Trump tax plan and itemizing deductions

[Bowsnbucks]

I agree with Bill that the jury is still out on what the positives will be. The notion that good-paying jobs will be created and that a wave of companies will suddenly move back to the U.S. seems pretty
" Alice in Wonderland " to me. There is no obligation for any company to do either. If the premise is that any company is going to create good-paying jobs for Americans ............ if anyone believes that ............ then why did they all run offshore in the first place ??? Logically it makes no sense to propose both of those ideas. It's a painful thing to have to admit that companies just want the cheapest labor in the world. New factories that are built anywhere are loaded with automation and jobs that were held by people are not going to be there. Even warehouses are requiring only a few people in them anymore because of automation - I know because I've worked on several of 750,000 sq. ft. and more. So where is this sudden altruistic, high-paying job thrust going to land ??? Make no mistake - I hope to God it happens, but I'm not holding my breath. I'm at the end of my career, but I sure as hell worry about my sons' and any grandchildren's future.

As to Buffet's political contributions .............. loads of Republicans have given to Dems' campaigns over the years. That's public info. I think it's called " covering the bases ". It doesn't make those Republicans into Dems. And vice/versa. Maybe Buffet and Bogle want to see the whole economy do well, and not just a small percentage of the population. They don't ever speak of " hand-outs ", just fairness across the board.

For the record ............ I'm not in favor of hand-outs either. But I don't condone having the game-board and rules stacked in favor of a small percentage of the population either. I can - and have - done quite well with a fair playing field. That field is increasingly slanted to favor a few. I'd like to see anyone who's willing to study, work hard ( not to the point of nothing else in their lives ), not cheat the system, and invest for their retirement / kids' college - be able to do it without having to swim up Niagara falls. This would include all such people - not just company owners and executives. There are plenty of good, honest, hard-working folks out there who will NEVER arrive at any sort of financial security level. The notion that everyone must save " enough " for their retirement makes one GIANT ASSUMPTION ........... that they make enough to be ABLE to save.

People can't re-educate themselves and keep changing careers as fast as the Washington folks can swipe a pen. Economic picture changes too fast for people to keep up.

 

[swat1018]

I agree with Bill that the jury is still out on what the positives will be. The notion that good-paying jobs will be created and that a wave of companies will suddenly move back to the U.S. seems pretty
" Alice in Wonderland " to me. There is no obligation for any company to do either. If the premise is that any company is going to create good-paying jobs for Americans ............ if anyone believes that ............ then why did they all run offshore in the first place ??? Logically it makes no sense to propose both of those ideas. It's a painful thing to have to admit that companies just want the cheapest labor in the world. New factories that are built anywhere are loaded with automation and jobs that were held by people are not going to be there. Even warehouses are requiring only a few people in them anymore because of automation - I know because I've worked on several of 750,000 sq. ft. and more. So where is this sudden altruistic, high-paying job thrust going to land ??? Make no mistake - I hope to God it happens, but I'm not holding my breath. I'm at the end of my career, but I sure as hell worry about my sons' and any grandchildren's future.

As to Buffet's political contributions .............. loads of Republicans have given to Dems' campaigns over the years. That's public info. I think it's called " covering the bases ". It doesn't make those Republicans into Dems. And vice/versa. Maybe Buffet and Bogle want to see the whole economy do well, and not just a small percentage of the population. They don't ever speak of " hand-outs ", just fairness across the board.

For the record ............ I'm not in favor of hand-outs either. But I don't condone having the game-board and rules stacked in favor of a small percentage of the population either. I can - and have - done quite well with a fair playing field. That field is increasingly slanted to favor a few. I'd like to see anyone who's willing to study, work hard ( not to the point of nothing else in their lives ), not cheat the system, and invest for their retirement / kids' college - be able to do it without having to swim up Niagara falls. This would include all such people - not just company owners and executives. There are plenty of good, honest, hard-working folks out there who will NEVER arrive at any sort of financial security level. The notion that everyone must save " enough " for their retirement makes one GIANT ASSUMPTION ........... that they make enough to be ABLE to save.

People can't re-educate themselves and keep changing careers as fast as the Washington folks can swipe a pen. Economic picture changes too fast for people to keep up.

