Masks vs viruses

[Jerry-B-WI]

Osha wants to know if my employees follow the proper procedure to insert ear plugs too.

And if you don't you're not a very good employer.

 

[omicron1792]

Omicron1792, with so much passion spent on discussing masks I'm very curious to hear your take on actual concern regarding COVID itself now that we're in 2023.

Not asking these questions to pick a fight, not asking to win any points/arguments, just sincerely interested on your take,

1) Are you continuing to social distance from others and wearing masks in public?
2) Are you concerned that enough natural immunity hasn't been developed among the masses (with almost everyone now having had covid) to offer at least relatively decent protection against death for all but those severely immunocompromised ?
3) Do you doubt journal data published showing higher myocarditis risks with shots than the actual virus? Doubt the studies showing elevated clotting/stroke risks with the shots?

Depending on your answers to the above, if you're not overly alarmed at the risk of the actual virus today in its current form, I'm not sure I understand the time and passion being spent devoted to arguing over masking.

I appreciate the thread started with a focus on masks, but if not especially scared of the virus at this time due to numerous factors that have changed with time (shots, natural immunity, virus mutating away from lower respiratory to less critical upper respiratory, etc, etc, etc) is the mask fight even one worth so much debate?

And it's not even like the government has been consistent regarding the masks/ongoing risks in any way, shape, or form. If you're still socially distancing and consistently masked when in public I'll at least give you credit for consistency.

I hate internet debates truly. Mainly for this reason.

Read my posts. I said masks don't really work. That the government forcing them on people was wrong. That there is probably a mild benefit for well fitting n95 masks along health care workers.

Where in the world did you get I’m for social distancing and forced vaccination?

I stepped in when the debate was saying n95 aren’t respirators, they aren’t fitted in a health care setting, that them letting any particles through was a total failure. All of those were false and needed to be corrected.

Knowing the truth on issues makes us stronger in our debates, not weaker. Learning from an expert in a field, even if you disagree with them, shows maturity and humility. I learn so much from people here that know a ton more than me on many things.

I addressed the vaccine issue in two other threads. No vaccine is perfect, and I think a young healthy male not getting the vaccine is a valid move. I think the data on boosters not tailored to the dominant strain is poor also.

I doubt many people here are young men. Most here have comorbities and would benefit from the vaccine, based on the data and the data alone.

Hope that answers your questions.

 

[Jerry-B-WI]

I have worn respirators of all types for me entire career. Never have I seen or heard of anyone fit testing for a paper test. For a molded half face or full face respirator yes but for a n95 paper mask, no never. It would be utterly pointless as other than the 2 inch piece of metal over the bridge of your nose there is nothing to adjust.
As far as the mist, it's used to locate leaks in the mask between your face and the body of the mask. If you can smell/taste it the mask doesn't fit right, if you can't smell/taste it you are good.
I am the guy who performed those tests for my company. Fairly well versed in the uses of all types of respirators.

All I'm saying is what my employer did. And yes if you smelled\/tasted the mist and readjusted the N95 you could change the seal and stop the leak.

I was trained and wore a variety of respiratory protection devices through my life also. Started with OBA's in the Navy, A3 and A4 models, Full Face, Escape, and SCBA's in the pulp and paper industry, and Half Face and N95 at my last employer.

 

[Garrett S]

OSHA only cites and finds fault with employers, never employees. Fact- not opinion.

As someone who knows occupational safety very well- there are a number of incorrect statements on this thread. N95/P100 disposable filtering face-piece respirators rarely can be used in a known contaminate atmosphere and we aren’t anywhere near the ineffective nature of the surgeon or dust mask style.

 

[jsasker007]

And if you don't you're not a very good employer.

Sounded like a personal call out there? Common sense should help you through this process. Not to mention the instructions are in plain sight on the box you take them from. Don't tell me I'm not a good employer knowing nothing about what I do.

 

[Jerry-B-WI]

Sounded like a personal call out there? Common sense should help you through this process. Not to mention the instructions are in plain sight on the box you take them from. Don't tell me I'm not a good employer knowing nothing about what I do.

No sir, no personal call out. Just saying that from my personal experience with people throughout my life you can't depend on them to use any common sense that they may or may not have. Hence my belief that the employer should make sure to enforce any and all safety regulations.

 

[Bill Loser]

Different sizes and fit masks. Proper adjustment.

