Baiting dilemma

[j-bird]

I'll poke the bee hive.... A food plot (in most cases) is essentially the same in purpose as a bait pile! Man is introducing something for the consumption of the deer (directly or indirectly) to assist in the harvest of the animal. You can talk about all the secondary benefits of a plot until your blue in the face....it doesn't matter. The majority of hunters put out bait or plots for the sole purpose to assist them in killing deer. If the law was written to outlaw that sole purpose....we would not see near the number of plots we do. So from that perspective...a food source is a food source.

You have to figure out how to best deal with those influences beyond your property. All those neighbor bait piles are not any different than if they had large white oak groves or standing corn and bean fields and you did not.

You have to combat those the same way. Provide better cover (physically and with hunting pressure) and provide a competitive food source(s). Other than that....until you implement a fence or control 1,000's of acres....it's simply a fact of life. Will you draw deer from the neighbors with cover and food...yes. Will some of the deer that use your place still wander to the neighbors for various reasons....yes. All you can hope for is that they hunt sloppy and alert deer and push them away or that they are only casual hunters and bad weather and the like limit their hunting.

All just my 2 cents worth!

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I'll poke the bee hive.... A food plot (in most cases) is essentially the same in purpose as a bait pile! Man is introducing something for the consumption of the deer (directly or indirectly) to assist in the harvest of the animal. You can talk about all the secondary benefits of a plot until your blue in the face....it doesn't matter. The majority of hunters put out bait or plots for the sole purpose to assist them in killing deer. If the law was written to outlaw that sole purpose....we would not see near the number of plots we do. So from that perspective...a food source is a food source.

You have to figure out how to best deal with those influences beyond your property. All those neighbor bait piles are not any different than if they had large white oak groves or standing corn and bean fields and you did not.

You have to combat those the same way. Provide better cover (physically and with hunting pressure) and provide a competitive food source(s). Other than that....until you implement a fence or control 1,000's of acres....it's simply a fact of life. Will you draw deer from the neighbors with cover and food...yes. Will some of the deer that use your place still wander to the neighbors for various reasons....yes. All you can hope for is that they hunt sloppy and alert deer and push them away or that they are only casual hunters and bad weather and the like limit their hunting.

All just my 2 cents worth!

Totally agree. I guess I also question is the draw of a bait pile so great that all the habitat management and enhancement in the world is in vain if someone pours a pile of corn on the ground? I would love to believe that a properly managed piece of ground is more enticing to a deer than bait. But it may not be that way...

 

[SwampCat]

I don’t doubt they will do it, my issue was based more on the fact that I personally don’t want to do it and won’t shoot a deer over bait BUT I also don’t want to be a stubborn idiot and have a property devoid of deer while my neighbors throw out some corn and have good hunts. I have worked hard in 9 short months getting the property better but I often wonder if all that effort can be undone by a trip to tractor supply and $7

I am exactly in your same boat. I have 300 acres. I have nine food plots totaling 24 acres. Year round food plots. I have native warm season grass established. I have select cut just to improve deer habitat. I work hard to control predators. I am retired, I live on my ground, I have two tractors and multiple implements. I spend a ton of time and money managing my ground. I didnt bait - except for hogs in the spring. However, a couple of years ago I started hand spreading some corn a couple weeks for my young grand daughters to hunt with a crossbow. But I still couldnt make myself hunt a corn pile. I had five shooter bucks on camera pre-season last year. I killed one. A neighbor killed one with a bow on some public near my ground. The other three were killed by three different 10 to 20 acre adjacent property owners hunting a corn pile. Big bucks WILL leave excellent habitat to visit corn piles. I dont know if they are doing it primarily to feed or to check for does - it doesnt matter. I work at least 1000 hours a year on my place, and the next door neighbor spends $200 a year on corn and has better luck. I believe there is also another reason for the corn pile hunters success - on their 20 acres - that is all they have to hunt. If these folks didnt have a corn pile - they might never have a deer walk across their land. So, they are hunting that corn pile all the time - and they are there when that big buck shows up during daylight hours that one time all fall. I have twenty stands spread out on my place. My odds of being in the right one when that buck comes through in the day time are not good. If you feed enough corn, you can get deer to habitually show up - which means they dont necessarily leave when the acorns fall.