If we've had a "fair playing field," I've missed it! My wife and I both went to college and have good jobs. We pay lots of taxes! I know a girl who works part time, because between that and her "tax refund," she doesn't need to work more. She told me she made $13K last year at Olive Garden, but got a $9K "tax refund." They have offered her management jobs, but she doesn't see the upside. Business just didn't run off to Mexico and beyond for no reason, they were run off by big Government and unfair taxation and regulation -- with a little help from the labor unions.

 

[SD51555]

There's no way these tax cuts aren't extended before they expire. The only reason they ever pull the stunt of sunsetting them is to head off the CBO and their horrendous failure to comprehend fiscal stimulus. I can't imagine going backwards from here. "We're going to raise rates and cut back standards deductions for everyone, but if you throw your money away on high taxes and mortgage interest, you'll be ok. Further, our jobs creation plan is to drive up the corporate tax rate 75%, thus making the move overseas extremely attractive."

As far as Buffet goes, his life's mission has been to make money. One necessary evil of his line of work is that you have to genuflect at the alter of liberalism with both word and campaign contribution to inoculate yourself from attacks of the left.

CBS This Morning just did a story about 3 very different tax returns from parts around the country and fell face first into the discovery that all three will have lower tax bills. A single mom in North Carolina on welfare, a loaded couple with kids and small biz in California, and a married couple, both professors, no kids making $150k in Rhode Island. All will get a tax cut. The numbers are moving around, but the rate reductions cover the closing of special interest loopholes that were there before.

https://twitter.com/SenateGOP/status/944278505805811713

 

[Maddog3355]

I still think it will boost the economy and create jobs.

If Trump gets elected for a second term I will be retiring early as good as my 401K is doing.

Yes same with me, if it does as good the next 3 years as it did this year, the stock market will make a lot of people money.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

One thing, Maddog, ^^^ The market can crash as quick as we can blink our eyes. Any financial expert ( bona fide one ) will tell you the market valuations are speculation - nothing more. If for any reason, folks get nervous, they can start to pull money out and it can nosedive quickly. Anybody remember the tech / real estate bubble ?? I don't want to see a market dive, but it can happen in a big hurry. Intrinsic value is not the same as market value. Look them up.

SD51555 - You're quoting from TWITTER ?? Seriously ?? Twitter and Facebook are farts in the wind.

Swat1018 - Business ran offshore because of quickly signed " free trade " agreements to loads of countries that made it easy for businesses to get poverty-level wages and an extremely cheap labor force. ( Check the facts and see who signed the most " free trade " agreements. ) Unless every one of you thinks your kids are going to be top-level executives, or the owner of a sweatshop in China, maybe you ought to think about where our kids & grandkids are going to work. If the answer is to slash the wages here, ( since all American workers are rolling in luxury ), how does the economy stay afloat as every price and cost go nowhere but up ?? State and local taxes are already on the rise to make up for Fed cuts ( see Kansas, and it's hitting here and other states as well ). How do we fund ( and who pays what ) the HUGE need for infrastructure maintenance and replacement ?? THAT can has been kicked down the road for way too long by both parties. Is the answer to cut everyone's taxes to 10% so we can all say " Look - I have more money !! " How does the society stay afloat ?? Government regulations are all painted with the same brush. They're ALL bad. Right ?? What happens when a chemical leak happens to poison drinking water ?? ( like in W. Virginia ) Are you going to empty your pockets to fund the clean-up ?? Or should the company that caused the leak pay for it all ?? What about all the natural gas explosions happening all around the country from ancient underground pipes ?? If it happened in your community, would you rather have all the folks in your local community come up with $10,000 - $20,000 or more per household to repair/replace that line ??

What about the new fiduciary rule that John Bogle has been screaming for ( for years )?? That's another regulation. What it does is to force any financial professional make investment decisions for you that are for YOUR BENEFIT - not the decision that will pay him/her the highest commission or fee. That's the way it has been - with wording that states it ought to be a " somewhat suitable " investment. That's a gray definition for sure. The new fiduciary rule that went into effect ( for everyone's benefit ) is on the chopping block from Trump, Steve Manuchin, and one other appointed guy ( name escapes me right now ). It's a protection for ALL of us - R, D, I, and all - and our retirement / college money. Do you think it should be repealed ??

