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Bucks disappearing at age 3 and 4

I know a friend of mine in S.E. Pa. had located a very big buck a few years back in a very busy, high-traffic area. He had seen this deer on numerous occasions, but couldn't figure out where it was bedding. After glassing from a distance for days, he found where the buck was laying up. It was in a small patch of trees and briars - very small patch - out in the middle of a big open field. The buck could see and smell anything coming from all directions. It was in a populated area where no guns could be fired - archery only. Every effort to sneak up on the deer failed. It would either see or smell him every time he tried to approach. Trees weren't big enough to put up a tree stand to try sneaking in during the night.

It just goes to show that the older bucks figure out where to hide and be safe. Nobody would ever think a big bruiser was hiding in that open, tiny patch of cover ........ but he WAS !!
 
Those are dandy bucks!! Really like that one on 10-15 wow!!

Is the any CWD in your area?

Otherwise, I'm thinking your situation may be similar to the rest of us--tough to get the bucks past 4. Rare for me in MN, we get some to 5/6 in Iowa.
 
According to the latest edition of the Wisconsin Buck And Bear Club Trophy Records The number of entries are as followed.

Buffalo County- 1533
Trempealeau County- 638
Dane County- 618
Sauk County- 486
Columbia County- 455
Waupaca County- 388
 
Love to hear steve b opinion in the best counties on the planet what % of bucks will ever break 150. I bet its well under 50%

Well I live right on the border of Buffalo and am there all the time and had a lease there back in the day so I have a good idea what is around. I think it's more than 50% on 5 year olds on many farms there but not many bucks there are reaching that age anymore. In 5 seasons on our lease we took several bucks 4yrs+ and I think our average was in the mid-140's. Half the bucks still had some growing to do and I think we would have ran a little over 50% on 150+ giving them one more year but not much over it. I know some farms in BC that would run more like 35%, it can vary that much here from one area to the next.

It's dang hard to grow a 150, nature by design is against it.
 
Those are dandy bucks!! Really like that one on 10-15 wow!!

Is the any CWD in your area?

Otherwise, I'm thinking your situation may be similar to the rest of us--tough to get the bucks past 4. Rare for me in MN, we get some to 5/6 in Iowa.

When the WI DNR had the CWD zone, we were located in it. We did hear that a neighbor shot a doe probably 6-8 years ago that tested positive for CWD but I'm not concerned with it. We have never found any dead deer in our woods or the neighbors woods. This covers roughly 420 acres.
 
Just because I got bored tonight, I decided to go back to 2009 as that is when we really started using trail cameras. All these bucks except 1 are either 3 or 4 years old. Some of these deer were shot by my cousin and I, some were shot by neighbors. The majority of these deer we have 2 or even 3 years of history with.

167 3 year old shot by myself:

4 year old MIA:

4 year old MIA:

4 year old hit by car:

3 year old MIA:

4 year old MIA:

3 year old shot by neighbors:
 
160 class 4 year old shot by neighbors:


3 year old MIA:

At the time of this photo a 6 year old:

4 year old MIA:

3 year old alive:

3 or 4 year old alive:
 
4 year old MIA:

140 class 3 year old shot by cousin:

125 class 3 year old shot by myself:

152 inch 4 year old hit by car:

3 year old alive:

3 or 4 year old alive:

3 year old alive:
 
4 year old we believe is alive:

160 class 4 year old cousin shot:

Rough score of 145 inch 4 year old shot by neighbors:

3 year old:

3 year old MIA:
 
Now out of the 25 bucks I just posted and I would say that is all of them that I can think of off the top of my head, I would say that 20 of them at some point if given the opportunity would reach 150 inches. Some of them clearly did. That's 80% of our bucks reaching the magic number of 150. I rest my case.
 
There are a handful of places, Buffalo Co being one of them, that have what I believe is a combo of genetics, not too harsh of winters, food and dirt that make them anomalies. I'd have to think harder on this to completely trust what I'm about to write and I just don't have the time right now. So, take this with a grain of salt, but I don't think 50% over 150 even in the Buff COs and SE Iowas at 5.5 is the norm. I know it never has been on any of the BIG grounds I've managed over the years in C MN, SE MN, N MO or IL. Even on the old Kisky farm in Iowa (one of my clients owns it, has Steve Snow manage it, as he did for the previous owner, but the owner shares all sorts of notes with me on the place), there are some unflipping believable bucks on the place. Heck, the owner sent me a ton of pics of what sure the heck looks like a 2.5 to me that flirts with 200", but I'd say they are under 50% for 5.5s breaking 150, and they are specifically managing for top enders to reach 5.5 (they don't have enough hunters to do it right, but it still is better in those regards than nature provides).

I do agree with nofo that a heck of a lot of mature deer are mistaken for being younger because of "meh" headgear. I'd say every bit as many if not more as young deer with impressive racks being mistaken as older deer.

I think there are already a whole bunch of solid reason listed for why Gunther may be experiencing what he is. Here's two more potential reasons:

Once a buck hits 5.5 in most areas, he's the man. He's in absolute peak physical condition (assuming a lack of serious injuries), he knows what he wants and how to get it. He also typically has very few other 5.5s to compete with. that means he can lay claim to the very Best of the Best in his home range. 5.5 is also the age where a relatively high % of bucks really shrink both their core areas and the portions of their home range they spend much significant time in, though a % will be roamers, they are more the exception than the rule. Considering the average home range for mature bucks is somewhere over a square mile and far from symmetrical, few land owners have his entire home range exclusively on their ground. At 3.5, bucks wander all over their home ranges, as they have to work to get breeding opportunities and try to find areas they can dominate. Your 5.5 doesn't HAVE to. So, the odds of seeing the 3.5s that overlap your property are MUCH higher than with the 5.5s. I'd bet that what those 5.5s are seeing as the "best of the best" is unfortunately on a neighbor's ground. In fact, they may even have less desirable habitat, but way less 3.5 &/or 4.5s to have to deal with.

