Cuddeback's Cuddelink

[chickenlittle]

The problem for your customer won't be someone stealing the photo. It will be figuring out where each cam is located and stealing them. But that isn't your problem. I'm sure your design team thought about this and decided it was easier and cheaper to make it unsecured. Besides, you'll be happy to sell them more unsecured cams to put out to replace any that walk off.

 

[yoderjac]

The problem for your customer won't be someone stealing the photo. It will be figuring out where each cam is located and stealing them. But that isn't your problem. I'm sure your design team thought about this and decided it was easier and cheaper to make it unsecured. Besides, you'll be happy to sell them more unsecured cams to put out to replace any that walk off.

To be fair, making them reasonably secure is pretty expensive. It requires a method that prevents the reset of a password without fairly expensive equipment. It makes it impractical to reuse the camera in another system. However, making them minimally secure isn't very expensive. Even most of the low end cameras have a user password (although it is pretty easy to defeat for folks with technical knowledge). Including a short key generated from that in the high level protocol and having cameras ignore packets without that key is not expensive if done in the initial design.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[john volkman]

The problem for your customer won't be someone stealing the photo. It will be figuring out where each cam is located and stealing them. But that isn't your problem. I'm sure your design team thought about this and decided it was easier and cheaper to make it unsecured. Besides, you'll be happy to sell them more unsecured cams to put out to replace any that walk off.

i think you are overestimating the ability of the RF signal to assist a thief to "find" your cameras it would actually be faster an easier to look for them visually while trespassing. Also, there is and will be more ways to secure the cameras that will make them very difficult to steal if this is a concern. Camera theft has always been a topic of discussion since scouting cameras became popular years ago. Obviously theft happens now and then regardless but the degree in which it happens is much lower than what many think. Every area and every situation is different but there are ways to deter theft if that is a big concern in anyones particular situation.
I actually think Scouting cameras have helped deter trespassing to a degree since they became so popular.
It would be interesting to know what percentage of users on the forum have had cameras stolen on their property and how many - might be a good idea for a poll? it would be useful info!
After working in the industry and in retail since cameras first came out, I find that the percentage of people who buy security/bear boxes or anti theft devices such as cables, python locks is a very low percentage of over all camera sales. Back when the average price of cameras exceeded $400 it was much more of a concern. I can tell you the majority of camera safes sold in wi is primarily to prevent bear damage.

 

[Peplin Creek]

I feel like ya’ll are giving thieves way to much credit. If your living in an area where theft is a possibility, It’s not going to matter what kind of cameras you have out. They’ll take them anyway. I get everyone’s point and if people are going to pass on this setup strictly because of that, then fine that’s their choice. Most of us don’t have the kind of cash to buy the BEC which is truely the only thing that compares to this. I fully plan to continue to utilize this system because I already saw what kind of benefits one can get from it. The main thing is far less intrusion checking cameras which allowed me to leave some of the best cover my property has to offer undisturbed for all of the hunting season. It’s a system that’s going to allow people opportunities at deer they might have otherwise bumped. IMHO this system is something that the everyday hunter can utilize to help stack the odds in their favor and it’s price point is the best in the market, making it affordable.

 

[Bill]

Secure or not I think this system has value "to me". I've never lost a camera to theft but still lock them all. That would be a good poll to run. And I do believe trail cams have reduced trespassing over the years. When the CB home unit comes out, I will test it and if its successful, it will replace every BEC where the cuddeback's can transmit to the base. This will let me put the more expensive BEC's in locations further from the base where I'd like them now but don't want to pay for more.

Not really worried about the neighbors running a system and getting my pics. I don't have cams near the lines anyway so it's not like they could move a stand based on my Intel. And yes the neighbors see some of the same deer as I do but we all have a mutual understanding that we just lie our A$$ off and say "No, I haven't gotten any good ones on film" :)

I agree most thieves are not going to target cameras by running one looking for signals. To much thought in that for most crackheads. Heck I take the lug nuts off my tractor tires and leave it on Jack stands because a crackhead isn't going to buy lug nuts just to steal my tractor.

