This will also ruffle some feathers, but a lot of people buy a piece of ground, plant some food plots, and they feel that they are entitled to the deer that roam their parts since they paid the money, and put some work into the habitat. It simply doesn't work that way unless you own a boatload of ground or put up a fence which is more like hunting livestock than putting out bait.
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Baiting dilemma
- Thread starter Howboutthemdawgs
- Start date
Bucks can range over 7000 acres. While corn can certainly be a draw, it's not all they eat. This is just one of those things you can't control. If they survive the corn-hole, their gonna be looking for other stuff as well. I hated that they made baiting legal in Northern Georgia last year because of the reasons you mention. So this year, I plan on "out corning" my neighbors to go with what I hope to be nice plots and habitat. If it makes you feel better, pile up some corn in your plots and hunt the trails going to those plots. I literally have thought about loading the spreader with corn and adding some "sugar" to my plots.
j-bird
Moderator
All I know is that regardless of how much property you have....you still have neighbors and they are going to kill "your deer" and such things are beyond your control. I kill my neighbors deer and he kills mine...it's how it works. Turns out is isn't "mine" until I put a tag on it anyway (it's property of the state at least here). This happens even when there is no plots or bait piles involved. For one reason or another that deer is going to leave your wonderful property and get killed by some lucky slob. It happens all the time. Sometimes....I'm the lucky slob!
Native Hunter
5 year old buck +
In my way of thinking there is an easy answer for the OP. Let's look at what has been established:
1. He despises corn piles and feeders. Therefore, even if he feels it is effective, he should't do it.
2. He is okay with food plots and is already planting them.
3. The one thing that he and everyone else agrees with in this thread is that corn is a powerful draw. Therefore, he should probably have some corn.
4. The logical thing to do is for him to plant corn in his food plots. That way he will be countering the draw from the neighbors with corn in a way that he approves of.
5. He can decide whether or not to hunt over the corn. It doesn't matter whether he does or not, because the objective is to be drawing deer to his land rather than them being drawn to the neighbors. He has the best possible scenario without compromising his beliefs.
PS: You will notice how much disagreement there was on this thread about daylight use, and some guys proved with pictures that they have daylight use. This illustrates how different deer can be at various locations, depending mostly on pressure.
Even though I know that deer will come to corn, I will take the habitat I've built over corn all day long. I can tell you that by the third day of gun season here, I would much rather be hunting a travel way in thick cover than I would a corn pile. By that time, the old guys have it all figured out.
1. He despises corn piles and feeders. Therefore, even if he feels it is effective, he should't do it.
2. He is okay with food plots and is already planting them.
3. The one thing that he and everyone else agrees with in this thread is that corn is a powerful draw. Therefore, he should probably have some corn.
4. The logical thing to do is for him to plant corn in his food plots. That way he will be countering the draw from the neighbors with corn in a way that he approves of.
5. He can decide whether or not to hunt over the corn. It doesn't matter whether he does or not, because the objective is to be drawing deer to his land rather than them being drawn to the neighbors. He has the best possible scenario without compromising his beliefs.
PS: You will notice how much disagreement there was on this thread about daylight use, and some guys proved with pictures that they have daylight use. This illustrates how different deer can be at various locations, depending mostly on pressure.
Even though I know that deer will come to corn, I will take the habitat I've built over corn all day long. I can tell you that by the third day of gun season here, I would much rather be hunting a travel way in thick cover than I would a corn pile. By that time, the old guys have it all figured out.
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H20fwler
5 year old buck +
I plant all kinds of habitat trees/shrubs/food plots for all wildlife and I run feeders and mineral sites year round.
I also get pics of mature deer at feeders in daylight but once gun season starts deer don't come back to feeders in daylight until January or when there is a severe weather drop.
I'm like others here have said, doesn't make me any difference how anyone hunts or with what as long as its legal.
I also get pics of mature deer at feeders in daylight but once gun season starts deer don't come back to feeders in daylight until January or when there is a severe weather drop.
I'm like others here have said, doesn't make me any difference how anyone hunts or with what as long as its legal.
Howboutthemdawgs
5 year old buck +
Thank you for the response, I definitely value your opinion and best I can tell we are relatively close to each geographically so that carries weight as well. This is strictly a personal feeling and by no means do I have any illusions or motive of changing anyone who does things differently. I would have no problem hunting over corn that I grew. I think for me (just my opinion!) the line of delineation is at the effort. Growing corn is not easy relatively speaking. Throwing corn out from the store is.
