Buck Survey: Wet/Cold Snap Killing fawns

[CedarSwamp]

I remember a spring where right around the end of May/beginning of June where we had a wet weather combined with a cold snap in Wisconsin. I believe there was a post on this on the QDMA forum where a few members noticed high fawn mortality during that cold snap. Does anyone know what I'm talking about and remember what year that was?

We're working on our first annual "Buck Survey" where we go through every buck picture that we have from September - November and identify every individual buck and record estimated age, estimated antler score, which "zones" we had pictures of it in, and the farthest known distance that each buck traveled that year. From my estimations we have the following:
1 1/2 year old bucks - 35
2 1/2 year old bucks - 7
3 1/2 year old bucks - 12
4 1/2 year old bucks - 7
5 1/2 year old bucks - 0
6 1/2 year old bucks - 1

We knew we had a lot less 2 year olds this year, but once I got these numbers down it was astonishing that it was so low. These stats are from just under 1,000 acres and several different properties all within 2 miles of each other utilizing about 25 total trail cameras.

I think the cold snap was Spring 2013 so that wouldn't be a theory of why so few 2 year olds, but I don't know for sure. I looked at the historic temperatures for Green Bay, WI and 2013 and 2015 had some cold nights around that time of the year. I'm thinking it was 2013.

The yearlings are easy to age. I'm fairly certain on most of the two years except one or two. The three year olds we're pretty confident on except for maybe 3 and the four year old we're pretty confident on them except that 2 could be 5 1/2. The older ones we have a lot of history on them so we can look at the past few years of pictures to get an idea of when they were 2 1/2 years old to help with our confidence with aging. The 6 1/2 year old I'm confident on because a neighbor had picks of him in 2013 when he looked to be a solid 3 1/2 year old, but it is possible he was a 4 1/2 year old at that time and thus 7 years old now. He may actually be a little smaller antler wise this year than last year, but stomach looks bigger this year. Regardless, we know we won't be perfect with our aging, but doing this on an annual basis will provide us with good information.

It's amazing how many of the 2 1/2 year olds, 3 1/2 year olds, and 4 1/2 year olds got shot this season. The 6 1/2 year old was shot the last week of archery season per the local rumors.
I'm pretty disappointed in the average score of each age class as well. It is amazing how small some of the 3 1/2 and 4 1/2 year old buck are by their antler score. Some of the 2 1/2 year olds have racks that would make you think they're just yearlings if you weren't studying the body.

 

[rocksnstumps]

I remember a couple of very wet Junes four maybe five years ago but trying to pin down which year. 2012/2013 was the one of our harder winters in many years however as pics show the trees blossomed out almost 2 wks later than normal in 2013. That time you speak of was also hard on the turkeys locally. Wet cold springs take a toll on young poults too, especially the critical first couple of weeks. The June we had tons of rain did a number on the corn fields too, lots of flooding out. A local spot by me became a 4-5 acre pond for almost 2 months. Some wisecracking neighbor even anchored a john boat with a dummy fisherman out in the "pond" and put up a sign about So and So's lake.

 

[sandbur]

I remember a spring where right around the end of May/beginning of June where we had a wet weather combined with a cold snap in Wisconsin. I believe there was a post on this on the Old forum where a few members noticed high fawn mortality during that cold snap. Does anyone know what I'm talking about and remember what year that was?

We're working on our first annual "Buck Survey" where we go through every buck picture that we have from September - November and identify every individual buck and record estimated age, estimated antler score, which "zones" we had pictures of it in, and the farthest known distance that each buck traveled that year. From my estimations we have the following:
1 1/2 year old bucks - 35
2 1/2 year old bucks - 7
3 1/2 year old bucks - 12
4 1/2 year old bucks - 7
5 1/2 year old bucks - 0
6 1/2 year old bucks - 1

We knew we had a lot less 2 year olds this year, but once I got these numbers down it was astonishing that it was so low. These stats are from just under 1,000 acres and several different properties all within 2 miles of each other utilizing about 25 total trail cameras.

....... Some of the 2 1/2 year olds have racks that would make you think they're just yearlings if you weren't studying the body.

I can see you put lots of time into this and it must be very interesting. I have found that many of the bucks we kill and consider 2.5 years old are actually yearlings. You need to look at tooth eruption to be sure. Very experienced hunters have looked at pictures of the deer and have been surprised at what the teeth actually show. Still, your data will indicate trends.

 

[Greta&Gus]

What was the average antler score per age group?

 

[alldaysit]

This past spring of 2016 we had lots of rain and a late may frost.

The spring of 2013 I was hinge cutting in late April on the snow pack that was nearly waste deep. I broke through a few times. I don't think our small river opened up until May sometime that year. This last year it was open in March.

Another thing that demands attention is lack or unavailability of the antlerless permits of seasons past. The past few seasons in my county with lack of antlerless permits has dramatically helped the buck population, indirectly.


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[CedarSwamp]

 

[CedarSwamp]

What was the average antler score per age group?

I just posted a picture that has the average antler scores. Pretty interesting

 

[CedarSwamp]

I can see you put lots of time into this and it must be very interesting. I have found that many of the bucks we kill and consider 2.5 years old are actually yearlings. You need to look at tooth eruption to be sure. Very experienced hunters have looked at pictures of the deer and have been surprised at what the teeth actually show. Still, your data will indicate trends.

That was exactly our thoughts regarding accuracy. We figured the trends would be valuable even if we were making mistakes aging and scoring them as we should be consistently making the same mistakes. The more area we cover the better the reliability of the statistics will be.

We are getting jaw bones from neighboring hunters, roadkill, and the deer we shoot as a way to get better accuracy and check our guesses. We have two jaw bones from gun season on bucks we guessed to be 4 1/2. They both were 4 1/2. One was sent to a lab as well for aging.