There is nothing to adjust.....

OSHA only cites and finds fault with employers, never employees. Fact- not opinion.

As someone who knows occupational safety very well- there are a number of incorrect statements on this thread. N95/P100 disposable filtering face-piece respirators rarely can be used in a known contaminate atmosphere and we aren’t anywhere near the ineffective nature of the surgeon or dust mask style.

Unless something changed p100 and n95 are totally different . One is a paper mask and the other is a cartridge that goes on an actual respirator.if I misread your post I apologize.

 

[Mtyhunter]

No sir, no personal call out. Just saying that from my personal experience with people throughout my life you can't depend on them to use any common sense that they may or may not have. Hence my belief that the employer should make sure to enforce any and all safety regulations.

i've got to agree with ya Jerry. I've managed ppl that could f up an anvil with a rubber mallet. And when they do, the employers will be responsible.
i know i've used this one before, but it seems to apply yet again.

 

[Bill Loser]

Different sizes and fit masks. Proper adjustment.

There is nothing to adjust.....

You can move the respirator up, down and side to side to adjust the fit. You can adjust the bands and the nose clip for fit. They also make different style N95's if the conventional one we all see doesn't work for you.

You wouldn't believe how many people I've seen put on a N95 and not use the bands correctly, then bitch thay the things don't work.

They are rubber bands......

 

[Mtyhunter]

I hate internet debates truly. Mainly for this reason.

Read my posts. I said masks don't really work. That the government forcing them on people was wrong. That there is probably a mild benefit for well fitting n95 masks along health care workers.

Where in the world did you get I’m for social distancing and forced vaccination?

I stepped in when the debate was saying n95 aren’t respirators, they aren’t fitted in a health care setting, that them letting any particles through was a total failure. All of those were false and needed to be corrected.

Knowing the truth on issues makes us stronger in our debates, not weaker. Learning from an expert in a field, even if you disagree with them, shows maturity and humility. I learn so much from people here that know a ton more than me on many things.

I addressed the vaccine issue in two other threads. No vaccine is perfect, and I think a young healthy male not getting the vaccine is a valid move. I think the data on boosters not tailored to the dominant strain is poor also.

I doubt many people here are young men. Most here have comorbities and would benefit from the vaccine, based on the data and the data alone.

Hope that answers your questions.

you gotta listen to a guy with name like Omicron when it comes to this stuff! j/k
Personally, I like your feedback (on this subject, lol). Your opinions/data mirror what a good friend of mine, who's also a Dr, says. He's a well grounded guy and knows his business, inside and out.
Don't get the big-head now!

 

[bigbendmarine]

I hate internet debates truly. Mainly for this reason.

Read my posts. I said masks don't really work. That the government forcing them on people was wrong. That there is probably a mild benefit for well fitting n95 masks along health care workers.

Where in the world did you get I’m for social distancing and forced vaccination?

I stepped in when the debate was saying n95 aren’t respirators, they aren’t fitted in a health care setting, that them letting any particles through was a total failure. All of those were false and needed to be corrected.

Knowing the truth on issues makes us stronger in our debates, not weaker. Learning from an expert in a field, even if you disagree with them, shows maturity and humility. I learn so much from people here that know a ton more than me on many things.

I addressed the vaccine issue in two other threads. No vaccine is perfect, and I think a young healthy male not getting the vaccine is a valid move. I think the data on boosters not tailored to the dominant strain is poor also.

I doubt many people here are young men. Most here have comorbities and would benefit from the vaccine, based on the data and the data alone.

Hope that answers your questions.

Appreciate the points in the reply, and promise I haven't seen your other posts... I stay busy enough, as I'm certain you do too, that I can't imagine following all threads. I may read a handful a day, and most regarding deer / habitat work.

If you re-read my questions to you I clearly said I was asking NOT in anger or to incite debate... that I was legitimately curious on your thoughts, especially after you shared you're a surgeon.

Your answers match my own for the most part... the clotting/stroke risk sounding like maybe the only major one where we differ, and as I shared way back in this thread my own are admittedly likely biased due to my wife, a MD, devoted to her own personal heatlh having a transient ischemic attack shortly after getting the shots.

