Natty Bumppo
5 year old buck +
I don't care who uses what. To each his own. But I really can't stand the narrative you hear that crossbows offer no advantage over longbows or compounds bows. Please.
I certainly haven't seen that narrative in this thread. I'm not ever sure I've seen that line from the crossbow manufacturers trying to get them accepted in a state.I don't care who uses what. To each his own. But I really can't stand the narrative you hear that crossbows offer no advantage over longbows or compounds bows. Please.
I certainly haven't seen that narrative in this thread. I'm not ever sure I've seen that line from the crossbow manufacturers trying to get them accepted in a state.
Thanks,
Jack
I'm with you that inclusion is based on money, but not as much from tag sales. We had inclusion in 2013 (I think) and it was pushed through by a certain legislator who at the time was seen eating lunches with a big name crossbow manufacture rep, and with an auto insurer. Surveys, meetings, and social media all indicated that the population didn't want inclusion but deep pockets win out every time. I think there is a lot bigger money to be made than from tag sales. It's a shame to watch how politics work for those with money and against those who vote.Indiana went thru this just a few years ago. My personal opinion is that these moves are about one thing at the core and it has NOTHING to do with a true NEED.
#1 - x-bows are included to expand the sale of archery license sales and put more money into the DNR = $$$.
#2 - x-bows are included because political pressure to reduce deer numbers = $$$$
#3 - x-bows are included to drive retail sales = $$$
I think your post says as much about the current state of high tech archery as it does about crossbows.I'm with you that inclusion is based on money, but not as much from tag sales. We had inclusion in 2013 (I think) and it was pushed through by a certain legislator who at the time was seen eating lunches with a big name crossbow manufacture rep, and with an auto insurer. Surveys, meetings, and social media all indicated that the population didn't want inclusion but deep pockets win out every time. I think there is a lot bigger money to be made than from tag sales. It's a shame to watch how politics work for those with money and against those who vote.
I've been on both sides of the crossbow argument and have to admit I've made mistakes along the way. My first fight was 100% against and I was vocal to lawmakers about it. Turns out I had never hunted with one and didn't know what I was talking about. My views were based solely on preconceived prejudices.
Second fight was after I got one and shot a couple of deer with it I realized something; it gave me no significant advantage over my compound. Completely lateral move so I figure they are no big deal. No extension of effective range, no effective addition to knockdown power, no less movement to acquire the target, no need to practice more or less, no advantage whatsoever... in my hands. But here is what I was leaving out in my mind; after 30 yrs of compound hunting I have become proficient at shooting deer with a compound. Drawing a on a deer and shooting a compound is easy. I can literally pick up my compound after letting it sit for several months and drill the bulls-eye at 30yds with the first 3 shots. I never get picked off during the draw cycle. But, I have 30yrs of practice at this and that should be taken into account. Just because deer never pick me off and just because compounds are easy for me to shoot doesn't mean that everyone has the same experience. For many, a compound presents significant challenges that a crossbow doesn't. I'm in no position to argue someone else's ability to shoot or hunt hunt at close range. And I'm certainly in no position to argue their ability against mine.
Didn't quite understand any of those points.Why do you stop your "skill" argument with a modern compound bow? I have shot way more deer with my compound bow than I have with my recurve crossbow or my compound crossbow for that matter. I get just as close, just as quiet and do just as much scouting as I did when I was compound bow hunting exclusively. If you want to talk skill go kill one with your bare hands. I can get a damage permit to shoot deer with whatever weapon I want on at any time I want on my property. I can also assure you that you won't be hunting 'legally' on my land. You worry about your "skill" and I'll worry about how I choose to put meat in my freezer.
Didn't quite understand any of those points.
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That was pretty much what I was saying.I think he is trying to make the point that in some states, bowhunting seasons were established before the advent of compound bows. The argument that the intent was to require dedication and skill level can be seen to be violated when compounds were added just as you are arguing that they are violated when crossbows are added.