 

[chickenlittle]

In my area, spotlighting for deer is a common past time. Now, many of these folks are fine citizens just out having fun looking at deer. But some are deciding which deer to poach or which barn they can steal from. If it is as simple as driving around with the base station on, they don't even have to be tech savvy. Change channel each night you go out and you'll find it if it can broadcast to the nearest road. Then they can decide if it is a good target worth the effort to find and steal.

 

[yoderjac]

I feel like ya’ll are giving thieves way to much credit. If your living in an area where theft is a possibility, It’s not going to matter what kind of cameras you have out. They’ll take them anyway. I get everyone’s point and if people are going to pass on this setup strictly because of that, then fine that’s their choice. Most of us don’t have the kind of cash to buy the BEC which is truely the only thing that compares to this. I fully plan to continue to utilize this system because I already saw what kind of benefits one can get from it. The main thing is far less intrusion checking cameras which allowed me to leave some of the best cover my property has to offer undisturbed for all of the hunting season. It’s a system that’s going to allow people opportunities at deer they might have otherwise bumped. IMHO this system is something that the everyday hunter can utilize to help stack the odds in their favor and it’s price point is the best in the market, making it affordable.

The cost is a BIG advantage where theft is a concern. For the first few years when trespass, poaching, theft, and vandalism were big issues for us, I had to spend quite a bit on camera security. Before the BEC system when I was using the low end Chinese cameras, I used no theft protection. I considered them disposable. The QC was so poor that over 50% of the time you had to mess with a warranty replacement and you were lucky to get a year or two out of them before the failed. While I had a few of them stolen, the thieves didn't get much. My guess is that if they kept them, they only got a few months before they failed for them.

With low cost cameras you risk much less. In those early days of my Orion system, I spent quite a lot on reinforced cement pillars, with extra heavy motorcycle chains, and heavy duty protection boxes. The protection for my early Orions cost more then many of the low end cameras I had been using. The long-term solution was not protection, it was vigilance, consistent reporting, and prosecution. Now trespass is virtually non-existent. Our area has plenty of criminals as chickenlittle describes, they have simply moved on to softer targets.

I don't think we are discussing whether the Cuddeback system has value. It clearly does. What we are all trying to understand is exactly what the limitations, risks, and drawback are. It is easy to find the benefits, Cuddeback will advertise those in large bold print or shout them from the rooftops. What is harder to find are the shortcomings and anomalies. Remember back when camera manufacturers advertised the actual resolution of the image sensor and then many began to hide that and advertise an extrapolated resolution? The idea is to cut through the marketing crap, and understand performance.

The important thing here is that Red asked some good questions and the answers exposed some risks. How important those risks are to any particular application are something that each user can decide.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Red Picqua]

Secure or not I think this system has value "to me". I've never lost a camera to theft but still lock them all. That would be a good poll to run. And I do believe trail cams have reduced trespassing over the years. When the CB home unit comes out, I will test it and if its successful, it will replace every BEC where the cuddeback's can transmit to the base. This will let me put the more expensive BEC's in locations further from the base where I'd like them now but don't want to pay for more.

Not really worried about the neighbors running a system and getting my pics. I don't have cams near the lines anyway so it's not like they could move a stand based on my Intel. And yes the neighbors see some of the same deer as I do but we all have a mutual understanding that we just lie our A$$ off and say "No, I haven't gotten any good ones on film" :)

I agree most thieves are not going to target cameras by running one looking for signals. To much thought in that for most crackheads. Heck I take the lug nuts off my tractor tires and leave it on Jack stands because a crackhead isn't going to buy lug nuts just to steal my tractor.

good post Bill. I am in the camp of all in on this system. I guess I will address the when and if as they occur. But, for right now I am in belief that this is a game changer in that price point category of the trail camera market. Most of the conversations I have with the neighbors happen if I have seen any good ones, then we laugh and show a couple of pics on the phones and we both leave the conversation in good partnership and friendship and laughing. I disagree with some of the posts that if there was a world class deer running around that you would do anything to garner as much intelligence as you could on that deer and my neighbors might set a stand differently, as I can tell you I would. BUT, i do feel that this system would do more in the way of keeping areas secure and free of contact than anything! So.. it's win no matter what.

never had a camera stolen, I don't know of one person that had a camera stolen, everyone I know runs "bear boxes" on their cameras. I don't even lock them!!

