Coronavirus

[Buckly]

100 questionable MRIs out of 16 million positive cases. Got to love the internet LOL.

 

[cs26k]

How many of these people had MRI's before having covid? To me it sounds like they had underlying conditions at the time they got covid and strill recovered and covid didn't cure those underlying conditions.

From what I can gather, none of them did. It would be very interesting to see a study conducted on people who have both "recovered" and already had an MRI done recently before they got sick to see if any changes were noticable. I'm guessing there are Docs looking into this right now. You're right it's very possible that some of the study participants had preexisting abnormal hearts. But 3 out of every 4? That's a majority and by definition that would mean what they consider "normal" is wrong and "normal" has already been established from decades worth of MRIs. The study also had 2 control groups to compare these 100 patients to - "Compared with healthy controls and risk factor–matched controls, patients recently recovered from COVID-19 had lower left ventricular and right ventricular ejection fraction, higher left ventricle volume and mass, and raised native T1 and T2 measures". And yes, it's possible some or maybe even all of these hearts will heal back to normal. It's also possible that some or all of them will NOT get better, or will even get worse. Like Bill said, the truth will come out in 2050.

100 questionable MRIs out of 16 million positive cases. Got to love the internet LOL.

Nothing questionable about the MRIs. To call them that is disingenous at best, and in my opinion a dangerous label to dismiss valid research. From the study - "The imaging sequences used in this study have been well validated, standardized, and locked for the use in multicenter settings" Yes the sample size is small but you have to start somewhere. And the findings from the study acknowledge that - "These findings indicate the need for ongoing investigation of the long-term cardiovascular consequences of COVID-19." People who have spent their whole lives studying hearts are saying that this a concern and it needs to looked into more. I would think that would be concerning to everyone, but apparently not.

Look I know this isn't going to change most of your minds. Everyone is set in their ways and ready to defend their position to the death lol. I just shared the study to illustrate that perhaps caution is still wise - what if it does leave even 10% of the people who get it with damaged hearts? 5%? 25%? And this is only the heart, what about the kidneys? Liver? Lungs? Brain? With so much unknown still I just don't see how we should be hoping for as many people to get this virus as quickly as possible. But I'm just some guy on the internet, just like everyone else here.

BuckSutherland, how are you and the family feeling? Your post from Sunday seemed plenty feisty so I hope that means you're doing well.

 

[roymunson]

Not saying you’re wrong. No one knows.

But Mark my words, this will be the new battle cry to keep the economy in check. Americans are figuring out the death rate isn’t what they said.

guaranteed this will be The new battle cry and all we hear about from the news going forward.

I for one haven’t forgotten that we were told if we shut down, hunkered in place for 15 days then another 30, 2.2 million people in the US would still die and if we didn’t do it, it would be total carnage.

I’ll say it again. I Don’t Believe anyone or anything. The truth will come out in 2050.

This times 1,000,000

Just move the goal line.

Millions will die. wear the mask for mankind. hospitals will be overrun. We don't have enough ventilators.

All part of the plan. Keep moving the goal line and then make it a political statement.

Masks are now generally a party line thing. And that should tell us all enough.

 

[Buckly]

From what I can gather, none of them did. It would be very interesting to see a study conducted on people who have both "recovered" and already had an MRI done recently before they got sick to see if any changes were noticable. I'm guessing there are Docs looking into this right now. You're right it's very possible that some of the study participants had preexisting abnormal hearts. But 3 out of every 4? That's a majority and by definition that would mean what they consider "normal" is wrong and "normal" has already been established from decades worth of MRIs. The study also had 2 control groups to compare these 100 patients to - "Compared with healthy controls and risk factor–matched controls, patients recently recovered from COVID-19 had lower left ventricular and right ventricular ejection fraction, higher left ventricle volume and mass, and raised native T1 and T2 measures". And yes, it's possible some or maybe even all of these hearts will heal back to normal. It's also possible that some or all of them will NOT get better, or will even get worse. Like Bill said, the truth will come out in 2050.