Long story short - I am going to hunt over bait this year. I am tired of my neighbors who own ten acres with a corn feeder behind their house killing ALL the nice bucks - shooting some of them off their back porch while drinking coffee. I sometimes go three or four years without killing a buck. I have neighbors who kill one or two nice bucks every year - that I grew.

 

[Mortenson]

They've been sniping deer on the adjoining property for several years in a row now. The tent and corn pile is about .5 mile away from my fence. The deer can leave our farm and get to the pile almost entirely inside heavy cover. They start the day season ends and snipe for 2.5 months. They use rifles and night vision optics. All I can say is that they haven't killed all the deer yet, and that somehow, someway, some of the bucks are steering clear of the pile. I like to think some of the food plots and low intrusion being cooperated among the neighbors during that time period is helping. I wonder if it's more of a case that bucks really have a preferred home range that they won't stray from.

 

[SwampCat]

Totally agree. I guess I also question is the draw of a bait pile so great that all the habitat management and enhancement in the world is in vain if someone pours a pile of corn on the ground? I would love to believe that a properly managed piece of ground is more enticing to a deer than bait. But it may not be that way...

Understand that a properly managed piece of ground is about more than just killing a buck. Every area is different - but in my area, it is all about the does. In 2013, I had four does on my camera surveys. Last year, I had 22. Buck numbers have reaponded accordingly. I managed primarily to increase my doe numbers, which produced the buck fawns, and also attracted buck from great distances. I know my success in increasing deer numbers has benefitted my neighbors, along with my family. I enjoy seeing fifteen deer a day instead a deer every other hunt. I have been successful increasing my overall deer herd - but I also like to kill a buck every now and then - especially when I know the reason he is here is because of my efforts. That is why I intend to increase my odds this year using corn as bait. And those bucks have to be killed before gun season - by bow or muzzle loader.

 

[ksgobbler]

My experience is when the acorns drop they quit hitting the feeder. When the acorns are gone they start using it again.

 

[Baker]

If only I had about 10 acres next to the best deer pasture on earth how much money could I save and still kill some of the best they are growing!!! I wouldn't spend 365 days a year working on habitat, filling feeders, cultivating food plots, getting trail cam pics, etc. etc. However I would be lost not knowing what to do with all the extra time and money. All that work and effort is where the real passion is.

What happens when the 10 acre neighbor sets up camp with a feeder next to the property and habitat we all work so hard to cultivate is this. Initially he..or you ..may still have the opportunity at a mature buck cause maybe there are some of them around. But over time if the 10 acre neighbor shoots everything then they start killing all the 1 and 2 year olds which are uneducated and vulnerable. Over time then there is no older age class bucks, only recent recruitment. Thats when 3 yr olds become the " mature trophy" everyone gets excited about Its a story played out all over the country for years now.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

In Wisconsin I've seen baiting beat habitat improvements/plots, etc. Nothing draws deer into a specific spot like a pile of corn.

 

[davidhelmly]

Hope to not ruffle any feathers but I will come out and say it! I despise baiting. Think it turns wildlife into livestock. Takes the woodsmanship out of hunting. I personally have zero interest in ever shooting an animal over a pile of corn. With that said I own land in a state where baiting is so ingrained in the hunting culture I’m not sure the majority would know how to hunt without it. This is my first deer season hunting here and where I previously hunted baiting was illegal so a nonissue. With that said I’m sure every one of my neighbors has corn out coming soon. I have 250 acres, so not enough to actually hold deer on my property exclusively.
My question is, can anyone speak to the draw of corn over a well managed habitat with little pressure (just me). I hate the idea of losing a mature deer to some guy sitting over a 100lb pile of corn on the middle of a hardwood bottom. Granted he has every right to that deer as I do as long as he’s legal but I have every right to try to protect it! My other question is does anyone fill feeders and put them in a “sanctuary” within their property as a defense mechanism to hold deer from wandering?
Just curious on others take with this issue.