So in a nutshell. Cuddeback has a winner. SOLD.

 

[yoderjac]

good post Bill. I am in the camp of all in on this system. I guess I will address the when and if as they occur. But, for right now I am in belief that this is a game changer in that price point category of the trail camera market. Most of the conversations I have with the neighbors happen if I have seen any good ones, then we laugh and show a couple of pics on the phones and we both leave the conversation in good partnership and friendship and laughing. I disagree with some of the posts that if there was a world class deer running around that you would do anything to garner as much intelligence as you could on that deer and my neighbors might set a stand differently, as I can tell you I would. BUT, i do feel that this system would do more in the way of keeping areas secure and free of contact than anything! So.. it's win no matter what.

never had a camera stolen, I don't know of one person that had a camera stolen, everyone I know runs "bear boxes" on their cameras. I don't even lock them!!

So in a nutshell. Cuddeback has a winner. SOLD.

The problem with picking winners this early is the history of trail camera systems. I can remember folks touting a particular new camera. They were all excited about the picture quality, resolution and long battery life. One guy decided to hang one along side an older but time proven Reconyx. The new camera got about 20% of the pictures of the Reconyx. This is an example of the unknown unknowns. Other things really take time to assess. Reliability and life-span are examples. We won't really have a handle on this for several years down the road.

I'd say the system show potential for some applications and that is all we can say with confidence at this point. There are clearly show-stoppers in the design for some applications and the jury is still out for others. I'm anxious to see continued review and evaluation by the early adopters on this forum. I'm especially interested in the anomalous conditions like those you identified. The addition of the home base will add a whole new dimension to consider.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Red Picqua]

The problem with picking winners this early is the history of trail camera systems. I can remember folks touting a particular new camera. They were all excited about the picture quality, resolution and long battery life. One guy decided to hang one along side an older but time proven Reconyx. The new camera got about 20% of the pictures of the Reconyx. This is an example of the unknown unknowns. Other things really take time to assess. Reliability and life-span are examples. We won't really have a handle on this for several years down the road.

I'd say the system show potential for some applications and that is all we can say with confidence at this point. There are clearly show-stoppers in the design for some applications and the jury is still out for others. I'm anxious to see continued review and evaluation by the early adopters on this forum. I'm especially interested in the anomalous conditions like those you identified. The addition of the home base will add a whole new dimension to consider.

Thanks,

Jack

Reconyx and BEC are great cameras. But that comes at a price. To even mention BEC cams and the CL system is really not fair. Most people I know won't spend 1000 bucks on ONE camera. Yes they are worth the price long term, but I can also tell you that I have a couple of stealth cameras going on 3 years now and they were 60 bucks a piece and they were low glow flash. Still going strong!! They break, I buy some more. I have a couple of black flash bushnells and they are 4 years and still going strong. I have a couple of Reconyx and they are 6 years?? I have probably way too many cameras for most.

I am a firm believer in a tried and trusted brand like Cuddeback, Reconyx, BEC, etc. I really feel that Cuddeback will not ship a junk product and I am confident that if they did they will stand behind it 100%. My only concern was addressed by Volkman and I think he fielded it well. I believe he said he works for Cuddeback or something like that or a rep?? I really feel this camera system is a game changer for those of us in the camp of low intrusion properties, high concealment, and keeping human scent out of areas I don't ever want to set foot on until I am armed ready to put an arrow in the chest of a deer. I like it!

I do have another product question but I am going to review this again to make sure it was not asked before...

 

[Red Picqua]

just to confirm. YES i know these are astronomical pic numbers!! :)

5 cams set up.
1 home unit.
5 cams all with 16 gig card
1 home unit 32 gig card.

5 cams transmit to home unit for two months.
1 home unit is full of 32 gig of pics.
5 cams are full at 16 gigs each.

1. Because the home camera is full. the images are saved on the internal SD card. you just pull the card and swap with a new one? My guess you will need to replace batteries anyways.
2. If you put in a new card in the home unit will the 5 cams just start to transmit the other images that are stored that didn't send? Or are they just stuck on the card until you swap them?