As I'm sure you'll understand, with her being a well known doctor in our community the hospital system ran every test known to man for 2 days before agreeing to release her. They found her to be in exceptional shape (she exercises religiously daily and has done so since her teens) and couldn't find a single factor (no meds, non-smoker, no health factors) to explain the TIA. With multiple studies pointing to clotting issues and increased stroke risks, it's been tough not jumping the gun to blame the shots, but I promise we sure didn't do so in advance of the data.

As also shared earlier in this thread, before adverse data was so well recognized we not only got the shots but walked multiple friends and family members into getting them as well.

Back to your answers, indeed appreciated.

 

[omicron1792]

you gotta listen to a guy with name like Omicron when it comes to this stuff! j/k
Personally, I like your feedback (on this subject, lol). Your opinions/data mirror what a good friend of mine, who's also a Dr, says. He's a well grounded guy and knows his business, inside and out.
Don't get the big-head now!

My wife makes sure of that!

 

[Jerry-B-WI]

There is nothing to adjust.....

They are rubber bands......

I know, right, but if you don't place them properly you won't get a seal.

 

[omicron1792]

Appreciate the points in the reply, and promise I haven't seen your other posts... I stay busy enough, as I'm certain you do too, that I can't imagine following all threads. I may read a handful a day, and most regarding deer / habitat work.

If you re-read my questions to you I clearly said I was asking NOT in anger or to incite debate... that I was legitimately curious on your thoughts, especially after you shared you're a surgeon.

Your answers match my own for the most part... the clotting/stroke risk sounding like maybe the only major one where we differ, and as I shared way back in this thread my own are admittedly likely biased due to my wife, a MD, devoted to her own personal heatlh having a transient ischemic attack shortly after getting the shots.

As I'm sure you'll understand, with her being a well known doctor in our community the hospital system ran every test known to man for 2 days before agreeing to release her. They found her to be in exceptional shape (she exercises religiously daily and has done so since her teens) and couldn't find a single factor(no meds, non-smoker, no health factors) to explain the TIA. With multiple studies pointing to clotting issues and increased stroke risks, it's been tough not jumping the gun to blame the shots, but I promise we sure didn't do so in advance of the data. As also shared earlier in this thread, before adverse data was so well recognized we not only got the shots but walked multiple friends and family members into getting them as well.

Back to your answers, indeed appreciated.

Sorry about your wife. I have little doubt it was from the shot.

 

[Bill Loser]

I know, right, but if you don't place them properly you won't get a seal.

It's literally paper on skin....there is no seal to get.
Look at it, what exactly do you think is adjustable? The 2 inch metal band over the nose with the 1/8" foam under it? I get it that they call it a respirator now. They didn't used to be, they were called what they are, dust masks.
Tell someone in a construction setting that they are being fit tested for a n95 they will run your ass off the job site.

 

[Jerry-B-WI]

It's literally paper on skin....there is no seal to get.
Look at it, what exactly do you think is adjustable? The 2 inch metal band over the nose with the 1/8" foam under it? I get it that they call it a respirator now. They didn't used to be, they were called what they are, dust masks.
Tell someone in a construction setting that they are being fit tested for a n95 they will run your ass off the job site.

Well, Honeywell says their N95's are made from a non woven polypropylene electrostatic material not paper.

 

[omicron1792]

It's literally paper on skin....there is no seal to get.
Look at it, what exactly do you think is adjustable? The 2 inch metal band over the nose with the 1/8" foam under it? I get it that they call it a respirator now. They didn't used to be, they were called what they are, dust masks.
Tell someone in a construction setting that they are being fit tested for a n95 they will run your ass off the job site.

Bill. We aren’t talking about a construction site. We are talking about healthcare workers for mitigation of viral exposure.

If you came to the floor wearing a n95 in a hospital NOT fit tested, they will run your ass off the job site.

 

[Bill Loser]

Bill. We aren’t talking about a construction site. We are talking about healthcare workers for mitigation of viral exposure.

If you came to the floor wearing a n95 in a hospital NOT fit tested, they will run your ass off the job site.

I can't help that. If they don't know any better that's on them.

 

[Troubles Trees]

I never rely on news publications for information but for those that do, and doubt the study I originally posted, should read this.

Opinion | The Mask Mandates Did Nothing. Will Any Lessons Be Learned?

“Do something” is not science, and it shouldn’t have been public policy.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Angus 1895]

I can’t be bothered to read this whole thread.

I don’t think the mask mandate helped the deal in a statistically measurable amount.

R there studies/articles that claim they did?



If so what where are they?

Thanks

John