Making dirt

[buckdeer1]

I didn't know what else to call the thread but has anyone taken really bad soil and improved it to be able to plan a food plot?Alot of my soil is real light but I am wanting a small plot in an area that we won't even farm,its so sandy.I am thinking about starting small on it maybe 30ft wide by 200 ft long.I normally would just use my ag field in this area but I think next year we will plant cotton and that doesn't make to good of deer attractant.I am planning on digging out about 2 ft deep then mixing cow manure and topsoil,then tilling and doing soil test.What we do to deer hunt?I know sounds crazy but hey Grant Woods bought deer dirt

 

[tmeaton]

I'm new to most of what is being discussed... but FWIW Gary Casper has an interesting fb group called deer dirt first... u might look at what they discuss. A lot of discussion about enhancing soil with microorganisms etc...

Also ray archuleta and Dave Brandt have some videos/ discussion on soil improvements

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[mglenn005]

Don’t disc. Keep something growing at all times. Don’t disc. Don’t disc. Don’t disc. Keep something growing. Add chicken / cow manure. Don’t disc. Generate biomass. There isn’t a short term solution.


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[scott44]

Try throw and mow/roll.

 

[yoderjac]

I didn't know what else to call the thread but has anyone taken really bad soil and improved it to be able to plan a food plot?Alot of my soil is real light but I am wanting a small plot in an area that we won't even farm,its so sandy.I am thinking about starting small on it maybe 30ft wide by 200 ft long.I normally would just use my ag field in this area but I think next year we will plant cotton and that doesn't make to good of deer attractant.I am planning on digging out about 2 ft deep then mixing cow manure and topsoil,then tilling and doing soil test.What we do to deer hunt?I know sounds crazy but hey Grant Woods bought deer dirt

if you are talking about a limited area like a food plot sure. Most soil can produce but it can take time. Most of my experience is on the other end. I've converted a lot of heavy clay logging decks that were highly compressed with no top soil and would not even grow weeds and turned them into great food plots. It is a lot of work and take time.

The techniques for sandy soil are just the opposite so I won't talk about logging decks. My first rule for sandy soil would be don't till at all if possible. Use throw and grow. Apply all amendments to the surface only. Don't try to till in lime or fertilizer. Start with soil building crops that can produce with poor pH and infertility like buckwheat and winter rye. Don't let the soil go bare. Always have something growing. Over time, you can build OM top down this way but it does take years. These plots can still feed deer. Soil test sandy soil more often than heavier soils since lime and nutrients move through sandy soil much faster. Some folks have soil so sandy that they have to apply lime each time they plant. Once the soil can support it, I'd include GHR in my fall mix. It will provide organic tillage without disturbing the microbiology or tilth of the soil. It will extract nutrients from deeper and bring them to the surface. It will also build OM deeper than many other crops.

Regardless of your soil type, building OM is trying to get the right mix of legumes and grasses. The legumes provide the N and the grasses provide the carbon. You are essentially composting. Both the dead vegetation above the soil and dead roots decompose to build OM. While it takes a long time to build OM, these crops are great crops for feeding deer. When the soil will support it, annual or short lived clovers can provide the N if you want to plant in the fall for attraction. If not, once the soil supports it, a perennial clover field can do wonders. Try to get a clean start by broadcasting it with a WR cover crop in the fall and mow as needed the first spring. After that initial start, don't sweat the weeds too much. As grasses infiltrate the clover over time, they will be providing the carbon.

Best of luck,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

I'm new to most of what is being discussed... but FWIW Gary Casper has an interesting fb group called deer dirt first... u might look at what they discuss. A lot of discussion about enhancing soil with microorganisms etc...

Also ray archuleta and Dave Brandt have some videos/ discussion on soil improvements

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It is much better not to destroy the microbiology of your existing soils than to try to fix it. Ray the Soil Guy (Archuleta) isn't trying to sell product. He is an NRCS guy whose focus is on soil health. His videos are a great resource.

 

[buckdeer1]

I will check them out,i would think that NWSG would create some biomass but it hasnt doesn't even really grow good NWSG,its just in that perfect spot

 

[Catscratch]

I will check them out,i would think that NWSG would create some biomass but it hasnt doesn't even really grow good NWSG,its just in that perfect spot

I kind of think you need to let early successional plants take over for a while even if that means letting undesirables take over. Anything that will grow and put roots into the ground and thatch on top is a good thing for what you want. Eventually you might be able to plant something like sudan grass or pearl millet there to speed things up.

 

[Barndog56]

As to your thread title, dirt is what you have now, what you want to make is soil. You need to add organic matter, and a good balance of soil biology. Adding manure is a good first step, adding compost would be even better. And there's no need to till it in, just adding it on top will be fine. If you ever absolutely can't stop yourself from tilling, do it as shallowly as possible.

Throw and mow, or drill if possible, plants that will grow substantial root systems. That will add the organic matter right where it's needed, underground. Red clover, winter rye, sorghum sudan grass will all work wonders. And I would not worry one bit about any broadleaf 'weeds' that come up with it. Diversity is very beneficial to soil building, let the soil grow what it wants rather than fight it.

Do not apply any fertilizers, pesticides, or lime. All of those things are damaging to soil biology, and do nothing to improve your soil. And when you've added some organic matter, and have happy biology in your soil, none of those things are needed.

The youtube videos recommended above are good ones, I would add Gabe Brown, Dr. Elaine Ingham, and Christine Jones to the list.

