Are the glory days of deer hunting coming to a close?

[SwampCat]

I think a bunch of posts are missing the point. I don’t think numbers will decline. Maybe the contrary. I all but guarantee less than 10% of the shots I heard this weekend were does. I also would be willing to be an overwhelming majority were 2.5/3.5 year old bucks. This is what I’m referring to as a decline in quality. We have become so efficient at killing, and frankly so many hunters seem content on the first 120” deer (I’m using that as a midwest metric, inches in your neck of the woods may vary!) that walks by that the end result of a weekend in the woods is rarely in question…an immature buck will die.

Yes there are outliers and anomalies and exceptions to every rule and every behavior. There are guys who are trying to manage and balance a herd and get the bucks to maturity. Unfortunately “it takes a village”! Unless you are that .01% that owns enough land, eventually I believe, your deer quality will fall.

And for everyone that says it’s all great where I’m at, awesome. But these things operate on a lag. All this cheap tech at our disposal and certain ridiculous laws are just making their way into the herd dynamics. It could be several years before we have the clarity of hindsight to say remember when….

The hunting in my area, on anything over a couple hundred acres, is largely for mature bucks. More-so than any time in the 43 years I have hunted here. The controlling factor on our deer herd is largely the ten to 40 acre land owner who sees no benefit in trying to grow deer. But overall, it is the best I have seen it. Same with my son in law’s area in Louisiana.

To be honest, I am growing weary of judging the sport in inches. What if you have one good buck and the neighbor kills it opening day of bow season. As a pure horn hunter, are you going to sit at home, hoping for a new buck to pop up on camera, or hunt, knowing pretty well there is nothing there that meets your standards. We have killed one deer in the last 15 years we didnt have on camera. We dont hunt where I live and get surprised. Maybe we should quit the cameras.

My grandkids have shown me the light again. I used to get more excited killing a spike back in the 80’s than I do a 140 now. My 45 year old son said the same this weekend. I think we are going to proceed on with lower standards in the future. Back in 1985 - every deer was a potential target. You strained your eyes to make out our legal two inch spikes. You studied every doe, coming and going. Now, I can identify with the naked eye at 250 yards that 95% of the deer I see have no shooting potential. I dont even touch my weapon most of the time. It has become boring.

 

[Angus 1895]

It almost sounds like feral goat ranching to me .

in lieu of “ hunting ”.

iwould suggest a “ dink a thon”

the winner who harvested the smallest legal buck gets a brick of creedmore ammo!

 

[SwampCat]

Not being a smart azz or anything, but if you're a meat hunter primarily, whats wrong with shooting a doe or 7?

Our DNR gives us plenty of doe tags. If you wanna eat, kill all the does you want. Why shoot that buck that has something in 2 years that'd be a lot of fun to chase?

Dont assume everywhere has an abundance of does. Been to plenty of ground were does were scarce as hens teeth

 

[Baker]

As a pure horn hunter, are you going to sit at home, hoping for a new buck to pop up on camera, or hunt, knowing pretty well there is nothing there that meets your standards.

I kinda smile when I think about this. I haven't shot a deer going on 4 years. Yet I hunt practically every day from October thru the end of January. Heck I damn near 'hunt' every day of the year. Or scout. Or spend time in deer country. It's what I love. I take a video camera...very high quality, latest technology...and feel like Daniel Boone when I get quality video of a stud. There is not a deer on my farm I intend to shoot this year, But there are 3 big ones. Been out almost every day since October 1 and so far have video of one of them. Don't know what's at the ranch this year. I only ran 8 cameras for 4 days while dove hunting. Prefer the element of surprise down there. Heading down Thanksgiving and will be there more than not till mid February. Sincerely doubt I shoot anything. But no-one will have a better time! And with Grace I will guide some folks to lifetime memories. What a privilege.

 

[Tree Spud]

I thought this post was about technology in hunting? Lol

Most threads that get this long are like when we were in grade school. The teacher whispered a message in one kids ear. Then that message was then whispered to each kid and the last kid had to repeat what they heard.

Always funny to see how much the message changed.

 

[Foggy47]

Wow! 9 pages on deer ethics in 1.5 days. Is that a new record? lol

 

[Turkish]

Post 45 is windy gypsy joking about buying 20 acres?

But I get your point. I’m beyond fortunate but truthfully we all are. We get to hunt and most of us on our own slice of heaven. I also need to qualify, everything I have I worked for and I sacrificed. I wasn’t given anything. I made a lot of decisions personally and professionally that put me in my position. As we all have here im almost certain. So do I feel a bit cheated when I have so much invested and a neighbor rolls up Friday before the season and shoots a 2.5 year old Saturday am of gun season, yep I do. But all I can do is poke my lip out and hopefully make my property better so they don’t wander, which is a fools errand but I keep trying. My investments don’t entitle me to crap! In my perfect world I wish I could just get through to at least my neighbors that everyone’s experience would be exponentially better if we worked toward a balanced herd and a higher age class if buck.

This thread went in another direction from the intent, and that’s all good. Personally I’m a bit concerned where all this headed.

In all seriousness, congratulations for what you’ve achieved! I certainly didn’t intend to question whether you’ve earned it.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

In all seriousness, congratulations for what you’ve achieved! I certainly didn’t intend to question whether you’ve earned it.