I am in the same boat as you on baiting, completely despise it but it's now legal here in GA too and most do it. I run a 1250 ace archery only club here and don't allow hunting over any bait and all of our members love that rule but hard core archery hunters are a different breed and don't look for shortcuts. Some will argue that plots and bait are the same thing which is like saying a go cart and an airplane are the same thing but baiters grasp at straws.
We do feed protein feed outside of deer season as there is no agriculture in our area and thick planted pines offer great cover but not so much nutrition. I believe that having a sanctuary feeder can be of help, we run 2 during the season in out of bounds areas that see tons of use all season long.

Well everyone has their own ethics. Some people look at food plots as cheating. Most mature deer won't visit a feeder during daylight hours. Baiting isn't all it is cracked up to be. The deer know it is a setup and are very wary of coming in except for well after dark. That being said it can be effective especially at certain times of the year.

Personally I wouldn't worry about it and just hunt. I learned a long time ago to now worry about how others hunted and I just worry about myself. Worrying about others will drive you crazy.

I will completely disagree about mature bucks not using a feeder in daylight, I can get daylight pics of every mature buck on our property every week at a feeder, before season or during.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I am in the same boat as you on baiting, completely despise it but it's now legal here in GA too and most do it. I run a 1250 ace archery only club here and don't allow hunting over any bait and all of our members love that rule but hard core archery hunters are a different breed and don't look for shortcuts. Some will argue that plots and bait are the same thing which is like saying a go cart and an airplane are the same thing but baiters grasp at straws.
We do feed protein feed outside of deer season as there is no agriculture in our area and thick planted pines offer great cover but not so much nutrition. I believe that having a sanctuary feeder can be of help, we run 2 during the season in out of bounds areas that see tons of use all season long.


I will completely disagree about mature bucks not using a feeder in daylight, I can get daylight pics of every mature buck on our property every week at a feeder, before season or during.

I know you run a great club and am encouraged by your methods. Granted you have way more land than me but we all have borders and neighbors. I am leaning towards a sanctuary with a feeder or two but I will not hunt over it...wouldn’t want to regardless. Means nothing to me personally to kill a deer with it’s head in a feeder.

 

[davidhelmly]

I know you run a great club and am encouraged by your methods. Granted you have way more land than me but we all have borders and neighbors. I am leaning towards a sanctuary with a feeder or two but I will not hunt over it...wouldn’t want to regardless. Means nothing to me personally to kill a deer with it’s head in a feeder.

About like shooting a kid standing at the ice cream truck.

 

[Turkish]

If your ethically worried about it then don't bait, hunt November funnels and pinch points instead. Bucks will be on their feet looking for does and traveling great distances that are sure to cross your land. If you're worried about the neighbors controlling the deer to the point that you don't enjoy hunting then put out your own piles. Hunt the piles or don't. The thing about corn is that it's an equal opportunity situation. If your neighbors can do it then so can you. Ultimately YOU have to be happy with the deer you shoot and how you shot it. It's just a deer... the hunt is what matters and I suspect you already know your answer.

This is the rub. I’m convinced widespread, religious hunting over bait stations in my area has caused the deer to become more nocturnal. So, while I make the decision to live and let live on the baiting debate, it IS impacting my experience.

 

[yoderjac]

Baiting is illegal in my state, and now that CWD has arrived, supplemental feeding of deer is prohibited completely in many areas whether you are hunting or not. Having said that, several of our neighbors operate feeders before and during the season and hunt over them. Every now and then the game warden will catch one and cite them.

I don't feel the least threatened by their baiting. We don't do it. I stopped running mineral licks quite a few years ago because they were not achieving the objective (inventory pictures of bucks) any better than my silent black flash wireless cameras on small food plots and they pose some level of disease risk.

We have a pretty vigorous food plot program, and it is pretty easy to shoot does and fawn and young bucks (if we wanted) over them. But hunting over food is not the best place for us to kill a mature buck. Frankly, the best place is anywhere you happen to be during the rut. The second best place is between bedding and food but close to bedding.