Nothing questionable about the MRIs. To call them that is disingenous at best, and in my opinion a dangerous label to dismiss valid research. From the study - "The imaging sequences used in this study have been well validated, standardized, and locked for the use in multicenter settings" Yes the sample size is small but you have to start somewhere. And the findings from the study acknowledge that - "These findings indicate the need for ongoing investigation of the long-term cardiovascular consequences of COVID-19." People who have spent their whole lives studying hearts are saying that this a concern and it needs to looked into more. I would think that would be concerning to everyone, but apparently not.

Look I know this isn't going to change most of your minds. Everyone is set in their ways and ready to defend their position to the death lol. I just shared the study to illustrate that perhaps caution is still wise - what if it does leave even 10% of the people who get it with damaged hearts? 5%? 25%? And this is only the heart, what about the kidneys? Liver? Lungs? Brain? With so much unknown still I just don't see how we should be hoping for as many people to get this virus as quickly as possible. But I'm just some guy on the internet, just like everyone else here.

BuckSutherland, how are you and the family feeling? Your post from Sunday seemed plenty feisty so I hope that means you're doing well.

100 is statistically meaningless. you would need hundreds of thousands or maybe even millions to become significant.

 

[Peplin Creek]

I’m fairly certain that the death rate would have been much higher had the country not shutdown. No one new a damn thing about this virus. Also hospitals are at full capacity now in areas that are being hit hard so it’s not like people getting infected are just fine.
Thankfully We now have ways to protect the elderly and understand the spread better, which all plays in decreasing the death rate and not give us NYC all over the country.

Masks shouldn’t be a partisan issue IMO but that’s what it turned into. Thankfully the private sector is stepping up and requiring them and I applaud them for it because they are looking at the data and want to be part of solution and not part of the problem. I don’t know if anyone knows with 100% certain masks work or they don’t (studies suggest they help). but seriously what do you have to lose wearing one?

All of these underlying conditions that patients are experiencing because of contracting the virus, shouldn’t be taken lightly either... it just proves that it’s worse, way worse than the normal flu. I feel like the last thing we need now is a bunch more people with new alignments burdening an already crippled health care system. Premiums and coverage suck enough already.

One a slightly more humorous note. Atleast to me... I applaud all of you that still have the stamina to come on this thread and bitch about it everyday.... it’s impressive. Some whole heartedly still fighting the reality of the situation. But I guess all the republicans have to get in touch with their inner liberalism and have a support group every once in while.

Before everyone jumps down my throat.. realize it’s just a joke. I’m making fun of liberals too...Ya’ll keep doing you and have good hunting season.

 

[roymunson]

I’m fairly certain that the death rate would have been much higher had the country not shutdown. No one new a damn thing about this virus. Also hospitals are at full capacity now in areas that are being hit hard so it’s not like people getting infected are just fine.
Thankfully We now have ways to protect the elderly and understand the spread better, which all plays in decreasing the death rate and not give us NYC all over the country.

Masks shouldn’t be a partisan issue IMO but that’s what it turned into. Thankfully the private sector is stepping up and requiring them and I applaud them for it because they are looking at the data and want to be part of solution and not part of the problem. I don’t know if anyone knows with 100% certain masks work or they don’t (studies suggest they help). but seriously what do you have to lose wearing one?

All of these underlying conditions that patients are experiencing because of contracting the virus, shouldn’t be taken lightly either... it just proves that it’s worse, way worse than the normal flu. I feel like the last thing we need now is a bunch more people with new alignments burdening an already crippled health care system. Premiums and coverage suck enough already.

One a slightly more humorous note. Atleast to me... I applaud all of you that still have the stamina to come on this thread and bitch about it everyday.... it’s impressive. Some whole heartedly still fighting the reality of the situation. But I guess all the republicans have to get in touch with their inner liberalism and have a support group every once in while.

Before everyone jumps down my throat.. realize it’s just a joke. I’m making fun of liberals too...Ya’ll keep doing you and have good hunting season.

I know I skipped straight to the end of that novella post and am ready to fight. When do we start?

I'm kidding, i'm headed to the farm where the wife and kids are already there. Spray some plots. Watch deer tonight and tomorrow, and fish with a couple youngsters. Life's too good to get all worked oup.

Plus, MLB baseball is back and the tribe is hot (those Indians are racist beesturds tho)

 

[Peplin Creek]

I know I skipped straight to the end of that novella post and am ready to fight. When do we start?