Our accuracy for aging I think is fairly poor on deer 3 1/2 or older if it is the first time we have seen them, but for the ones that we have 2 or 3 years of history on I think we are pretty accurate. We did have a really small buck that got shoot that I would have been 99% sure it was a yearly and it was a 2 1/2 when we aged the jaw....so we can never be certain on the age!

 

[CedarSwamp]

View attachment 12200

These numbers are not final. I don't have the distance traveled done for all the bucks which is basically the farthest distance between two points that we know a bucks was at during some point in the year.

Plus I want my brothers to double check my aging and scoring in case they disagree with my estimates.

 

[Greta&Gus]

View attachment 12200

Your stats are almost spot on to what mine are. Where are you located? I think your antler scores per age class is an excellent representation of a natural herd in the vast majority of the country. I honestly wouldn't worry much about one year having a bad fawn survival rate. Over the course of time you will see swings that are going to be out liners but it will average out. Bucks of that year may have a chance to express higher antler growth due to less competition. Just a thought.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

Your scores at different ages are fairly similar to what I see in se mn and nw wi. If anything Your scores might be a bit higher than what I see at the older ages. I send in my teeth for aging and have found deer we used to think are 2.5 or 3.5 are actually older. That is pretty cool that you have that many guys in your neighborhood that share pictures.

 

[CedarSwamp]

Your stats are almost spot on to what mine are. Where are you located? I think your antler scores per age class is an excellent representation of a natural herd in the vast majority of the country. I honestly wouldn't worry much about one year having a bad fawn survival rate. Over the course of time you will see swings that are going to be out liners but it will average out. Bucks of that year may have a chance to express higher antler growth due to less competition. Just a thought.

We are an hour North of Green Bay, Wisconsin.

We really bulked up on our number of cameras which has helped us really keep track of what is happening. We see a lot of shifting of core areas in bucks. It is more common that we ever would have thought. Their ranges are larger than I think I would have thought previously. We hope to expand this survey to 3 or 4 more land owners and get the total acreage to around 2,000+ acres with each land owner around a mile apart. That would really enhance the stats that we can share at our hunting socials where we invite all the neighbors to the town hall and talk deer hunting. We get around 50 to 60 people to show up and keep it exclusive to only people who hunt in the immediate area. It helps build respect of each others' hunting preferences and property. We keep stressing to not judge each other and to find areas of similarities where neighbors can work together. It's been a fun experience and we are in year two right now of the group.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

That sounds cool. Have you noticed if certain properties seem to draw in and kill more bucks during the season than others? Might be a good way to figure out what to do habitat wise to bring in the bucks during the hunting season.

 

[CedarSwamp]

That sounds cool. Have you noticed if certain properties seem to draw in and kill more bucks during the season than others? Might be a good way to figure out what to do habitat wise to bring in the bucks during the hunting season.

Definitely notice properties near food sources see good action in early season and the deeper in the woods you go the less early season action you see. Then the reverse is true during the rut. So some guys with deeper woods properties have put in food plots to improve the early season and it definitely brings in early season action.

 

[Jameson]

The former wildlife manager for the metro parks once warned us hunters not to expect many 2.5 year old bucks for the hunt as they had rainy cold weather at the time when those deer would have been born. He mentioned that another of his parks about 30 miles to the north didn't have the same issue as it did not get hit with the same storms.

 

[Greta&Gus]

We are an hour North of Green Bay, Wisconsin.

We really bulked up on our number of cameras which has helped us really keep track of what is happening. We see a lot of shifting of core areas in bucks. It is more common that we ever would have thought. Their ranges are larger than I think I would have thought previously. We hope to expand this survey to 3 or 4 more land owners and get the total acreage to around 2,000+ acres with each land owner around a mile apart. That would really enhance the stats that we can share at our hunting socials where we invite all the neighbors to the town hall and talk deer hunting. We get around 50 to 60 people to show up and keep it exclusive to only people who hunt in the immediate area. It helps build respect of each others' hunting preferences and property. We keep stressing to not judge each other and to find areas of similarities where neighbors can work together. It's been a fun experience and we are in year two right now of the group.

You should post another thread on the building of your co-op, I think you have a lot to offer. I also like that you point out not judging others for what they have or shoot. One guy might be retired and able to hunt every weekend while another might have 3 kids in sports and only able to hunt 5 or 6 days a year. Hard to compare the two.

I am no expert on buck ranges but I have tried to read as much as possible and apply that to my property. Core home ranges are one thing but it seems to me that during the rut a 5 or 6 mile radius is nothing for an active buck. Keep up the great work and I am sure that the one year of a wet spring wont ruin your entire hunting experience.

 

[Greta&Gus]

Your scores at different ages are fairly similar to what I see in se mn and nw wi. If anything Your scores might be a bit higher than what I see at the older ages. I send in my teeth for aging and have found deer we used to think are 2.5 or 3.5 are actually older. That is pretty cool that you have that many guys in your neighborhood that share pictures.

The bucks are actually older huh? This is interesting. What are the ages and scores of the deer you are referring to?

 

[CedarSwamp]

 

[CedarSwamp]

View attachment 12209

These are the hunter harvested data that we've collected for our area. We also have a bunch of roadkill recorded, but don't have those included in these numbers. We still need to get those organized.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

The bucks are actually older huh? This is interesting. What are the ages and scores of the deer you are referring to?

We have shot several 5.5 and 6.5 year old bucks in the 90-110" range that we assumed were younger until the tooth aging results came back. shot one 4.5 year old that was smaller than that. Nearly all had blocky bodies of old bucks, just not the greatest racks. they all come off the same properties that produce great bucks occasionally, but some bucks never grow big racks.