Young apple/crabs vs gypsy moth caterpillars

Derek Reese 29

5 year old buck +
Hello everyone,
Help an older gent at his cabin with habitat stuff. We put in 5 apple/crabs last year (couple in spring couple in fall) and actually got decent growth on his poor soil.
Added 2 more this year.
Then the dreaded gypsy moth caterpillars hit and he didn't discover them until too late.
Is this a death sentence for the young trees? I think he said 3 of them still had at least some leaves?
This is not an every year phenomenon (I've worked with him since 2020 and we have never had them since then at least).
Any way to help the ones that got chomped? (I was thinking fertilizer, but don't know if that's a waste of time).
 
I'm in NE lower Michigan and spraying apples and crabs for tent/gypsy/spongy/you name it caterpillars is a first week of June annual to do.
Later in July we get the opportunity to kill Japanese beetles and rose schafers, YAY!
I think your trees will make it but I'd water them if a hot dry stretch puts any stress on them.
 
Derek -
Maybe check with your local county extension agent and ask them about a spoil drench chemical called imidacloprid. It's easily found at Lowes or Home Depot or most hardware stores in a product called Bayer Year-Round Tree & Shrub Protection. It's a systemic pesticide concentrate you mix with water that travels up through the root system once you mix it and pour it around your trees. It may NOT be the thing to use if / when you decide to eat any of your fruit - but in their early years, it may be a good protection until your trees get to a certain size. Once bigger - or if the gypsies have "off years" - this pesticide MAY be of big help. I use it on my home maple tree to kill spotted lantern flies. As soon as they chew or suck sap - they die. And it lasts for a whole year. If you talk to the extension agents, ask them what topical sprays will work on your fruit trees for gypsies. After blossoms drop, (and bees are not on the apple blossoms), Sevin spray will kill most insect pests. Follow package directions for mixing and timing of sprays.

Thankfully, gypsy moths don't clobber us every year. The state will probably be spraying to kill them in the state forests and game lands, I would think.
 
Derek -
Maybe check with your local county extension agent and ask them about a spoil drench chemical called imidacloprid. It's easily found at Lowes or Home Depot or most hardware stores in a product called Bayer Year-Round Tree & Shrub Protection. It's a systemic pesticide concentrate you mix with water that travels up through the root system once you mix it and pour it around your trees. It may NOT be the thing to use if / when you decide to eat any of your fruit - but in their early years, it may be a good protection until your trees get to a certain size. Once bigger - or if the gypsies have "off years" - this pesticide MAY be of big help. I use it on my home maple tree to kill spotted lantern flies. As soon as they chew or suck sap - they die. And it lasts for a whole year. If you talk to the extension agents, ask them what topical sprays will work on your fruit trees for gypsies. After blossoms drop, (and bees are not on the apple blossoms), Sevin spray will kill most insect pests. Follow package directions for mixing and timing of sprays.

Thankfully, gypsy moths don't clobber us every year. The state will probably be spraying to kill them in the state forests and game lands, I would think.
good call on the county extension agents..I like the idea of the year long spray for my friend..its 50 miles from his house to his cabin so he cant get up there as much as he would like (especially this year with the expensive gas)..I dont think he plans on eating too many of those fruits and they are young trees anyway (oldest one planted April 2021) ...might wait till early fall to spray it if thats ok? I used sevin when i saw them getting bad and i think he did too, but i dont know if his had carbaxyl (spelling?) in it and his issues were alot worse than mine. I only saw a few small (1/4-1/3") caterpillars but he said his were bigger (1/2"-1") and there were loads of them. I think he tried to spray like every other day but they still got ahead of him...
 
The gypsy's completely stripped my apple trees last year, but they did re-leaf and seem to be doing just fine so this year. I have a roll of duct tape and some bearing grease that I have in my truck, in case I start seeing tree damage again this year. I have been successful in keeping them off certain trees by wrapping the tree in duct tape, stick side out, then coating the tape with grease. They won't cross it.
 
The gypsy's completely stripped my apple trees last year, but they did re-leaf and seem to be doing just fine so this year. I have a roll of duct tape and some bearing grease that I have in my truck, in case I start seeing tree damage again this year. I have been successful in keeping them off certain trees by wrapping the tree in duct tape, stick side out, then coating the tape with grease. They won't cross it.
that sounds like a great trick! thanks for the encouragement too!
 