I don’t necessarily take the killing of something, especially something as rare and majestic as a big buck lightly. So it matters to me how it happens. Call me stupid or romantic or crazy but that is value that I established through years of chasing and being humbled by mature whitetails. I have too much respect for them to want to pursue them any other way than on their terms and as wild as possible.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
It is not the bait...It is the hunter...This is the difference between correlation and causal relationships. It is really not that much more effective as an attractant. For example, compare a field of corn to a bait pile. The bait pile offers high quality food with a high risk during hunting season. A field of corn offers the same high quality food along with great cover. I've seen deer drives through standing corn where deer never leave the corn field they simple evade the drivers.
Keep in mind a lot happened over those 30 years. It reminds me of the mineral debate. Guys start using mineral licks and testify to how effective they are at growing big antlers. They forget that they have been making quality food and habitat improvements and more importantly letting young bucks walk over the preceding 10 years.
When you see A and B happen together, one can't conclude that A causes B or B causes A. In order to establish a causal relationship, one needs to account for all other influences.
I don't doubt your observations one bit, just the conclusion. How has hunting pressure changed over that period relative to deer populations? How have predator numbers changed over that period. How about habitat changes? How about changes in lang use. There are lots of variables. Have forests matured during that period? Have there been other changes to food sources?
Don't get me wrong, I don't bait and I don't advocate for it. It certainly my be that baiting may be a contributor along with other factors and as you say, everything seems to be location specific.
Thanks,
Jack
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Telemark
5 year old buck +
Food plots/fruit trees are ethically the same as a bait pile.
If I plant an apple tree, then pick the apples and move them some distance and place them in a pile, there is no ethical difference between hunting over the apple tree or hunting over the apple pile. It is also equally ethical if I buy the apples instead of growing them myself.
The same applies to corn. If I grow the corn or buy the corn, it doesn't make a difference ethically.
It is certainly more rewarding to grow deer food yourself, but it is not more ethical. Pride and satisfaction for a job well done do not affect the ethics of killing animals.
The bottom line is this: we are out to kill these animals. The ethics of hunting deer apply to why we kill them, how we kill them, and what we do with them once we've killed them. Do you kill deer humanely for food? If so, you are probably an ethical hunter. If you take reckless shots at deer or let the meat go to waste, you are probably not an ethical hunter.
People have been utilizing every technique possible to get an advantage over their prey since people started hunting.
The ethical question in this post seems to be more about neighbors having advantages over each other rather than hunters having advantages over deer.
If I plant an apple tree, then pick the apples and move them some distance and place them in a pile, there is no ethical difference between hunting over the apple tree or hunting over the apple pile. It is also equally ethical if I buy the apples instead of growing them myself.
The same applies to corn. If I grow the corn or buy the corn, it doesn't make a difference ethically.
It is certainly more rewarding to grow deer food yourself, but it is not more ethical. Pride and satisfaction for a job well done do not affect the ethics of killing animals.
The bottom line is this: we are out to kill these animals. The ethics of hunting deer apply to why we kill them, how we kill them, and what we do with them once we've killed them. Do you kill deer humanely for food? If so, you are probably an ethical hunter. If you take reckless shots at deer or let the meat go to waste, you are probably not an ethical hunter.
People have been utilizing every technique possible to get an advantage over their prey since people started hunting.
The ethical question in this post seems to be more about neighbors having advantages over each other rather than hunters having advantages over deer.
Howboutthemdawgs
5 year old buck +
I somewhat disagree. Those are your ethics not mine. That’s why I was clear to establish that these are my personal beliefs and not a blanket statement accepted by all hunters. I don’t believe it is ethical to take a pile of apples and move the a quarter mile in front of a stand and say that’s as ethical as planting, caring, and waiting for an apple tree to drop its apples which it may or may not do given the conditions, but you’re not wrong if you disagree. Ethics are individual.
People have been utilizing techniques to make hunting more effective for years, I absolutely agree. With that in mind we have become so efficient at tipping the odds in our favor that it’s getting a little silly. 700 yard shots with rifle, 250 yards with muzzleloaders that get their own special season, 60-70 yard shot with bows, same with new turkey loads. At some point we might as well fly drones and drop bombs on them. What’s the end game? Make it so easy the result isn’t in question or try to match wits with something that has a better than sporting chance to beat you. Not for me to decide for anyone but myself I suppose.