Deer react differently, including mature bucks, based on individual personalities as well as food availability, hunting pressure, predator (coyote in our case) pressure, and many other factors.

One key, especially for the small property owner, is to think like a deer instead of thinking in terms of my place and my neighbors place. Deer think (actually behave is a better word) in terms of their range. Terrain, vegetation, weather, ... and the list of factors goes on. Food is in the list, but not at the top most of the time. I like to start with two concentric circles with your property in the middle. The first circle contains about 1,000 acres. That is a ball park number for the home range of a buck in average habitat. What is in that circle and how do deer relate to it. The second circle is 3 miles in diameter and the same questions apply.

There are two ends of the spectrum when we talk about property management for deer. One end is QDM where the objective is to improve the health and age/social structure of the local deer herd. This requires scale. The other end is managing to improve hunting which does not require scale in most cases, although it does help. Then, there is a lot of grey area in between those two ends of the spectrum.

If I had the choice to own 50 acres of swamp thicket in the midst of a thousand acres of prime farm land or own the farm land, in terms of deer hunting, I'd choose the swamp. I'd much rather have someone provide the food. The same holds true for a small property owner surrounded by hunting pressure. Let them bait all they want. I'd be focused on cover habitat and sanctuary. Sure they will kill some mature bucks, but not as many or as mature. Bucks that will venture to a feeder during shooting hours will not live nearly as long as those who don't.

Some folks think of hunting as a competition between hunters. That is bassackwards in my book. As long as my neighbor is not poaching on my property and stays within the law, I hope he is successful. That will encourage them to introduce our sport to new hunters helping quell the attrition rate. The competition is between the hunter and the quarry and as long as fair chase is employed, I've had a successful hunt no matter which of us wins on any given day.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[SwampCat]

I know you run a great club and am encouraged by your methods. Granted you have way more land than me but we all have borders and neighbors. I am leaning towards a sanctuary with a feeder or two but I will not hunt over it...wouldn’t want to regardless. Means nothing to me personally to kill a deer with it’s head in a feeder.

Most of us move through different phases - I have never killed a deer over "bait" - in almost sixty years of hunting. For fifteen years, I hunted only with a bow. Two years ago, I started hunting again with a rifle - and I experienced a much more laid back hunting experience than with a bow. Very enjoyable at my age of 65. Hate to admit it, but something a little easier is not a bad thing at my age - and I am not talking about an easier kill - I am talking about easier hunting conditions. I see many more deer while hunting with a firearm because of different stand locations I choose. I get to hunt a lot of different locations, because I am not having to find the right tree to climb within 30 yards of the deer sign. I don't kill any more deer with a rifle - maybe less - because I became more selective. I actually enjoy the hunt more. I look at moving to baiting somewhat in the same way (I had to justify it in my mind). I am not looking to kill a bunch of deer off a corn pile. My justification is improving my odds of killing a bigger buck, that I grew, before my ten acre owning, adjacent neighbor does. It is almost like self defense. I like it to building a five acre pond on your place, and 100 feet of the shoreline gets over on your neighbors land. I paid the $40K for the dam. I paid to have all the fish stocked. I manage the fish by releasing them to grow larger, or removing some to prevent stunting. My neighbor puts up an auto fish feeder on his property and attracts a boiling horde of fish to his 1/10th acre of water - and catches all he can. When I hunt over bait this year - it is going to be with the express purpose of killing one of the two or three bigger deer that stay on my place most of the time. There wont be any small bucks or does killed over my feeder - I just cant stand anymore spending tens of thousands of dollars every year just so my neighbors can have good deer hunting. It is about harvesting the fruits of my labor. For a long time - I just considered my neighbors killing almost all "my" big bucks as just a cost of doing business. They have enjoyed the fruits of my labor for too long.

 

[yoderjac]

This is the rub. I’m convinced widespread, religious hunting over bait stations in my area has caused the deer to become more nocturnal. So, while I make the decision to live and let live on the baiting debate, it IS impacting my experience.