Derek -
The product I mentioned in post #4 is not a spray - it's a soil drench that you mix the concentrate with water, and pour around the tree. I mixed mine in a bucket. The instructions tell you to measure the circumference around the trunk and that determines the amount of concentrate to add to 1 gallon of water. The stuff works on azaleas and shrubs too. No insects eating your stuff. It may help guys with younger trees safely grow them past a few years of gypsy moth infestations. Bayer - the aspirin people - make it, and I think there's a newer wording on the label ........ "Bio-Advanced" I believe. Same stuff made by Bayer - they just changed the label.

I've been advised by genuine apple tree experts (university profs and commercial orchardists) that once trees get bigger, they can fight off insect damage better than younger trees. FWIW.
 
Derek -
The product I mentioned in post #4 is not a spray - it's a soil drench that you mix the concentrate with water, and pour around the tree. I mixed mine in a bucket. The instructions tell you to measure the circumference around the trunk and that determines the amount of concentrate to add to 1 gallon of water. The stuff works on azaleas and shrubs too. No insects eating your stuff. It may help guys with younger trees safely grow them past a few years of gypsy moth infestations. Bayer - the aspirin people - make it, and I think there's a newer wording on the label ........ "Bio-Advanced" I believe. Same stuff made by Bayer - they just changed the label.

I've been advised by genuine apple tree experts (university profs and commercial orchardists) that once trees get bigger, they can fight off insect damage better than younger trees. FWIW.
just checked it out online ...it's the real deal based on the reviews...any negative to getting some and spreading now (or at least prior to winter?)
 
just checked it out online ...it's the real deal based on the reviews...any negative to getting some and spreading now (or at least prior to winter?)
I just poured my annual dose around our maple tree a few days ago. Pour away!! It'll take about 7 to 10 days for it to work its way all through the tree - but it'll protect up to this same time next summer. It's a once-per-year treatment. Any early spring 2023 insect munchers will be toast. I would NOT use it once trees get big enough to be able to EAT any of those apples from the trees - IF you plan to eat any. I'm not sure about residual amounts in the fruit if they were to be eaten. But I'm sure Bayer Bio-Advance will protect your trees until they get some good size to them.

Read the directions carefully so you get the dosage right.

I've also used Sevin spray on our apple trees. It has carbaryl in it, which I believe is the active ingredient. Sevin needs to be re-applied according to label directions.
 
Derek, Sevin comes in a spirnkly powder form if you dont have a sprayer.

Also, old school catapiller control was to put a layer of grease on the trunk, so they cant get up there and eat. Nest on a tree is another story all together.

I am about 20 miles west of NW CT border. Look out for small green guy....... I have aphids eattingmy my apple trees, not horrible though.
 
I thought I was dealing with tent caterpillars the last few years but it turns out they are spongy (gypsy) caterpillars. All of my crabs look nice and clean and putting on growth with very few caterpillars but my Liberty, Enterpise and 3006 have been significantly defoliated. I sprayed BT yesterday so hopefully with another spraying in 7-10 days, the apple trees bounce back. I was most looking forward to the 3006 and they are getting hit the hardest. The dolgos, Kerr and buckman look great and even trying to set fruit in their 1st year!
 

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Gypsy moth caterpillars get so numerous that even birds can't keep up eating them. Here in Pa., they've defoliated whole mountain ridges of oaks, maples and other hardwoods. When gypsies are really thick, their droppings from trees in the woods sound like it's raining (no exaggeration!) Keep after them with spraying to protect your apple trees.

Gypsy moths were brought to North America from foreign lands by a "get rich quick" guy who thought he'd become rich from the "silk" they spin in their webs / vertical drops. I believe he brought them in the 1800's or very early 1900's - not sure of the exact time.
 
Derek -
The product I mentioned in post #4 is not a spray - it's a soil drench that you mix the concentrate with water, and pour around the tree. I mixed mine in a bucket. The instructions tell you to measure the circumference around the trunk and that determines the amount of concentrate to add to 1 gallon of water. The stuff works on azaleas and shrubs too. No insects eating your stuff. It may help guys with younger trees safely grow them past a few years of gypsy moth infestations. Bayer - the aspirin people - make it, and I think there's a newer wording on the label ........ "Bio-Advanced" I believe. Same stuff made by Bayer - they just changed the label.

