Yep. For me it emphasizes attractiveness of a property, mixed with huntability. They ARE moving. Are they moving where I have a chance to kill them?
Latest MSU Deer Lab Study on Buck Movement
- Thread starter Turkey Creek
- Start date
bueller
Moderator
I find these types of studies super interesting but there are so many factors in play that make each micro location different from each other. We run multiple cameras year round on two parcels less than 1 mile center to center from each other and we typically never see a mature buck frequenting both properties. This is on flat wooded ground with no geological features separating the properties.
BenAllgood
5 year old buck +
I definitely see how observations like that could lead people to believe bucks use smaller areas than they really do.
Turkey Creek
5 year old buck +
Part 2 posted up in the last day. Not a whole lot of interesting things that I would say most of us dont already know. My 2 biggest take aways, mature bucks pick the heaviest cover they can find to bed in. However, they are not loyal to just one or 2 bedding sites. The one buck they referenced had 9 different bedding "spots" over a week's period. Some spots were used only once, and others a few times. I have a heard a couple of talking heads say that bucks used the same beds repeatedly, that didnt seem to be supported by the study. 2nd if you are a moon phase believer, sorry .... zero evidence to show that moon phase had any effect on the amount of hours a bucks spends on his feet, only the rut impacts that.
Telemark
5 year old buck +
Regarding moon phase, I think there is some evidence to show that a full moon on a clear night can affect daytime activity the following day.
Turkey Creek
5 year old buck +
I am not here to argue! LOL One of the professors even had to admit that it was hard to see the data as he has been a deer moon phase guy, but its hard to argue with a million points of data. There data showed no significant change in deer movement day or night that correlated with the moon phase.
T-Max
5 year old buck +
One of the things I like about Bronson and Steve is they are willing to admit when the data contradicts their observations and habits. I can’t remember which podcast, but I think it was Steve that even said he would keep doing something the way he always had even though the data was 100% against it. 
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Turkey Creek
5 year old buck +
They pointed out that there is always "that 1 buck" that will do something out of the norm. Which is true, when looking at this kind of observational data it is the average of several bucks, the average still includes the outliers unless they specifically say they have taken those data points out of the set. The people who argue as an example that my mature buck only lives on 20 acres and doesn't have a home range of 200 acres are missing the point, you have an outlier not the average. Studies aren't conducted on single deer, they are set up to give you an idea of a general population.One of the things I like about Bronson and Steve is they are willing to admit when the data contradicts their observations and habits. I can’t remember which podcast, but I think it was Steve that even said he would keep doing something the way he always had even though the data was 100% against it.
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It is a good thing active buck movement is largely nocturnal - or there would be very few five year old bucks. The mature bucks at my place are very predictable in summer - including daytime movement. Within the first week or two of Oct, bachelor buck breakup time here, is when the bucks become largely nocturnal in the their movements. Even though bow season has just now opened, I dont believe it is human pressure related as there is little to no archery pressure here when temps are still mid 90’s.
And when I say nocturnal - I mean in food plots, fields, open woods, at feed sites, etc. At this time, daytime pictures of these bucks in the thick bedding are about the only somewhat consistent daylight pics. There is a ton of bedding area on my property and on adjacent properties. I agree with the study, these mature bucks do not consistently bed in one area. And with bedding cover spread liberally around the countryside - both on my land and adjacent properties - these bucks become very difficult to pattern.
The rut does give some opportunity to see these deer again - and our rifle season spans the rut. The best time to pattern these deer is late season - Dec and Jan when the rut is largely over and they will SOMETIMES start using the food plots and may slip up and come in during daylight hours. On my property, A bait site will have more consistent summertime diurnal mature buck movement, but during hunting season, a mature buck is much more likely to be seen in daytime in a food plot.
I have a friend who bow hunts a large adjacent property. The last two years, I have had a buck at a feed site on my ground all summer long. I protein feed during the summer. In early Oct, both years, these two bucks stop using my feed site in daylight - not because of pressure - this feed site has only been hunted three times in eight years and there has never been a deer killed there.
My friend does not start baiting until mid Oct. usually about a half mile from my feed site. He hand spreads corn - and both of the last two years; he has picked up the buck using my feed site - usually within the first couple days of feeding. These deer have been very predictable and diurnal. The last two years he has killed his target buck (my target buck) the first day he hunted. The ground he hunts is cattle land with daily human activity - probably a little more than on my ground.
I like the guy - fortunately - and we trade deer information. He now, jokingly, asks me to see my deer pictures to see which deer I have fattened up all summer so he can decide which one he is going to shoot.
And when I say nocturnal - I mean in food plots, fields, open woods, at feed sites, etc. At this time, daytime pictures of these bucks in the thick bedding are about the only somewhat consistent daylight pics. There is a ton of bedding area on my property and on adjacent properties. I agree with the study, these mature bucks do not consistently bed in one area. And with bedding cover spread liberally around the countryside - both on my land and adjacent properties - these bucks become very difficult to pattern.
