Winke Gave Up On ROD

SD51555

5 year old buck +
I had pondered using the title, "Off with his head!" How dare anyone speak ill of the effort to restore ROD?


In all seriousness, he's got a good point on how hard it is to get ROD going and keep it from getting browsed away. I've got no actual beef with Winke, but I thought it'd be a decent thread to bat around while it's winter. I've had similar challenges getting ROD going, and have since learned how to beat the deer without a ton of time, or hauling a ton of garbage (cages and posts) into the woods. So, here are my top tips to re-establish ROD if you're struggling with it. #1 and 3 have produced the largest impact on the entire property.

1. Increase total browse - Find your barometer browse. Mine was ash stump sprouts and basswood stump sprouts. When those started getting browsed less, and even not at all, I realized I was getting ahead of the deer. Once you're ahead of them, they won't have to search as much for something to eat, and less looking means there will be spots they don't eat.

2. If you're planting ROD, keep it away from deer trails. If deer trails don't matter, make them matter. Get enough brush and timber on the ground that the deer need trails. If it's a park, they can go wherever they want and eat everything, or just leave altogether.

3. Make big surface area brush piles. Especially if you have big timber species that have no standing up habitat value (basswood, aspen, poplar, dead conifers, tag alder, diamond willow, cottonwood, box elder, ash), get them on the ground and make a big area the deer will not want to climb into. Dead balsam fir is a great exclusion material. The branches seem to stay on the dead trunk forever and hold up the whole log. I learned this one by accident. I made a decent sized snag of ash logs and brush, and ROD popped up inside it on it's own. That was 5 years ago, and the snag is still intact and the dogwood is already bigger than the deer can eat.

4. If you want to protect some strategically placed dogwoods, plant a shitload in one hole. I've had nothing but great results from putting 20-50 plants (not cuttings) in one large hole. ROD wants to root graft together, so you can take a bunch of individual stems that may only be 16" tall, and transform that into a giant legacy looking bush in 3-4 years.

5. Go find heavily browsed ROD that already exists and put a fence around it. I know that's counterintuitive from what I just said about not hauling in garbage, but those that are already there and growing have the benefit of more roots than top, and can be grown way faster than introduced bushes. Plan to invest in some portable fencing, meaning you'll rehab that bush and move the fence 3-4 years later once that bush is too big for the deer to eat it to the ground. Look for the ones browsed back to 12" and there are lots of stems together. They'll be back to 5' in one year, and in another few, they'll be coarse enough, they can't get reduced to 12" again.

6. Find your existing ROD that isn't browsed, and put the sunlight to it. Knock down everything around it, and then stack that brush around it. One effort produces protection and increases sunlight.

7. Go light on fencing materials. I've been using plastic tenax fence with no problems. It's lighter, requires less post strength to hold up, and is far cheaper. It can be had for 50% less per foot than wire fencing. Here's a link to tenax on amazon.

 
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Pfffff. This is the dumbest video. He should be embarrassed.

So the deer love the shrubs he planted for the deer to eat. He neglected to protect the new shrubs he planted. He won't cage ROD but he will cage apple trees.

What a doofus.
 
Pfffff. This is the dumbest video. He should be embarrassed.

So the deer love the shrubs he planted for the deer to eat. He neglected to protect the new shrubs he planted. He won't cage ROD but he will cage apple trees.

What a doofus.
Yeah, he's lacking some imagination. He's treating it like a tree, and not a colony. A single 8x8 tenax fence enclosure could be built for about $16 worth of tenax fence, and then you have to figure out what kind of posts you wanna use. But inside that enclosure, you could establish or rehab 50-300 ROD stems or more in one giant cluster depending on whether you're caging found natives, or you plant a giant bush of seedlings.

The one I built this year, I put 50 seedlings I pulled out of the ground around my outhouse into one 2x3' hole. I've been tinkering with different design ideas to try to scale this without having to acquire a shitload of $7 steel posts. This one, I tried making posts out of thinner ash trees. It ended up not being worth the time to drop the trees, segment into posts, and dig them in. I think this will work, but I think the cost of steel posts is worth it in the end. If I buy say 8 posts every year, and put in two new ones each year, by the fourth year, I'll have 8 of these going, and I should be able to move 2 every year as they've succeeded and it's time to keep moving.

On this one, I used 6' fence. That's still too high, and a waste of money, and requires a taller post to hold it up. I'd drop it back to 4 or 5' and try that.

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This is a caged native I found probably 5 years ago. This one was in a 4' diameter classic cage like we all use. It was bursting out of that cage, so instead of letting it ride, I gave this one a second life on an even bigger caged area. In one growing season, it's already filled that larger cage.

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This is one I knew was there but never did anything. About 50 native stems in a small area about 7x7'. I built a cage around it before green up this past season. In one season, it went from 12" tall to 4-5' across the board. You can see all of the growth is brand new and green, and it's coming on fast.

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In my area of Minnesota I see Dogwood everywhere. I would predict if I tried to grow it in Iowa, it would be a challenge. The soils are so much different.
 