Thanks,
jack
I started off deer hunting back in the early 80's with a recurve bow, then in the early 90's jumped into the compound bows. In my opinion, the introduction of the compound bow is leaps and bounds more of an advantage then the introduction of the crossbow. But in that, I have never hunted with a crossbow, nor do I have the want to. I have had 5 shoulder surgeries on my shoulders, and the Dr told me that he would give me a note to legally shoot with a crossbow (prior to the state opening up the crossbow season), I had no interest. I felt if I am capable to pull the bow back, and hold it, I can still use my compound bow. I worked really hard to get muscles strengthened to use my compound bow, and had to change form a bit, but I am just as accurate, and silent now, as I was before. I cant shoot league anymore, I can only shoot about 20 times, and my shoulders hurt, but I am ok with that.
As for the crossbow, if it offers someone a chance to legally take a deer in season, I am ok with it. Most sportsman a crossbow wouldnt change the outcome of their hunt anyhow. They arent going to take shots with a crossbow, that they werent going to with a compound bow. Sure the crossbow will allow a few more hunters, that either werent capable of pulling back a compound bow, or that didnt have the skill of accuracy with a compound bow, to get in the woods, but for that, I think is more of a selling point, then a negative for them. I dont wont someone inaccurate flinging arrows at deer, and if we can get a few more kids involved, woman, seniors, and handicapped folks, I am all for it. That pretty much just leaves the few that are impulse hunters, that want to try something new, but that will end in a few years.
I think crossbows serve as an excellent tool in the hunting toolbox, but for me, I will stick with my compound bow as long as I am capable to pull it back.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I just get so tired of some who make the point that crossbows don't require the same level of 'skill' or commitment that a compound bow does. As one who hunts with both I can assure you there is no argument as far as that is concerned. Where I have the problem is that like it or not crossbows are archery tackle that use fletches, broadheads and arrows. They are not firearms. Whether they require as much skill as a compound(or stick or recurve) is irrelevant. I originally got mine to hunt late season when getting by with movement is much more challenging. Do I have to move as much as I would drawing a compound-no. Do I have to move-yes. Do I need the animal within 40 yards-yes. I don't shoot any more deer in a year using my crossbow than I did when I used a compound only. It's called hunting and not killing for a reason. I personally hunt very little with my firearms anymore as it is just too easy and I like the lack of blood in the meat of an animal that has been shot with a razor sharp broadhead and allowed to bleed out as opposed to killing with the hydrostatic shock of a high velocity bullet. I save those for the coyotes.Didn't quite understand any of those points.
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Sorry for the misunderstanding. I just get so tired of some who make the point that crossbows don't require the same level of 'skill' or commitment that a compound bow does. As one who hunts with both I can assure you there is no argument as far as that is concerned. Where I have the problem is that like it or not crossbows are archery tackle that use fletches, broadheads and arrows. They are not firearms. Whether they require as much skill as a compound(or stick or recurve) is irrelevant. I originally got mine to hunt late season when getting by with movement is much more challenging. Do I have to move as much as I would drawing a compound-no. Do I have to move-yes. Do I need the animal within 40 yards-yes. I don't shoot any more deer in a year using my crossbow than I did when I used a compound only. It's called hunting and not killing for a reason. I personally hunt very little with my firearms anymore as it is just too easy and I like the lack of blood in the meat of an animal that has been shot with a razor sharp broadhead and allowed to bleed out as opposed to killing with the hydrostatic shock of a high velocity bullet. I save those for the coyotes.
All that said, for the past year I have spent more of my time fooling with foodplots and trying to learn as much about them as I can-that's why I am here. To learn from those who have more experience than I may ever have.
I think crossbows open up hunting to more people and for a longer period of time (basing the last part on Indiana's long bow season). I got one at the end of last year and did not see any deer when I was out. This spring/summer I let a lot of people shoot it, from my 9 year old daughter to 70 year old father in law and lots in between. By in large most people were shooting within 1" of the bullseye at 30 yards after 2 practice shots. This is with a Crosman 370 sniper which is really affordable at about $270.
Pretty fun. Pretty easy to use. Pretty accurate. No kick. No noise.
One word ... fatigue ... a crossbow is a much easier weapon to master because of this factor.
You hold your compound out at full draw and I will put a compound on a rest (tripod, deer blind window, etc.) ... let's see who can hold their weapon in a firing position longer ... this eliminates all sorts of issues that require skill and training for a vertical bow that a crossbow does not require.
If you can shoot a BB gun, you already have the "skill" required to effectively shoot a crossbow.