 

[Barndog56]

And this will sound way out there, but if you've got little growing there at this point, the soil life you do have is pretty scarce and isn't fed will. Broadcast up to 5 pounds of sugar per acre, then let a rain wash it in before adding your manure or compost. The bacteria and fungi will love it, multiply like crazy, and be better prepared to work over your manure or compost.

 

[yoderjac]

As to your thread title, dirt is what you have now, what you want to make is soil. You need to add organic matter, and a good balance of soil biology. Adding manure is a good first step, adding compost would be even better. And there's no need to till it in, just adding it on top will be fine. If you ever absolutely can't stop yourself from tilling, do it as shallowly as possible.

Throw and mow, or drill if possible, plants that will grow substantial root systems. That will add the organic matter right where it's needed, underground. Red clover, winter rye, sorghum sudan grass will all work wonders. And I would not worry one bit about any broadleaf 'weeds' that come up with it. Diversity is very beneficial to soil building, let the soil grow what it wants rather than fight it.

Do not apply any fertilizers, pesticides, or lime. All of those things are damaging to soil biology, and do nothing to improve your soil. And when you've added some organic matter, and have happy biology in your soil, none of those things are needed.

The youtube videos recommended above are good ones, I would add Gabe Brown, Dr. Elaine Ingham, and Christine Jones to the list.

I'm right with you in concept, if your only focus is building soil. Like most things, I think it comes down to competing objectives and balance. If one doesn't care about soil health at all and the only objective is a short-term food plot, traditional high input farming with tillage will achieve that. If your only goal is soil health, you've provided some great advise. Most folk goals fall somewhere in between.

If ones goal is deer management, we have some short term needs of providing sufficient quality food for nutrition but longer term needs of making quality food sustainable. It takes many years to build OM in poor soils. I think lime and fertilizer are very good bridge tools. They can allow you to grow quality foods in very short order after you start the long-term process of building OM. The can accelerate it by increasing the volume of vegetation. If top-dressed only, I see the benefits outweighing the risks. Having said that, my goal is to reduce these input each year as my OM improves.

Your points on diversity are spot on. Weed tolerance and understanding plants that are weeds for farmers are not necessarily weeds for deer management are important.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

I have a sandy plot that I've tried to improve for about 5 years. In the beginning it was just old pasture grass that was very thin because the soil was so sandy. Around my area deer don't care for that at all, so my goal was to eventually improve the soil enough to grow soybeans. The first year I immediately did a soil test and planted buckwheat first to build the soil then lightly disked it in and planted a brassica blend in late summer. The buckwheat did fine on the sandy ground, but the brassicas did not.

Then I added lime and fertilizer as recommended by my soil test and things started to improve. My land is in MN and it has a relatively short growing season, but I typically double crop this ground to build up organic matter. I plant oats as soon as the snow melts, then lightly disk up and plant soybeans in late May. This seems to improve things, but it is slow. My organic matter % started around 1.2% and now it is 1.6% - but that small change does make a difference. I'm always trying to balance building the soil with planting stuff the deer like. The soil building plants like buckwheat, rye, oats, etc., are generally not preferred by my deer during deer season. I want to kill deer and I've found soybeans are the best way to get that done.

I'm getting a little impatient with my slow soil building plan and a month ago I had 30,000 pounds of compost delivered to add to this 1/2 acre plot. I will spread and lightly disk this in next spring when I plant oats and hopefully it will help the plants grow faster and larger which will in turn accelerate my increase in organic matter.

 

[buckdeer1]

what type of compost

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

Our county has a leaf and grass drop off site that they use to turn into compost that they sell the following year. It ended up being about $150 per dump truck load plus delivery.

 

[yoderjac]

Our county has a leaf and grass drop off site that they use to turn into compost that they sell the following year. It ended up being about $150 per dump truck load plus delivery.

Hope the do a good job of composting. If not, you can end up introducing all kinds of noxious weeds.

 

[Catscratch]

Buckdeer1 I'm anxious for you to do this project. In bad soils I'm a "get anything to grow" guy to introduce organic matter through the roots. Incorporating 2ft of compost into the sand is a huge task and I'm not sure I've seen documentation of someone doing that. Good luck with it and keep us posted on the project.

 

[swat1018]

Sounds similar to the "Deep mulch gardening" that is becoming popular.

 

[yoderjac]

Sounds similar to the "Deep mulch gardening" that is becoming popular.

I think the difference is volume. In a garden, you can use an extremely high amount of mulch (OM). When you till it into a food plot, you are destroying the soil tilth and introducing oxygen into the soil. The oxygen vastly speeds up action of the aerobic microorganisms and you can actually burn more OM than you are adding. If you have a very high volume of compost to incorporate and do it only once, you may have a net gain.

Personally, I think it is better to build OM from the top down applying it in lesser amounts more frequently. You can introduce manure or compost if you have the time, money, and inclination, but I would top dress it without incorporation. I prefer to grow the OM. This attracts and feeds deer while you are building OM. By using a good choice of crops, you can incorporate the OM without introducing oxygen or disturbing the soil tilth. Plant roots like WR add OM below the surface while the top growth adds OM to the top when it dies. Crops like GHR can add even more OM at deeper levels. Mixing these with clover can help introduce N into the soil. Buckwheat is known as green manure because it scavenges nutrients and decays so quickly releasing them and building OM.

Each year, my crops get better with this approach and I'm using less and less fertilizer.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Catscratch]

Jack, you are recommending he make a 2ft tall mound the length of his plot instead of putting it level with the surface (2ft down)?

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[mglenn005]

I’ve never used one, but you should look into a manure spreader. I bet it would work good with compost. At the volume discussed above, it would be a good investment.


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