I doubt it. While hunting pressure, regardless of type, may make deer more nocturnal, I don't see how hunting over bait specifically would matter.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[SwampCat]

This is the rub. I’m convinced widespread, religious hunting over bait stations in my area has caused the deer to become more nocturnal. So, while I make the decision to live and let live on the baiting debate, it IS impacting my experience.

Rest assured, baiting affects adjacent landowners. I own over 300 acres, with all kinds of food plots and habitat managed just for deer. I have three different neighbors who own a combined 60 acres - and do no management at all - and over the past four years, they have killed about 2/3rds of the mature bucks.

 

[ethompson]

I have 3 feeders that I keep going year round. Imagine the countless animals that feed off one theses feeders. 2 months out the year I"m allowed to shoot deer. I haven't shot a deer in a while because I am not mad at them. Just picky. I love to sit in the stand (is what we call them in Tx) and just watch what comes to the feeder. Now a different story. We have hogs. Feeder/stand combination in a good way to make sure your rifle is on all year.

 

[cspot]

I am in the same boat as you on baiting, completely despise it but it's now legal here in GA too and most do it. I run a 1250 ace archery only club here and don't allow hunting over any bait and all of our members love that rule but hard core archery hunters are a different breed and don't look for shortcuts. Some will argue that plots and bait are the same thing which is like saying a go cart and an airplane are the same thing but baiters grasp at straws.
We do feed protein feed outside of deer season as there is no agriculture in our area and thick planted pines offer great cover but not so much nutrition. I believe that having a sanctuary feeder can be of help, we run 2 during the season in out of bounds areas that see tons of use all season long.


I will completely disagree about mature bucks not using a feeder in daylight, I can get daylight pics of every mature buck on our property every week at a feeder, before season or during.

You say that your feeders are in sanctuaries and therefore aren't hunted over. That makes a difference. Certain areas of the country are probably different but I will say where there is plenty of natural food around and a fair amount of hunting pressure that mature deer will seldom visit a feeder in daylight. Just from my experience. If you remove one or both of the conditions above then it changes.

 

[Turkish]

I doubt it. While hunting pressure, regardless of type, may make deer more nocturnal, I don't see how hunting over bait specifically would matter.

Thanks,

Jack

By being so much more effective as an attractant and by being the ONLY place a hunter can be found, how would it NOT increase daytime deer/hunter encounters?

I wish you were correct, but my own 30 years of observations, before and after introduction of baiting, indicates that’s not the case for my specific spot.

 

[cspot]

I'll poke the bee hive.... A food plot (in most cases) is essentially the same in purpose as a bait pile! Man is introducing something for the consumption of the deer (directly or indirectly) to assist in the harvest of the animal. You can talk about all the secondary benefits of a plot until your blue in the face....it doesn't matter. The majority of hunters put out bait or plots for the sole purpose to assist them in killing deer. If the law was written to outlaw that sole purpose....we would not see near the number of plots we do. So from that perspective...a food source is a food source.

You have to figure out how to best deal with those influences beyond your property. All those neighbor bait piles are not any different than if they had large white oak groves or standing corn and bean fields and you did not.

You have to combat those the same way. Provide better cover (physically and with hunting pressure) and provide a competitive food source(s). Other than that....until you implement a fence or control 1,000's of acres....it's simply a fact of life. Will you draw deer from the neighbors with cover and food...yes. Will some of the deer that use your place still wander to the neighbors for various reasons....yes. All you can hope for is that they hunt sloppy and alert deer and push them away or that they are only casual hunters and bad weather and the like limit their hunting.

All just my 2 cents worth!

I agree. I live in PA where no baiting is allowed. In years with a large white acorn drop, my early bow season will suck because the deer will mainly be on the neighbors property as there is a large amount of white oaks. Just the way that it is.

I also hunt Ohio where most everyone uses bait. In my opinion it actually suppresses natural movement somewhat as most of the mature deer simply wait until after dark to go from feeder to feeder. They don't need to move in daylight to feed. All in all like you said you just have to adjust to it. In the few years that I have hunted it I have killed a couple of mature deer and didn't kill either one coming into a feeder.