I've been advised by genuine apple tree experts (university profs and commercial orchardists) that once trees get bigger, they can fight off insect damage better than younger trees. FWIW.

I ended up using Imidacloprid on my young trees last year based off your input in this thread, thank! Last week i got the bonide fruit tree spray blend (Captan, Malathion, Carbaryl), do you have any idea if using this spray on trees that already got watered with imidacloprid would have any negative effects? I'd like to use something with a fungicide as well.
 
Gypsy moth caterpillars get so numerous that even birds can't keep up eating them. Here in Pa., they've defoliated whole mountain ridges of oaks, maples and other hardwoods. When gypsies are really thick, their droppings from trees in the woods sound like it's raining (no exaggeration!) Keep after them with spraying to protect your apple trees.

Gypsy moths were brought to North America from foreign lands by a "get rich quick" guy who thought he'd become rich from the "silk" they spin in their webs / vertical drops. I believe he brought them in the 1800's or very early 1900's - not sure of the exact time.
That’s the story at my house with the crap falling sounding like a light shower in the woods. I’ve sprayed Sevin twice with good results. Someone told me an individual caterpillar can eat 12 sq inches of leaf PER DAY! Hope that’s not true but dang.
 
I ended up using Imidacloprid on my young trees last year based off your input in this thread, thank! Last week i got the bonide fruit tree spray blend (Captan, Malathion, Carbaryl), do you have any idea if using this spray on trees that already got watered with imidacloprid would have any negative effects? I'd like to use something with a fungicide as well.
Wind Gypsy -

I have no idea. I'm not educated on chemical interactions between insecticides / fungicides. Maybe check with your state university's fruit tree dept. - or Mich. State U., U. Minn., Purdue, Rutgers U., Cornell U., Penn State - all of whom have excellent apple tree programs. I'm not sure which state you're in - so I named a few good choices.
 
That’s the story at my house with the crap falling sounding like a light shower in the woods. I’ve sprayed Sevin twice with good results. Someone told me an individual caterpillar can eat 12 sq inches of leaf PER DAY! Hope that’s not true but dang.
Gypsies are out down in this part of SE Pa. too. They're a PITA. Crawling up the sides of buildings, cars, on sidewalks ...... none on my home trees -------- yet. We have a big pin oak, a red maple, and 2 different crab apple trees here at home. If the gypsies hit - it's soil drench time with imidacloprid. That stuff puts the clinkers to spotted lantern flies when they invade our red maple.
 
Gypsies are out down in this part of SE Pa. too. They're a PITA. Crawling up the sides of buildings, cars, on sidewalks ...... none on my home trees -------- yet. We have a big pin oak, a red maple, and 2 different crab apple trees here at home. If the gypsies hit - it's soil drench time with imidacloprid. That stuff puts the clinkers to spotted lantern flies when they invade our red maple.
That’s good to know about the lantern flies someone said they made it to my county but thus far I haven’t seen any..Pat has me starting to get worried though..
 
Glad to hear there’s something that works on caterpillars for an extended period of time. Kinda torn on using something like imidacloprid, if I can’t or shouldn’t eat the apples, I don’t really want the deer and other critters eating them and I’m sure the neighbors agree. But to have something available thats effective for the 1st few years of a trees life might be just what a guy needs to get the trees old enough and strong enough to eventually fend for themselves.
 
But to have something available thats effective for the 1st few years of a trees life might be just what a guy needs to get the trees old enough and strong enough to eventually fend for themselves.
Those are my thoughts too, Fair Oak. Some of the guys on here over the years have said that once apple trees get several years of growth to get well established, they can fend off bugs better than young trees can. The crab apple trees I have here at home are ornamental - small crabs of about 1/2' dia. - so no worries about eating those. People apples (eaters) might be a different story as for what chemicals may be safe to use. I know SOME sprays are safe to use up to a point - but not near harvest time - but I don't know which ones ....... or the time frame.

Prof. Kent may know the story since he grows for eating, primarily, I believe.
 
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