Thoughts on culling bucks with poor genetic potential.

[Angus 1895]

Wha

I dont eat them. My wife was a high school science teacher for thirty years and she knows what diseases they carry.

What disease s are those?

 

[omicron1792]

Wha

What disease s are those?

https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ourfocus/wildlifedamage/operational-activities/feral-swine/feral-swine-damage/feral-swine-risks-pets-people#:~:text=Harmful%20organisms%20and%20pathogens%2C%20carried,coli.

 

[SwampCat]

Wha

What disease s are those?

Harmful organisms and pathogens, carried by feral swine, which can infect humans include diseases such as leptospirosis, toxoplasmosis, brucellosis, tularemia, trichinellosis, swine influenza, salmonella, hepatitis and pathogenic E. coli.

Guy down the road from me fed some wild hogs to his dogs and it killed two or three and made about three or four more sick.

To be honest, we ate them back when we were poor as dirt. I know a lot of folks that eat them. I give a few away - and never knew anyone who got sick from one. But - it is one of the few things my wife asks of me - so we dont eat them. I would doubt that 10% of feral hogs killed around here get eaten.

 

[omicron1792]

Some of the parasites work their way to the brain and cause these encapsulated masses. I’ve seen a few patients with it.

A Hunter in Florida Got a Rare Brain Infection From Feral Hogs

A man’s habit of hunting feral pigs exposed him to a rare brain infection, doctors in Florida say.

gizmodo.com

 

[Hoytvectrix]

This is one of the bucks I regret passing on the most. We had a few other larger antlered deer that year and I didn't want to burn my firearm tag on this buck because I am a greedy moron. We know he was 5.5 or older.

 

[Brian662]

This is one of the bucks I regret passing on the most. We had a few other larger antlered deer that year and I didn't want to burn my firearm tag on this buck because I am a greedy moron. We know he was 5.5 or older.

The diversity in that location is pretty sweet. If you/your crew created that, then hat's off to you.

 

[SwampCat]

This is one of the bucks I regret passing on the most. We had a few other larger antlered deer that year and I didn't want to burn my firearm tag on this buck because I am a greedy moron. We know he was 5.5 or older.

That is what granddaughters are for. Below is a 195 lb (big body for here), 5.5 yr old six pt. She was proud as heck of this deer.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

The diversity in that location is pretty sweet. If you/your crew created that, then hat's off to you.

Thanks, some of that is just normal succession, and some is what we have planted. It works best like in the video during the rut because bucks work perpendicular to the typical doe direction of travel.

 

[matinc]

Feral. You mentioned fawns and does. I want to reiterate shooting a doe FAWN is the best deer to remove from your herd. Not a matriarch doe. Her chances of raising twins with a higher male sex is better. When you see people shoot a big doe they are actually hurting their own herd with no knowledge of what is happening. They know better fawning habitat and how to keep the family together. I challenge the group to consider this. If you don't believe me read anything by John ozoga about it.

 

[matinc]

Swampcat that is amazing a 5.5 year old buck that should have horns that big by 3.5 and maybe 2.5 here in michigan. Your observations previously are spot on. Is that 195 dressed??

 

[Angus 1895]

This is one of the bucks I regret passing on the most. We had a few other larger antlered deer that year and I didn't want to burn my firearm tag on this buck because I am a greedy moron. We know he was 5.5 or older.

That’s a very nice healthy looking deer! Big too!

 

[Telemark]

The diversity in that location is pretty sweet. If you/your crew created that, then hat's off to you.

I totally agree. I'm trying to make some similar areas but without the oaks. Deer seem to love transition zones like that, and those areas let the dominant wind through better than timber.

 

[SwampCat]

Swampcat that is amazing a 5.5 year old buck that should have horns that big by 3.5 and maybe 2.5 here in michigan. Your observations previously are spot on. Is that 195 dressed??

No. 195 live weight - big deer for here. Wouldnt have weighed that much if it had not been on protein feed. Biggest deer I have ever weighed in 43 years of living here was a 6 yr old 225 live weight buck. Three more just over 200. I have weighed hundreds in the past working check stations when we used to have them. 135/140 lb live wt for the average 2.5 yr old buck here

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Feral. You mentioned fawns and does. I want to reiterate shooting a doe FAWN is the best deer to remove from your herd. Not a matriarch doe. Her chances of raising twins with a higher male sex is better. When you see people shoot a big doe they are actually hurting their own herd with no knowledge of what is happening. They know better fawning habitat and how to keep the family together. I challenge the group to consider this. If you don't believe me read anything by John ozoga about it.