Let's get rid of all regulations. Let businesses run wild. Chemical leaks, spills, explosions, workplace accidents/fatalities, air and water pollution, ( who needs the EPA ?? ) roads & bridges falling apart ( Minn. bridge collapse ). Haven't we seen in the past what LACK of regulation spawns ?? And since the cable, electric utilities, and phone companies have been de-regulated, we all see the promised rate reductions and improved service from competition, don't we ??? Get real.

I'm a centrist, really - both sides have their good points. AND BAD ONES. I'm for common sense solutions, but a lightning-paced piece of legislation by either side just to say they did SOMETHING - ( for political expediency and "glory" ) doesn't necessarily create a panacea for all of our society. The problems are too varied and complicated to be back-slapping themselves ( either side ) over something as short-sighted as some of these pieces-of-crap legislation have been. ( As an example: Why are so many folks afraid of / against greener energy sources ?? How many new, higher-tech, better-paying jobs could be had if the nation went more in that direction ?? { it is to some degree } Wouldn't it let more oil & gas for fuel in the event we had to go to an all-out war ?? ) Just a thought.

I don't see our country getting better for our kids / grandkids if the pissing matches don't stop in D.C. And working together doesn't mean - " You guys have to cave in to what our side wants ". We ALL lose that way. I think we all better start thinking about our country as a whole and it's future. I don't see huge tax breaks for billionaires as the answer. Haven't we seen this picture before ?? Trickle down economics was supposed to create loads of jobs under several past administrations. What actually happened ?? Loads of jobs went overseas. ACTUALLY. Gotta be a better path than the one we've been on, gentlemen. Here's to hope.

 

[SD51555]

It's the actual video from CBS This Morning. Click on it.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I did. It's good to see that some of the folks will get a reduction. I'll still wait to see if it all results in more high-paying jobs though. Can't quite understand how the R's who always worry about deficits ( except Cheney who said on TV that deficits don't matter ), can square this tax plan with reducing the deficit. I think that argument is null and void from here on.

Incidentally, my wife and I will see a tax reduction too, and will have other favorable treatment on long-term capital gains. But not being a " hooray for me and screw anybody else " guy, I still don't see this as the be-all & end-all for our job and economic future. Based on past history of the biggest tax cuts for the wealthiest and corporations, it hasn't worked. Time will tell. And if it doesn't work - will anyone have the spine to admit it ??

 

[swat1018]

I did. It's good to see that some of the folks will get a reduction. I'll still wait to see if it all results in more high-paying jobs though. Can't quite understand how the R's who always worry about deficits ( except Cheney who said on TV that deficits don't matter ), can square this tax plan with reducing the deficit. I think that argument is null and void from here on.

Incidentally, my wife and I will see a tax reduction too, and will have other favorable treatment on long-term capital gains. But not being a " hooray for me and screw anybody else " guy, I still don't see this as the be-all & end-all for our job and economic future. Based on past history of the biggest tax cuts for the wealthiest and corporations, it hasn't worked. Time will tell. And if it doesn't work - will anyone have the spine to admit it ??

Do you remember the Ronald Reagan tax cuts?

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Swat - Oh yeah. And I watched his speech on TV where he said ; " We're going to change our economy from a manufacturing-based economy to a service-based economy. " Thus began the big flight out of the U.S. for American manufacturing.

When I see deer tracks in the snow and someone tries to tell me they're dog tracks ..............

 

[hilltopper]

My son, who works in "consulting," thinks one of the unintended consequences will be the acceleration of automation. With new expensing rules, and a higher return on investment, companies can pull the trigger on automation without worrying about short-term earnings declines during the transition.

 

[sandbur]

I heard this bill is 1000 pages. Do you think anyone understands it completely? I predict it will be a major stimulus for business.... for lawyers!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TMIL]

Sandbur is right, no one knows. Its just that nowadays many have an agenda they feel they must push.

 

[willy]

Bowsbucks,

Just for the record, Warren Buffet introduced both Obama (once)and Hillary(twice) when they came to the city Warren is from(Omaha, NE) in the past 3 years. A Republican he is not. Shrewd business man he is as well as democrat.