The rut does give some opportunity to see these deer again - and our rifle season spans the rut. The best time to pattern these deer is late season - Dec and Jan when the rut is largely over and they will SOMETIMES start using the food plots and may slip up and come in during daylight hours. On my property, A bait site will have more consistent summertime diurnal mature buck movement, but during hunting season, a mature buck is much more likely to be seen in daytime in a food plot.
I have a friend who bow hunts a large adjacent property. The last two years, I have had a buck at a feed site on my ground all summer long. I protein feed during the summer. In early Oct, both years, these two bucks stop using my feed site in daylight - not because of pressure - this feed site has only been hunted three times in eight years and there has never been a deer killed there.
My friend does not start baiting until mid Oct. usually about a half mile from my feed site. He hand spreads corn - and both of the last two years; he has picked up the buck using my feed site - usually within the first couple days of feeding. These deer have been very predictable and diurnal. The last two years he has killed his target buck (my target buck) the first day he hunted. The ground he hunts is cattle land with daily human activity - probably a little more than on my ground.
I like the guy - fortunately - and we trade deer information. He now, jokingly, asks me to see my deer pictures to see which deer I have fattened up all summer so he can decide which one he is going to shoot.
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
All this is in the book whitetails from 2009 by Bob Sheppard…..
Have they discussed any research on deer or buck movement before or after a cold front? Before or after a snowstorm? Before or after a big drop in temps?
I hear or read people talk of these things all the time, and have tried to be in stand at the proper times, but have yet to see any evidence of those theories being true.
I hear or read people talk of these things all the time, and have tried to be in stand at the proper times, but have yet to see any evidence of those theories being true.
MadMadHoosier
5 year old buck +
I've mentioned here before, a few years ago we stopped feeding and took our annual corn and feeder budget and started adding CuddeLink cameras. We've put cameras at locations we think are most appropriate and now have about 1 camera for every 10 acres on 550 acres total. Interestingly, as we watch cameras over the year, inevitably we will think about moving a camera because it never gets images. Then all of a sudden it becomes predominate and other cameras show less activity. I know it is some kind of seasonal shift, but we have not been able to identify local deer movement theories - and probably never will. But we have a fairly good idea what lives around our farm and really do enjoy the deer and other wildlife pics.
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
Read whitetails by Bob Sheppard. Did most research ever done on deer movement with 100,00 hunter days of data. The only three things that help deer move more in daylight are In order
1. Colder than average for the day and area
2. Clear day
3. The windier the better.
All other like pressure, fronts, wind direction, moon had no correlation. Now a front might bring colder weather which helps, but it’s not the front. If it was a warm front it would hurt.
Telemark
5 year old buck +
Do you keep a spreadsheet?
Turkey Creek
5 year old buck +
Interesting about the windier the better comment. Must be an area where "windy" is defined differently than out here on the great plains. Not that I have scientific proof, but those days where the wind is 30 mph or over have never been good to me in terms of seeing deer on their feet. With that being said I don't think light wind days are preferred by deer either as their sense of smell becomes less reliable with a swirling wind as they can't pinpoint the direction of the source.
Turkey Creek
5 year old buck +
I will post that question and see if they respond. I have not heard them mention that I recall. Not sure how easy it would be to correlate that data without putting in some serious hours of data analysis focused on that.
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
He linked hunter surveys at large hunting preserves with NOAA weather data for 25 years.
The issue with hunters, me included, is we link personal experience to successful outcomes. For one, ten, or 100 hunters it’s all luck. He looked at 100,000 hunter days worth of data.
I was the same way, and he was too for a long time. Sure you might kill a monster on a day when 1% of the deer are walking around in the daylight. But that doesn’t mean it was a great day for deer to be walking around in the daylight….
Bob had killed several thousand deer by the time he wrote the book. He had a lot of notions on what were best conditions to see deer when hunting. Probably more first hand knowledge than any living human (no hyperbole). And he is first to admit that much of what he thought from experience was dead wrong.
If you kill a monster on day after a full moon, then two years later do the same, you will swear the moon played a role. And you would be completely wrong.
With you writing your blog, read the book. Will take a day and cost you 5 dollars. Most every book I’ve ever read on hunting is one guys experience. That’s about worthless honestly.
Turkey Creek
5 year old buck +
No doubt that human bias, based on personal experience, creates some false scenarios. I have heard that brought up on a couple of podcasts lately. Such as I killed a great buck in this stand in 2015, so I am going to keep hunting from it, etc... even though I have never seen a good buck from that stand since. That is why I try to steer away from sources of data that aren't actual scientific studies. I will take a look at what he wrote.
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
Sometimes I’m too direct in these messages because typing in phone. Sorry my man.
Expert opinion is not without merit. I take the stuff I learn from you in trees very seriously and I enjoy your blog so far. People that do something for a living do gain a ton of knowledge from doing it and they most likely expose themselves to a ton of the data.
The book changed my hunting for the better. And I know Bob (now in 80’s). He never bragged on his book even though so many people told me how much it helped their hunting (regionally famous guy). Once I read it I understood why. Takes all the things we have always heard about hunting and tells me which ones actually matter!
Heading to the deer stand now!
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