I absolutely didn’t take it in that way! I appreciate it

 

[FarmerDan]

I'm exhausted. I'm laughing. I am crying. I am fascinated and dejected. There are 9 pages of opinion, rants, and a fact here and there. For a minute I thought my first wife had come back disguised as a deer hunter.

 

[BenAllgood]

I'm exhausted. I'm laughing. I am crying. I am fascinated and dejected. There are 9 pages of opinion, rants, and a fact here and there. For a minute I thought my first wife had come back disguised as a deer hunter.

At least it was finally settled that cages are more ethical than tubes.

 

[sandbur]

I read this discussion of QDM and choosing which buck to kill. So many are lucky to have a choice. The choice is yours if it is legal.

I know many hunters in northern Minnesota who struggled to see a legal target buck this year. One guy hunted all season on private land and saw one fawn.

In a different zone, other hunters have more time, but deer numbers are very low. I suspect most just want some venison for the table.

Be glad you have a choice of legal bucks.

I hunted too many years in the north where we struggled to see a buck. Often we had no doe tags.

 

[roymunson]

I read this discussion of QDM and choosing which buck to kill. So many are lucky to have a choice. The choice is yours if it is legal.

I know many hunters in northern Minnesota who struggled to see a legal target buck this year. One guy hunted all season on private land and saw one fawn.

In a different zone, other hunters have more time, but deer numbers are very low. I suspect most just want some venison for the table.

Be glad you have a choice of legal bucks.

I hunted too many years in the north where we struggled to see a buck. Often we had no doe tags.

Understood. But just to be clear, it's all relative. If you make $200k a year living in West Virginia, you're in a different world than if you make $200k a year living in Silicon Valley.

We are the Silicon Valley side of the equation in terms of deer. Volume of bucks and does aren't an issue.

In the end, I digress. There's nothing illegal or immoral about what they're doing (other than arguably saying 20 tons of feed for deer on your 300 acres seems excessive). I see what potential could be had with a little discretion and have to realize many people don't have that ability, nor desire to challenge themselves. It's ok.

I'll continue to do what I can and try to overcome that anyways.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Understood. But just to be clear, it's all relative. If you make $200k a year living in West Virginia, you're in a different world than if you make $200k a year living in Silicon Valley.

We are the Silicon Valley side of the equation in terms of deer. Volume of bucks and does aren't an issue.

In the end, I digress. There's nothing illegal or immoral about what they're doing (other than arguably saying 20 tons of feed for deer on your 300 acres seems excessive). I see what potential could be had with a little discretion and have to realize many people don't have that ability, nor desire to challenge themselves. It's ok.

I'll continue to do what I can and try to overcome that anyways.

That’s another point. The midwest to big bucks is like Augusta National to golf. You don’t wear blue jeans to play Augusta. Don’t shoot a 2.5 year old in the Midwest. Realize how fortunate you are….These north woods guys are unfortunately playing a municipal golf course by comparison with all the antiquated forest and wildlife management forced on them.

I will disagree about certain things being unethical but ethics are define individually.

 

[homerj]

Don’t shoot a 2.5 year old in the Midwest.

What constitutes the Midwest?

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

What constitutes the Midwest?

I’d say- Iowa, Missouri, Illinois, Ohio, kentucky, Indiana, Southern Minnesota and souther Michigan. Hell throw in the Dakotas but those are different animals.

 

[Mortenson]

I think you're on the money. Participation trophies (1 and 2 YO bucks) for everyone!

Throw in CWD management practices where mature bucks are looked at as risky disease spreaders and it makes things even worse.

You brought up this point in post #3 of the thread. Is it junk science or sound science that an older age class is bad for cwd? I still think if you're not in a cwd zone then either your dnr hasn't chosen to discover it there yet or has chosen to not address it yet. Seasons and permits will largely always become more liberal in the name of stopping the spread. That was another IL pin we used to get - "Take a Doe so the Herd Won't Grow"

 

[Wind Gypsy]

You brought up this point in post #3 of the thread. Is it junk science or sound science that an older age class is bad for cwd? I still think if you're not in a cwd zone then either your dnr hasn't chosen to discover it there yet or has chosen to not address it yet. Seasons and permits will largely always become more liberal in the name of stopping the spread. That was another IL pin we used to get - "Take a Doe so the Herd Won't Grow"

In regards to age class, it seems like basic logic that a deer that's been around for 5 years is more likely to be infected with something than a deer that's been around for 1 year. There's always exceptions that pop up at times when we think items are simple but I wouldn't spend any time trying to dispute the older age class / higher infection correlation.

I'm of the mind that it's more because DNR doesn't require testing to occur in areas where there hasn't been prior positive tests in many states. But now people are more prone to test before eating in "non-CWD" areas even when not required to so that will result in more positive tests in these areas obviously.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I’d say- Iowa, Missouri, Illinois, Ohio, kentucky, Indiana, Southern Minnesota and souther Michigan. Hell throw in the Dakotas but those are different animals.

WI, Eastern KS and NE?

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

WI, Eastern KS and NE?

Yeah those too!

 

[Tree Spud]

What constitutes the Midwest?

I’d say- Iowa, Missouri, Illinois, Ohio, kentucky, Indiana, Southern Minnesota and souther Michigan. Hell throw in the Dakotas but those are different animals.

Allow me to add a little data and geographical perspective to help here. I'll try not to be offended that Wisconsin was ignored

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