Not a deal breaker but wondering if I walk out to my cams if I will be needing to be armed with new cards.

I am assuming the CL system has a function that allows for SD card formatting at each camera, right??? that would be a HUGE deal breaker for me!

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I also have a question. With the home unit, can it be placed indoors? Is there an option to plug the home unit into an ac outlet, so it wont consume so many batteries? My thinking is, I would place "X" amount of cameras on my hunting land, link them to the home unit, and the home unit can text, or send the pictures to my phone? And if I am getting this straight, I can link the home unit directly to a computer, then there would be a program available that the computer could send the pictures to my phone? Either case, is there a power cord that the home unit can plug into? Also will I be able to get signal through a wall, into my house, if I had the home unit indoors, next to a window?

 

[yoderjac]

Reconyx and BEC are great cameras. But that comes at a price. To even mention BEC cams and the CL system is really not fair. Most people I know won't spend 1000 bucks on ONE camera. Yes they are worth the price long term, but I can also tell you that I have a couple of stealth cameras going on 3 years now and they were 60 bucks a piece and they were low glow flash. Still going strong!! They break, I buy some more. I have a couple of black flash bushnells and they are 4 years and still going strong. I have a couple of Reconyx and they are 6 years?? I have probably way too many cameras for most.

I am a firm believer in a tried and trusted brand like Cuddeback, Reconyx, BEC, etc. I really feel that Cuddeback will not ship a junk product and I am confident that if they did they will stand behind it 100%. My only concern was addressed by Volkman and I think he fielded it well. I believe he said he works for Cuddeback or something like that or a rep?? I really feel this camera system is a game changer for those of us in the camp of low intrusion properties, high concealment, and keeping human scent out of areas I don't ever want to set foot on until I am armed ready to put an arrow in the chest of a deer. I like it!

I do have another product question but I am going to review this again to make sure it was not asked before...

Red,

You are absolutely correct that cuddeback is shooting for a different price point in the market. While the BEC systems are great, they are not a good fit for many and upfront price is an issue. This is especially true in high risk environments.

Unfortunately, I wouldn't consider Cuddeback a trusted brand. They have produced some good cameras over the years and some real bad ones as well. I think they even tried warranting a cameras for the number of pictures rather than time at one point. That strategy didn't work well and to their credit they recognized it and backtracked quickly. I'm confident they will stand by it no longer than warranty period lasts which is tree for all camera companies including BEC.

Your beliefs for the Cuddeback system reflect my hopes. I'm not convince yet, but I'm convincible and enjoying your questions and insights.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Red Picqua]

Jack.. WRONG. There are very few companies in this category that have stayed in business for as many years at Cuddeback.

I think your ever famous BEC cams have been in business since 2003 about??

I believe Cuddeback has been in business for 25 plus years. I can tell you that the majority of people I know consider them a trusted brand. Most people I know ask what is a Buckeye cam? Something on the campus of Ohio State?

Mark from Cuddeback was living high on the hog in 2003 and selling 1000's of cams a year before BEC cams were born. To say that they are not a trusted brand is a joke.

 

[yoderjac]

Jack.. WRONG. There are very few companies in this category that have stayed in business for as many years at Cuddeback.

I think your ever famous BEC cams have been in business since 2003 about??

I believe Cuddeback has been in business for 25 plus years. I can tell you that the majority of people I know consider them a trusted brand. Most people I know ask what is a Buckeye cam? Something on the campus of Ohio State?

Mark from Cuddeback was living high on the hog in 2003 and selling 1000's of cams a year before BEC cams were born. To say that they are not a trusted brand is a joke.

You are absolutely right that Cuddeback has been in the business a long time. That speaks to their business acumen not the quality of their product. As I say, they have produced some good quality products and some not so good. In general, my experience with them has been above average, but they have had many of the same issues as competitors in that price class.