I have mentally fought the same thing you are fighting, for years. Our g&f allows baiting because they wanted more deer killed - they know it makes it easier to kill deer. Baiting allows those guys who have a pine thicket lease with not one single hardwood a good opportunity to kill deer. It allows my neighbors who own 20 acres with not one feature attractive to a deer - the opportunity to harvest some venison. By spreading the hunting pressure across some of these less than desirable acres, it keeps everyone hunting from traveling to the areas with good deer habitat. I, too, define the difference between baiting and food plotting as the amount of effort and also the knowledge required to successfully plant and maintain plots. The fact that various agencies allow baiting tells me they think it is necessary to keep the deer herds in check. One would hope if the deer herds declined enough, they would once again make baiting illegal. I have struggled mightily with the ethics part of it - but lately, watching the fruits of my hard labor plucked by folks who contributed nothing - it has really rubbed me the wrong way. And I would say this about providing feeders in areas that you dont hunt in hopes of keeping bucks on your place - that does not work at my place. For years I have had feeders solely for the purpose of hog reduction. We never hunted them unless cameras showed hogs were using them. That did not keep the bucks from going to my neighbor’s bait pile.
S.T.Fanatic
5 year old buck +
Plant corn plots and roll them down or bush hog them. Deer will chose the corn on the ground over the standing corn almost every time.
AND/OR:
Arrange your sanctuaries/bedding ares in the center or your property and hunt the trails leading to your neighbors bait stations. It shouldn't be hard to find the trails.
AND/OR:
Arrange your sanctuaries/bedding ares in the center or your property and hunt the trails leading to your neighbors bait stations. It shouldn't be hard to find the trails.
Mortenson
5 year old buck +
I've been told by one guy they prefer soybeans on the ground too, as opposed to standing, which does make sense, but every video I've ever seen of the pros it seems the soybeans are always left standing when they hunt over them. Would you bush hog beans too?
S.T.Fanatic
5 year old buck +
I wouldn't brush hog the beans. If hunting over the plot you can easily shoot a deer standing in the center of the beans. The same can not be said for a corn plot left standing. If your hunting over the corn plot just brush hog enough of it in front of your stand so you can see the deer and only enough to last through the hunting season. For the remainder of the year I would want the corn standing. (we get several feet of snow each year)
To add to the discussion of soybeans left standing there will be a good amount of the pods that "shatter" anyway putting the beans on the ground.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Not even close in my book....but ethical choices can vary between folks of good conscience. To my way of thinking, one is manipulating habitat to benefit the needs of deer 24/7/365. Given the habitat, manipulated by me, other, or not at all, hunting is then selecting the place when I believe I'm most likely to be successful, whether that is over the food source, or in bedding cover or somewhere between.
Baiting is providing a temporary food source, not to benefit deer, but specifically to attract them to a stand location to shoot them.
They are quite different in my book but perhaps not yours, and that is just fine.
Thanks,
Jack
Mortenson
5 year old buck +
Yeah that makes sense. This guy's case was anecdotal, but he said where he tried combining short beans that didn't want to feed into the head, rather just pushed over, as short beans tend to do, the deer almost exclusively wanted to feed there instead of what was still standing. I think he got rained out or something for an extended period and was able to hunt there quite a bit. So he was able to observe the deer coming out many times and choosing the harvested (yet mostly just pushed down) sections over the taller beans he hadn't yet got to. Who knows. Might be worthy of a small experiment too.
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
It could be argued that an apple tree that drops for a total 2 or 3 weeks a year is much less beneficial to a deer herd than someone putting out a regular supply of feed from a bag for the entire winter or season. Plus, once a tree is planted it's pretty darn easy to care for long term... much easier than repeated trips to town and hauling feed around week after week, year end and year out. Sure is a lot of differences in opinions and personal ethics on this subject.
Let me ask you guys this; where does a decoy fit into the baiting scene? My easiest, most dependable, and most reliable way to shoot a mature buck has been to hunt with a decoy in the right spot at the right time of year. It does nothing to benefit the herd and is way more reliable than dumping a pile of corn. Is it baiting?
Let me ask you guys this; where does a decoy fit into the baiting scene? My easiest, most dependable, and most reliable way to shoot a mature buck has been to hunt with a decoy in the right spot at the right time of year. It does nothing to benefit the herd and is way more reliable than dumping a pile of corn. Is it baiting?
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
What about bailing those crops? Swathing and bailing corn would probably scatter corn all over the place and is a normal farming practice.
Don't know. I'd imagine it would come down to a CO's interpretation of the law
S.T.Fanatic
5 year old buck +
If you ever have watched a hunting show on tv where they are hunting over a freshly harvested corn field that is exactly what they are doing. They run the combine through the field and blow the kernels right on the ground along with the cobs and stalks. I was told this by a guy who formerly managed property for a big name tv hunting host.
They planted a "cover crop" of corn to increase biomass and organic matter for soil building.
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