I tend to agree to a point. If you believe your property is in better shape today than yesterday and will be in even better shape tomorrow, I would let my fawns survive at the expense of a mature doe. Epigenetic response manifests over time. Several generations, so a doe fawn today should, in theory, express better genetics/ health than a mature doe when it didn’t have the habitat advantage a fawn has and then the subsequent fawns behind that one even better. With that said, if you aren’t managing on scale of a decent size it’s probably pissing in the wind so I would defer to your theory.

 

[SwampCat]

Feral. You mentioned fawns and does. I want to reiterate shooting a doe FAWN is the best deer to remove from your herd. Not a matriarch doe. Her chances of raising twins with a higher male sex is better. When you see people shoot a big doe they are actually hurting their own herd with no knowledge of what is happening. They know better fawning habitat and how to keep the family together. I challenge the group to consider this. If you don't believe me read anything by John ozoga about it.

I agree with this - at least in my case where I am trying to increase fawn recruitment. If your deer density is excessive and reducing that density is your goal - of course you would want to kill the does that are the most successful fawn producers. Personally, I prefer to kill a 1.5 yr old doe - she most likely has not had a fawn and has a decent amount of meat. Kill them early season before they eat their share of food resources and before a buck wastes his energy breeding her.

We used to have a five day private land antlerless season in mid October. For some reason, our g&f moved it to end of Dec. I dont understand the management philosophy of removing a doe after she has been bred and after consuming several months worth of fall food right before going into the worst part of winter.

 

[matinc]

Swamp cat that is very intuitive. I see your point on the 1 5. However I ask myself how much really does a deer eat. Watch them in a field how much are they really eating . I will be curious what the forum says.

 

[SwampCat]

Swamp cat that is very intuitive. I see your point on the 1 5. However I ask myself how much really does a deer eat. Watch them in a field how much are they really eating . I will be curious what the forum says.

I know in years without a decent acorn crop, they eat 25 acres of wheat/clover to the dirt. To be honest, our southern deer are not going to die of starvation during the winter - our worst stress period is late summer as opposed to winter. However, even our southern deer respond to food resources - showing better health during good acorn years, higher weights, and better fawn recruitment - so premium food supply does manifest itself in healthier bucks, does, and fawns - which can pay dividends down the road. Then, add in the fact that with post rut doe harvests, your bucks waste their energy breeding a doe soon to be killed. Combine that with the potential loss of some of the best genetics when the bull of the woods could have bred a doe that could successfully produce the next bull of the woods - only for her to be turned into hamburger 45 days after breeding.

 

[omicron1792]

I know in years without a decent acorn crop, they eat 25 acres of wheat/clover to the dirt. To be honest, our southern deer are not going to die of starvation during the winter - our worst stress period is late summer as opposed to winter. However, even our southern deer respond to food resources - showing better health during good acorn years, higher weights, and better fawn recruitment - so premium food supply does manifest itself in healthier bucks, does, and fawns - which can pay dividends down the road. Then, add in the fact that with post rut doe harvests, your bucks waste their energy breeding a doe soon to be killed. Combine that with the potential loss of some of the best genetics when the bull of the woods could have bred a doe that could successfully produce the next bull of the woods - only for her to be turned into hamburger 45 days after breeding.

Kind of interesting. It seems that all the answers to not culling a genetically weaker young buck applies in the positive to harvesting does late in the season. All the answers that “make sense” make no impact due to the scientists.

Ask Wired To Hunt: Should You Shoot Does After the Rut?

Should you shoot does after the rut? It’s a question I see debated on social media regularly this time of year and it’s something I’ve pondered myself. Having thoroughly examined the pros and cons, as well as my own specific circumstances, I’ve always answered with a definitive yes. If the doe...

www.themeateater.com

 

[omicron1792]

I know in years without a decent acorn crop, they eat 25 acres of wheat/clover to the dirt. To be honest, our southern deer are not going to die of starvation during the winter - our worst stress period is late summer as opposed to winter. However, even our southern deer respond to food resources - showing better health during good acorn years, higher weights, and better fawn recruitment - so premium food supply does manifest itself in healthier bucks, does, and fawns - which can pay dividends down the road. Then, add in the fact that with post rut doe harvests, your bucks waste their energy breeding a doe soon to be killed. Combine that with the potential loss of some of the best genetics when the bull of the woods could have bred a doe that could successfully produce the next bull of the woods - only for her to be turned into hamburger 45 days after breeding.

Specifically this part. If culling weaker genetic bucks makes no difference (remember we can’t affect free range genetics according to this thread) then when you kill a doe has no effect on genetics either.

I’m not calling you out at all. Just interesting my man.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Swamp cat that is very intuitive. I see your point on the 1 5. However I ask myself how much really does a deer eat. Watch them in a field how much are they really eating . I will be curious what the forum says.

6-8 # of food per day per deer