And so this same discussion comes full circle.....after 15 years of herd reduction. SS/DD No results. Sad. Note the dates below.............
BOWFANATIC09-12-2002 07:47 PM
RE: Gary Alt (A Man With the "Right" Plan)
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Is this scenario that far down the road? Imagine a man and his son or daughter its the first day of deer season and they are watching a doe walking towards them the child asks dad can I shoot this one and the dad replies no I am sorry you cant we couldnt get a doe tag and she isnt legal. a little bit later here comes a four point again the child ask the same question and gets this answer no since they passed AR for everyone you cant. Now I know that it isnt passed for everyone yet but I have read that people want it to be. Now what do you think that child is going to think after seeing a couple deer and not able to shoot? Too many times like this in the woods and I will bet that the kid will quit and we have one last hunter in our ranks. With AR and herd reduction hand in hand this might not be to far down the road.
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You bet your arse it isn't far down the road. Someone else mentioned , he understood that more does need to be killed to
maintain the same herd level<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>
Do you think Gary Alt is doing this to maintain the same herd level? It couldn't be further from the truth! Like I said before his main agenda (along with many other states , including Wi) is to drastically reduce the
herd level. They weren't getting the doe harvest they wanted to reduce the herd numbers , so walla! How can we push hunters to harvest more does? By forcing them to let younger bucks walk. His plan or agenda had nothing to do with creating monster bucks , he just sold it that way and alot of hunters are foolish enough to buy it.
I'd be willing to bet that next year Pa will have a record buck harvest , and the following year hunters will be forced to shoot a doe (maybe two) before harvesting a buck.
Rob/PA Bowyer09-12-2002 09:42 PM
RE: Gary Alt (A Man With the "Right" Plan)
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
You bet your arse it isn't far down the road. Someone else mentioned , he understood that more does need to be killed to
maintain the same herd level<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>
Do you think Gary Alt is doing this to maintain the same herd level? It couldn't be further from the truth! Like I said before his main agenda (along with many other states , including Wi) is to drastically reduce the
herd level. They weren't getting the doe harvest they wanted to reduce the herd numbers , so walla! How can we push hunters to harvest more does? By forcing them to let younger bucks walk. His plan or agenda had nothing to do with creating monster bucks , he just sold it that way and alot of hunters are foolish enough to buy it.
I'd be willing to bet that next year Pa will have a record buck harvest , and the following year hunters will be forced to shoot a doe (maybe two) before harvesting a buck.
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I'm not sure how to read that quote, are you for or against?
IMHO, what's wrong with that? We are only now starting to do things that many top quality deer management private areas like Willow Point are doing and they have the best of all worlds. A healthy deer population, adequate buck to doe ratios, large bodied, healthy, heavy antlered bucks, good fawn production...etc
What PA is now finally starting to do is what all these areas have been doing for a long time. Gary Alt isn't pulling this stuff from a hat, it's been implemented and working many places.
(not necessarily directed at Bowfanactic)
<font color=blue>Good Luck and Good Shooting</font id=blue>
<font color=red>
Rob</font id=red>
BOWFANATIC09-12-2002 11:00 PM
RE: Gary Alt (A Man With the "Right" Plan)
Rob
Right now I'm on the fence , leaning towards being against it<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
It just seems to me , that Gary Alt knew darn well how to get his plan across as being the "answer". By targeting the trophy hunters (for lack of a better word) , or the QDM hunters (nothing wrong with QDM) , knowing full well that the above groups of people would be salivating at the thought of trophy bucks.
I , as a hunter , love having a huge deer herd. Are their more does than bucks? Yes! Would a closer buck to doe ratio make a better herd? Yes! But , as I said before , I dont believe for one second that his agenda is aimed at a quality herd. I truly believe his agenda is 100% aimed at reducing the herd dramatically by targeting does. He knows full well that by having a antler restriction , many many many more does will be harvested this year.
As far as the QDM topic , like willow creek , or our buffalo county , I cant argue with that. It has proven results , but in much smaller areas than the state of Pa or Wi. These areas dont go after the doe slaughter to reduce the herds. They keep a balanced harvest and they weed out the inferior bucks.
In Wi , at least they (DNR) have been honest about their intentions. They have told us all along that they need to reduce the size of our deer herd. Alot of hunters would say , why? we love having over a million deer , but when you get into the politics side of it , like the $$$$ that it costs our states by having an over population of deer , then you'll understand how their agenda and ours (hunters) are miles apart.
Lets say for example , (because I dont know Pa harvest or population numbers) that you have a deer herd of 1.6 million. Lets say your normal season harvest numbers are 600,000 deer with a 60% doe harvest each year. Lets say this year , out of 600,000 deer harvested , 90% are does. Lets say you have the harshest winter in many years and you have a 10% - 20% winter kill. You've already lost a great portion of the breeders. Now next year , I'm betting the buck harvest will be a record harvest. But , this is where you'll find out what Mr. Alts true intentions were , the next year , since mostly bucks were shot the year previous , it will be earn a buck. There will still be quality bucks around , but now everyone will have to shoot a doe or two before shooting a buck. In a few years it will be interesting to see if the size of Pa's deer herd is drastically smaller than it has been in the last 20 years or so.
"Nocked,cocked & ready to rock"