I'm kidding, i'm headed to the farm where the wife and kids are already there. Spray some plots. Watch deer tonight and tomorrow, and fish with a couple youngsters. Life's too good to get all worked oup.

Plus, MLB baseball is back and the tribe is hot (those Indians are racist beesturds tho)

LoL....Roy, you’re a good man. I hope you lays eyes on a giant velvet buck and You and the youngsters have good time.

 

[Buckly]

I’m fairly certain that the death rate would have been much higher had the country not shutdown. No one new a damn thing about this virus. Also hospitals are at full capacity now in areas that are being hit hard so it’s not like people getting infected are just fine.
Thankfully We now have ways to protect the elderly and understand the spread better, which all plays in decreasing the death rate and not give us NYC all over the country.

Masks shouldn’t be a partisan issue IMO but that’s what it turned into. Thankfully the private sector is stepping up and requiring them and I applaud them for it because they are looking at the data and want to be part of solution and not part of the problem. I don’t know if anyone knows with 100% certain masks work or they don’t (studies suggest they help). but seriously what do you have to lose wearing one?

All of these underlying conditions that patients are experiencing because of contracting the virus, shouldn’t be taken lightly either... it just proves that it’s worse, way worse than the normal flu. I feel like the last thing we need now is a bunch more people with new alignments burdening an already crippled health care system. Premiums and coverage suck enough already.

One a slightly more humorous note. Atleast to me... I applaud all of you that still have the stamina to come on this thread and bitch about it everyday.... it’s impressive. Some whole heartedly still fighting the reality of the situation. But I guess all the republicans have to get in touch with their inner liberalism and have a support group every once in while.

Before everyone jumps down my throat.. realize it’s just a joke. I’m making fun of liberals too...Ya’ll keep doing you and have good hunting season.

I don’t understand these hospitals saying they are at capacity. NY had many more at one time than any of these States now and they only had token use of the extra facilities Trump brought in. Apparently these hospitals didn’t have any capacity anyway. Beats me but they did have time to prepare.

 

[Peplin Creek]

I don’t understand these hospitals saying they are at capacity. NY had many more at one time than any of these States now and they only had token use of the extra facilities Trump brought in. Apparently these hospitals didn’t have any capacity anyway. Beats me but they did have time to prepare.

with the capacity issue.... I’ve thought the samething, And I wonder how many people are having elective surgeries and using up capacity... Or is it all CV? I don’t know if Texas and Florida stopped doing elective surgeries temporarily either?

 

[chummer]

with the capacity issue.... I’ve thought the samething, And I wonder how many people are having elective surgeries and using up capacity... Or is it all CV? I don’t know if Texas and Florida stopped doing elective surgeries temporarily either?

They are not all covid patients. In normal times hospitals are near 90% capacity. I believe they are still doing electives or at least they were till very recently.

 

[Catscratch]

My understanding is that capacity is defined by ICU rooms/beds. Let say a hospital in a town of 13,000 has 4 ICU beds; 2 are designated for cardiac and 2 designated respiratory with the proper equipment and staffing for each. If the 2 respiratory beds are full then they are at 100% capacity, but have room for diversion since Cardiac can hold other ICU patients. Having ICU at capacity or greater than does not necessarily mean the hospital itself is overflowing.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[chummer]

I know I skipped straight to the end of that novella post and am ready to fight. When do we start?

I'm kidding, i'm headed to the farm where the wife and kids are already there. Spray some plots. Watch deer tonight and tomorrow, and fish with a couple youngsters. Life's too good to get all worked oup.

Plus, MLB baseball is back and the tribe is hot (those Indians are racist beesturds tho)

I wore my Indians shirt out in NJ featuring the old drunken Indian. The gas station attendant told me it was illegal and I should take it off. I told him not a chance. He was joking and we had a good masked covered laugh.

 

[chummer]

I’m fairly certain that the death rate would have been much higher had the country not shutdown. No one new a damn thing about this virus. Also hospitals are at full capacity now in areas that are being hit hard so it’s not like people getting infected are just fine.
Thankfully We now have ways to protect the elderly and understand the spread better, which all plays in decreasing the death rate and not give us NYC all over the country.