I with you though, hoping the tax bill is positive for this country.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Willy - I only know what he claims to be. If he's a liar - I can't say. By your thought process, if any Democrat introduces a Republican at a public function - is the Democrat actually a Republican ??

What I do know is this - the man knows money and economics. If he and John Bogle ( self- tagged Republicans ) both think this tax bill favors the richest too much, I'll believe them more than a TV talking head or an armchair political hack. Bogle has said in written articles that our economic system is " rigged " ( his words ) to favor corporate executives. Maybe those of you with vastly sharper intellects than Buffet & Bogle can write articles that prove them wrong. Bogle is a Princeton business grad, so you know he's stupid ......... right ??

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I know that the business that I work for will have an extra 200-300K in the checkbook at the end of the year for doing nothing different than in the past. I know that this money will be invested back into the business and given back in profit sharing. Not all corproratons are bad. I've never paid a nickel for health insurance, get a bonus every year, our profit sharing does very well, my family of 6 is being sent on vacation with most of the expenses being paid by the company. I just don't see how it will be getting any worse in the near future.

 

[willy]

Bow, can you post a link that show's where he states/claims he is a republican. Also can you show me a major political player that is one party but continually intros and sides with the other party. I don't see it happening. Here are just a few links that support he is a democrat. There's lot more if you care to search.

https://hollowverse.com/warren-buffett/

http://fortune.com/2016/08/04/hillary-clinton-billionaire-backers/

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/06/business/dealbook/warren-buffett-berkshire-health-care.html

Like I said he is a shrewd businessman.

 

[TMIL]

Warren Buffet is a political whorehound.

 

[landlord]

One thing, Maddog, ^^^ The market can crash as quick as we can blink our eyes. Any financial expert ( bona fide one ) will tell you the market valuations are speculation - nothing more. If for any reason, folks get nervous, they can start to pull money out and it can nosedive quickly. Anybody remember the tech / real estate bubble ?? I don't want to see a market dive, but it can happen in a big hurry. Intrinsic value is not the same as market value. Look them up.

SD51555 - You're quoting from TWITTER ?? Seriously ?? Twitter and Facebook are farts in the wind.

Swat1018 - Business ran offshore because of quickly signed " free trade " agreements to loads of countries that made it easy for businesses to get poverty-level wages and an extremely cheap labor force. ( Check the facts and see who signed the most " free trade " agreements. ) Unless every one of you thinks your kids are going to be top-level executives, or the owner of a sweatshop in China, maybe you ought to think about where our kids & grandkids are going to work. If the answer is to slash the wages here, ( since all American workers are rolling in luxury ), how does the economy stay afloat as every price and cost go nowhere but up ?? State and local taxes are already on the rise to make up for Fed cuts ( see Kansas, and it's hitting here and other states as well ). How do we fund ( and who pays what ) the HUGE need for infrastructure maintenance and replacement ?? THAT can has been kicked down the road for way too long by both parties. Is the answer to cut everyone's taxes to 10% so we can all say " Look - I have more money !! " How does the society stay afloat ?? Government regulations are all painted with the same brush. They're ALL bad. Right ?? What happens when a chemical leak happens to poison drinking water ?? ( like in W. Virginia ) Are you going to empty your pockets to fund the clean-up ?? Or should the company that caused the leak pay for it all ?? What about all the natural gas explosions happening all around the country from ancient underground pipes ?? If it happened in your community, would you rather have all the folks in your local community come up with $10,000 - $20,000 or more per household to repair/replace that line ??

What about the new fiduciary rule that John Bogle has been screaming for ( for years )?? That's another regulation. What it does is to force any financial professional make investment decisions for you that are for YOUR BENEFIT - not the decision that will pay him/her the highest commission or fee. That's the way it has been - with wording that states it ought to be a " somewhat suitable " investment. That's a gray definition for sure. The new fiduciary rule that went into effect ( for everyone's benefit ) is on the chopping block from Trump, Steve Manuchin, and one other appointed guy ( name escapes me right now ). It's a protection for ALL of us - R, D, I, and all - and our retirement / college money. Do you think it should be repealed ??