I know deer don't think like us, but think of it this way. You're a 30 yr old in the prime of your life and you're looking to find a girlfriend. your choices are to go to a college bar and put up with all these college jocks budding in on every conversation you are trying to have with each girl you find attractive or you can go to a bar where there are still a good number of girls, but way fewer college guys making idiots of themselves and horning in on your action. The college guys don't intimidate you in the least, but these jocks are obnoxious, pushy jerks that try to get between you and every pretty girl you see. Where are you going to spend your time trying to find a girlfriend? I'm not saying this is what's happening to you, but that I believe this does happen more than most consider.

The other factor not covered is that mortality rates sky rocket from 3.5 to 4.5 and again from 4.5 to 5.5, particularly when there are good numbers of similar aged bucks.. Buck fights and the rigors of dogging does all fall, the 25-30% weight loss that accompanies it, is WAY harder on older bucks than most realize. toss in real winters and it's even worse. Don't quote me on the numbers, as I read this study YEARS ago, but they did a long study in TX on what % of bucks can make it to 5.5. It was a ridiculously huge high fence area with 0 hunting pressure or vehicle fatalities. I can't remember the exact % anymore, but it was less than 1/3rd. That's strictly from natural mortality and they don't even have winters.

I don't pretend to have enough info to even give a solid opinion on what exactly is happening in your situation, Gunther. I do think the odds are it's a combo of things listed in this thread though (mistaking some 5.5s as younger because of "meh" headgear, having too many younger bucks, some shifting their core areas off your ground as they age, a higher natural mortality than you realize and older bucks just being harder to get pics of)
 
PS. I can tell you with 100% confidence that a surprising % of 3.5 year old bucks that seem to have everything going for them to make big jumps just never do. I bet 25% or more that I look at when they're 3.5s, literally licking my lips at what they'll be at 4.5 and 5.5 just never do anything and leave me extremely disappointed. I'm talking 10+ points at 3.5, longish tines, good beams and so on, not even including the 8s or "meh" 3.5 yr old 10s. I'm talking the bucks one looks at and think show superior promise to be something truly special.

In the link below, there is a buck I named Heart Breaker when I first got his pic at 3.5 (named him that because I thought he had everything to one day be a Booner, except for short g2s. His g2s "broke my heart"). the show is on aging deer, but it shows Heart Breaker at 3.5, 4.5 and 5.5. I believe he died from fighting this past year at 6.5, as he was a true home body and no one in the area that I know of killed him, and I keep really good tabs on that. I'm pretty sure we'll find him shed hunting. I actually missed him this past fall on tape. At 6.5, he was still within 5" of what he was at 3.5 or any other year of his life from 3.5. he has been within 5" of 140 at 3.5, 4.5, 5.5 & 6.5. Ways more bucks DON'T jump than we are led to believe, even without major injury or stress, being provided with the ultimate in nutrition

http://video.deeranddeerhunting.com/video/learn-these-specific-tips-to-age-whitetail-bucks/
 
I'm just envious that you can see deer past 3.5 years :)
 
Not to sidetrack this thread, but does anyone believe that the 8 of the top 10 best hunting counties in the nation for big bucks are in Wisconsin?
 
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I have to base my opinion on fact. Officialy scored racks are fact, not wall swag. book entries are fact. So based on known facts yes. Now pass the popcorn, here comes the crowd that will say its n the dna/culture of only these wisconsin counties to enter deer. A societal anomaly.

My ?? was do you believe that Wisconsin has 8 of the top 10 counties in the nation for big bucks? I mean do you actually believe that is the case? You think without a doubt that 8 counties in Wisconsin are far superior for trophy bucks, and only two counties in some other states would compare to them, or rank top 10?
 
Mature bucks are like old men. They prefer solitude. The last thing they want to do is hang around a bunch of hyped up 2 an 3 yr olds full of piss an vinigar.
The first year we had our place we had more mature bucks using our destination food plot than this season. We have atracted lot of younger bucks and doe's with fawns that have more or less taken over the plot. Big boys still come around some but not every ev/night like they were initially. Once the white oaks start dropping they become ghosts.
My attempt at solving this is low pressured micro plots deep in the timber. Seeing a bunch of deer in a sit is cool but I am learning to see the mature boys on my place anyways I must spread the heard out some.
 
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Mature bucks are like old men. They prefer solitude. The last thing they want to do is hang around a bunch of hyped up 2 an 3 yr olds full of puss an vinigar.
The first year we had our place we had more mature bucks using our destination food plot than this season. We have atracted lot of younger bucks and doe's with fawns that have more or less taken over the plot. Big boys still come around some but not every ev/night like they were initially. Once the white oaks start dropping they become ghosts.
My attempt at solving this is low pressured micro plots deep in the timber. Seeing a bunch of deer in a sit is cool but I am learning to see the mature boys on my place anyways I must spread the heard out some.
I don't really have the acreage to do this. The old bucks show up by me looking for doe during the rut. I've come to the conclusion that the rut is really the only time I can sit and reasonably expect to see an old buck. Unfortunately finding time to hunt during the rut has been difficult the last couple years.
 
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