To answer your question about BEC, to the best I can: Just as cuddeback is not really the company name, just the camera marketing name for Non Typical, BuckeyeCam is the marketing name for the camera line produced by Athens Technical Specialists which has been in business since 1982, not 2003. There claim to fame is test equipment and engineering. I'm not sure when they introduced their first trail cameras, but I know their was at lease one series if not two before the Orion. They are out of Athens Ohio so I presume that is where the Buckeye and Greek god references come from.

Cuddebacks, just like my Orions are built here in the US. I think Cuddeback has suffered a lot more competition from the Chinese because of the market segment they focus on. I believe Cuddebacks were new on the scene back when I was playing with the 35 mm cams. I'm not demeaning them at all when I say they are not a trusted brand. I'm not trying to say that they are not a trustworthy company. They are. I'm saying you can't assume a camera made by cuddeback is going to be a good one. That is true for BEC as well. The Orion series has proven reliability and longevity. When BEC tried to reach down in market segment with the X7D, they had significant issues during the first year of introduction and got enough pushback on the radio that they offered an update to a higher powered radio which was then sold as the X80. They have been out for a number of years now, but I'm still not ready to fully endorse the X-series as having reliability or longevity of the Orion. I'm becoming more convinced each year but I'm still not completely sold.

I think I'm simply more skeptical than you, regardless of brand.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Catscratch]

My understanding is that the home unit plugs into the computer with a usb cable which would probably probably keep it charged. Radio waves can travel through walls so it should be a problem having one in the house.

 

[Red Picqua]

yes. ATI has been in business since 82. They were making equipment to check traffic lights, last time I checked I don't believe many people hunt deer next to street lights but maybe. I would bet almost anything the majority of deer hunters when they read this forum and you running your fingers on the great things BEC does, most said What and the heck is a BEC?? I would bet anything if you put up a poll have you heard of Cuddeback it would be 100% yes. They are a very solid company with a great history in the market.

 

[yoderjac]

yes. ATI has been in business since 82. They were making equipment to check traffic lights, last time I checked I don't believe many people hunt deer next to street lights but maybe. I would bet almost anything the majority of deer hunters when they read this forum and you running your fingers on the great things BEC does, most said What and the heck is a BEC?? I would bet anything if you put up a poll have you heard of Cuddeback it would be 100% yes. They are a very solid company with a great history in the market.

No doubt everyone has heard of Cuddeback. Their marketing has been top notch. I have no idea what the soundness of the company is. I don't think anyone cares about a popularity or marketing contest. As for the products they produce, some have been good and some not so good. My focus is on specific products. By the way, if you go back and look at my posts, you will find that I praise the good things BEC and just as quickly point out their shortcomings. I have no dog in the fight with any individual company. I've used many over the years and taught a class for the state hunter ed instructors. I've used few after establishing my Orion system.

More companies in the market place competing, the better for us end users. The more we discuss the specific advantages and shortcomings of each system the better shared knowledge base we all have for making well informed purchase decisions for our individual applications.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Bill]

1. I also have a question. With the home unit, can it be placed indoors? Is there an option to plug the home unit into an ac outlet, so it wont consume so many batteries? My thinking is, I would place "X" amount of cameras on my hunting land, link them to the home unit, and the home unit can text, or send the pictures to my phone? And if I am getting this straight, I can link the home unit directly to a computer, then there would be a program available that the computer could send the pictures to my phone? Either case, is there a power cord that the home unit can plug into? Also will I be able to get signal through a wall, into my house, if I had the home unit indoors, next to a window?

   
   Not a CL expert but when I spoke with them I got same impression Catscratch describes. USB to a PC.
   Once this connection is made any other features of texting or emailing are not that important. For about $12/year you can download splashtop streamer and create a secure connection to the network from anywhere in the world if you have the Internet at camp.
   
   The problem is modems, routers, software ect. can hang and your locked out. To combat this I have a PC with bios that allows me to tell the PC to reboot after a power failure. Everything is plugged into an outlet timer that cuts power every 24 hours for 2 minutes. Everything reboots daily. This way if a modem hangs you're not locked out until you get back to camp.
   
   RF will travel through walls but everything it has to pass through lessons the signal. When I get my hands on a home unit I will figure out how to adapt a cable to a roof mounted omni directional antenna.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

Great idea! Externally mounted antenna.