Masks shouldn’t be a partisan issue IMO but that’s what it turned into. Thankfully the private sector is stepping up and requiring them and I applaud them for it because they are looking at the data and want to be part of solution and not part of the problem. I don’t know if anyone knows with 100% certain masks work or they don’t (studies suggest they help). but seriously what do you have to lose wearing one?

All of these underlying conditions that patients are experiencing because of contracting the virus, shouldn’t be taken lightly either... it just proves that it’s worse, way worse than the normal flu. I feel like the last thing we need now is a bunch more people with new alignments burdening an already crippled health care system. Premiums and coverage suck enough already.

One a slightly more humorous note. Atleast to me... I applaud all of you that still have the stamina to come on this thread and bitch about it everyday.... it’s impressive. Some whole heartedly still fighting the reality of the situation. But I guess all the republicans have to get in touch with their inner liberalism and have a support group every once in while.

Before everyone jumps down my throat.. realize it’s just a joke. I’m making fun of liberals too...Ya’ll keep doing you and have good hunting season.

I don’t find masks political at all. Everyone I know (mostly republican) are wearing them. To assume all liberals wear them and all republicans don’t isn’t even close to reality. Howard Stern bitches about all his neighbors and friends not wearing masks everyday. I am pretty sure he isn’t living or hanging out in republican circles. Most of the people I see not wearing them are in their 20’s. Again not a big republican demographic if they could even tell you what part they are in. Republicans not wearing masks is more fake news. If there was a way to tell I would bet even numbers on both sides are not wearing them. Perhaps you are skewed by this site that is 95% republican so the anti mask people are all republican. Wear a mask!

 

[roymunson]

I wore my Indians shirt out in NJ featuring the old drunken Indian. The gas station attendant told me it was illegal and I should take it off. I told him not a chance. He was joking and we had a good masked covered laugh.

Lol... I made the mistake of buying a shirt with the giant 1948 logo on it a while back. Not my best move.

 

[Knehrke]

I will weigh in briefly on the cardiovascular studies. My lab has been funded for decades to do cardiovascular research (from NHLBI, NIGMS, NIA, and NSF) and I'm involved in AHA - that's my creds. I agree that the numbers are low, but concerning. The research itself, though, appears to be well executed and vetted. The rigor suffices and the results are sufficient premise to look more carefully as we move forward. I hope that there are not cardiovascular complications for COVID patients moving forward. But if there are, then we need to be aware of this, as it could easily impact, for example, prescription choices, or other things that it would be a crime to miss. Why exacerbate a known issue? So, it's important to figure this thing out.

 

[FredG]

With a bear behind every tree I find it somewhat amazing I haven't been eaten yet... but I've certainly twisted a few ankles running from them.

 

[BuckSutherland]

https://kstp.com/coronavirus/attorn...covid-precautions-july-31-2020/5813204/?cat=1


Dirty bastard! Him and his son fanned some major flames to inciting the rioting against police in Minneapolis. This puke is as desirable as stage 4 brain tumor. How dare these people try to make a living. I bet nothing was burned or looted and nobody got murdered in Itasca. Way to go after real criminals asswipe Ellison.

 

[TreeDaddy]

Looks mostly peaceful.......

bill

 

[chummer]

View attachment 30897



https://kstp.com/coronavirus/attorn...covid-precautions-july-31-2020/5813204/?cat=1


Dirty bastard! Him and his son fanned some major flames to inciting the rioting against police in Minneapolis. This puke is as desirable as stage 4 brain tumor. How dare these people try to make a living. I bet nothing was burned or looted and nobody got murdered in Itasca. Way to go after real criminals asswipe Ellison.

He is on the short list for Biden’s attorney general. But Trump says mean things so Biden has to be better.

 

[Buckly]

Looks like I will survive my trip to the Jersey Shore. The couple we traveled with tested negative today.

looks lik NJ getting ready to lockdown again. Governor said he’s had enough of these freedom loving people. LOL.
"I am not announcing any specific action today, but consider this as being put on notice. We will not tolerate these devil-may-care, nonchalant attitudes any more," Murphy said. "We are not past this.”