ones that get away - 3 weeks is about as long as they make it. A few weeks ago, we put some out and came back with the dog 30 minutes later and one had already been caught and eaten by a red shouldered hawk.

You touched on s ga plantations earlier. That hawk would no longer be with us down there!

 

[SwampCat]

You touched on s ga plantations earlier. That hawk would no longer be with us down there!

I think that is something anyone who is going to try to re-establish quail is going to have to be willing to do. Sharpshinned and coopers hawks move in on my dove fields mid summer when I have a decent crop of doves. I am not sure they dont run them off - they kill dozens of them.

 

[SwampCat]

What mechanism causes a new covey to form? Is it dispersion like young bucks? Are quail chicks programmed to go on an excursion? Do 2 coveys of 30 birds find each other and 3 coveys of 20 birds leave or 4 coveys of 15? I’ll probably feel stupid when I find out.


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Covies go through a spring breakup and dispersal at the onset of breeding season

 

[T-Max]

Covies go through a spring breakup and dispersal at the onset of breeding season

See... That is so obvious! At least you let me down easy...

 

[H20fwler]

When I was a kid I used to bump a covey every day running the trap line, even though I knew they would be in the area they still made me jump when they blew out. The blizzard of 78 and clean farming did them in here.
There are a few counties that have sparse numbers in southern part of state.

I raise a couple dozen every summer to work the dog, then release them in our pasture. Some have survived over a month, love hearing them in October when I’m in a tree stand.

They are crack cocaine to my girl Darcy! Her #1 bird, I take her down to KY and chase wild ones.






My number #1 dream hunt hunt would be to hunt them gentlemen style in Georgia from a mule drawn wagon old school.
One of these days!

 

[Turkey Creek]

Covies go through a spring breakup and dispersal at the onset of breeding season

There is a "Fall Shuffle" as well, where a few of the birds will disperse into adjoining coveys. Covey size early in the Fall is more a factor of successful nesting by a hen and multiple broods by the same hen within one nesting season. As you close in on Winter some smaller coveys combine.