Let's get rid of all regulations. Let businesses run wild. Chemical leaks, spills, explosions, workplace accidents/fatalities, air and water pollution, ( who needs the EPA ?? ) roads & bridges falling apart ( Minn. bridge collapse ). Haven't we seen in the past what LACK of regulation spawns ?? And since the cable, electric utilities, and phone companies have been de-regulated, we all see the promised rate reductions and improved service from competition, don't we ??? Get real.

I'm a centrist, really - both sides have their good points. AND BAD ONES. I'm for common sense solutions, but a lightning-paced piece of legislation by either side just to say they did SOMETHING - ( for political expediency and "glory" ) doesn't necessarily create a panacea for all of our society. The problems are too varied and complicated to be back-slapping themselves ( either side ) over something as short-sighted as some of these pieces-of-crap legislation have been. ( As an example: Why are so many folks afraid of / against greener energy sources ?? How many new, higher-tech, better-paying jobs could be had if the nation went more in that direction ?? { it is to some degree } Wouldn't it let more oil & gas for fuel in the event we had to go to an all-out war ?? ) Just a thought.

I don't see our country getting better for our kids / grandkids if the pissing matches don't stop in D.C. And working together doesn't mean - " You guys have to cave in to what our side wants ". We ALL lose that way. I think we all better start thinking about our country as a whole and it's future. I don't see huge tax breaks for billionaires as the answer. Haven't we seen this picture before ?? Trickle down economics was supposed to create loads of jobs under several past administrations. What actually happened ?? Loads of jobs went overseas. ACTUALLY. Gotta be a better path than the one we've been on, gentlemen. Here's to hope.

We have seen what OVERREGULATION spawns... It forces banks to change their rules so that unqualified borrowers are suddenly qualified. They cannot just change the rules for minorities, so you get the housing bubble due to overregulation. Then when the unqualified don't pay the bubble pops. The banks just bundled that bad debt and sold it because they knew it was bad. Gov'ts bought it trying to make an easy profit until default and they complained they were take advantage of instead of taking responsibility for their own stupidity.
The lowest bracket went from 15% to 12%, that is a 20% reduction. The top bracket went from 39.6% to 37% about a 6.5% cut.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

landlord - Nobody forced the banks to write loans to less-than-qualified borrowers, and no " regulation " forced them to either. The regulations were applied AFTER the real estate bubble burst. The banks bundled the mortgages together and sold them like they were regular securities ( stocks ). The banks saw a quick way to make money by doing that. If they realized the loans were bad, the BANKS should have done more homework before they lent the money to folks who couldn't pay. ( who by the way weren't all minorities either ). Nobody held a gun to the bankers' heads and made them write / lend all those mortgages. The regulations were established to prevent it from happening again. And the bailout was started by George Bush before he left office. Check your facts. Not " alternative facts. " ( Too big to fail )

Willy - I saw him ( Buffet ) say it on TV in some interviews. I also read it in some print articles a few years ago. ( I believe one mag. was MONEY magazine - I've been a subscriber for 41 years ). I don't save all magazines for the sake of political arguments. The times I saw him say he's a Republican, like I said , were on TV. All I know is what he claimed he is. If you want to believe he's a Democrat, that's up to you. I won't keep arguing the point. As far as anyone siding 100% with one party or the other - there are things I agree with from both major parties. And some things I disagree with from both parties. Can't someone like certain things one side or the other is doing or proposing ?? The answer is yes - we can.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

Buffet is 99% a Democrat, regardless of what you saw on tv, or read from Money magazine a few years ago. As far as the tax plan, my opinion is most of us all got a tax break, except for those that live in states that over tax you, and were offset by being able to write that off for your federal taxes. Although I think it should have been an across the board deal, that we all pay in a even amount (21%), or what ever that amount is, rather then giving businesses a lower tax amount. I do understand that the idea if you charge businesses less, it is more appealing to invest back into their company, and to create more jobs, which would increase pay, because there would be more options for jobs. But I also know that if you give the middle income tax payers more of their money back, they will spend it, and the companies will need to create more jobs to make, ship, and sell those items the middle income people spent their money on.