If I planted shrubs for deer, and the deer went bananas on them, I would double down. And I would certainly make the effort to get out there with a few cages to protect them. After a couple years, when they're big enough to survive without the cage, then I move the cage and plant more.

This summer I will probably to 5 cages with a cluster of 5 cuttings/seedlings in each cage. Dunzo. Then probably another 5x5 next year. Then in two years, move the original cages and put a cluster of 5 in each. So instead of doing 75 unprotected shrubs in one year, I'm doing 75 over 3 years, but my results are almost guaranteed, with minimal effort and expense.

I'll be doing this with hazelnut, elder, willows, other dogwoods, etc. for the foreseeable future. Last year's scouting trips revealed a tragic lack of shrubs, and I intend to correct that. I have great deer activity in the summer, but it generally drops off a cliff in autumn.
 
My attempt was a complete failure. However I do have some management issues and time constraints as well. I want to plant them on our valley property to create a better travel corridor. Not sure that is the best thing to use in the first place but it is creek bottom so I figured it would be a good choice. The location however is enrolled in a program that requires periodic burning. I think I can do this successfully even with the required burning but it would require somewhat regular mowing and that is where the issue comes in.

Anyone who is running a business in Minnesota should have their head examined. All of these radical requirements have made us choose to do more work with less people so I basically live at work. When I'm not here I do still have 2 high school age children at home. ( one of which will be going to the University of Northwestern St. Paul to play volleyball this upcoming summer/fall ) so that takes up a lot of my time yet as well. I can more than likely handle two mowings a year and maybe thats enough.

I'm really not all that interested in doing all of this again if it is going to end up failing anyway. I may just have to go at it in smaller sections and do a better job with it. It will take much longer to do but with less time per year required.

One question I should be asking is, How well does established mature ROD do with fire?
 
Were you able to identify why?
Not totally. I would guess that the number one reason was I planted it in the spring going into a two year drought, and competition from reed canary grass.
 
Not totally. I would guess that the number one reason was I planted it in the spring going into a two year drought, and competition from reed canary grass.

Spray the areas you intend to plant with glyphosate a couple weeks prior. Use "water crystals" to help keep moisture available to the shrubs. Use a weed mat and mulch around the newly planted shrubs. And of course water them whenever possible if they have gone a week or more without rain. That ought to at least help, if not totally fix the problem.
 

This is good, because I've been kicking this around but wasn't sure how sound the idea. I want to plant some trees, but you can't even get a shovel in the ground, there's no way I can pound T-posts in. It'll take enough time just to get a hole for a sapling.
 
This is good, because I've been kicking this around but wasn't sure how sound the idea. I want to plant some trees, but you can't even get a shovel in the ground, there's no way I can pound T-posts in. It'll take enough time just to get a hole for a sapling.
Rocks?? We have a lot of rocks on our place. Tough to get things planted in some areas. Try re-bar for posts??
 
I watched his video when he started doing all that planting work. It was very clear to me that he'd never done a lot of this type of work before. We even traded a comment or two. I made a mental note to wait for the video about the deer hammering everything he planted. It's evident who has done this work and realizes the need for protection in most areas. To me, it's very much a quality(protection) vs quantity situation over the years, where it's clear that quality trumps pure quantity.
 
Yeah, I was kind of surprised by that. He mentions his high deer density as well. I would think they he would know better than to not cage or try to do some brush protection at least. Set himself up for that.
 
On this one, I used 6' fence. That's still too high, and a waste of money, and requires a taller post to hold it up. I'd drop it back to 4 or 5' and try that.

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Saw a study done in WI awhile back that using 4 ft fence is adequate as long as the enclosure size is kept down to about 15' x 15' or so. Too small a landing zone for deer to feel comfortable jumping but can't just step over like a lower one. Just be aware that anything right up to fence will get munched as still can reach over. So you lose a little area and maybe keep planting to several feet away from fencing
 
Spray the areas you intend to plant with glyphosate a couple weeks prior. Use "water crystals" to help keep moisture available to the shrubs. Use a weed mat and mulch around the newly planted shrubs. And of course water them whenever possible if they have gone a week or more without rain. That ought to at least help, if not totally fix the problem.
If you want, use a weed mat first year to get established but would pull it out after that. Dogwoods, hazelnuts and the like will spread out from the original planting but not so much if a weed mat remains until really broken down.
 
Not totally. I would guess that the number one reason was I planted it in the spring going into a two year drought, and competition from reed canary grass.
I don't think reed canary grass does much to ROD. I think the bigger issue is rodents browsing on the new cuttings, and of course deer. I check on mine after plugging the cuttings in and I would say I get about 70% success with no protection. I then go along and add cages or fencing around the best performers. The animal browsing isn't so much of an issue in the first summer or fall, but they will need to be protected in their first winter.

I don't know about ROD and burning. I can say confidently that gray dogwood tolerates burning, but it does not like as wet conditions as ROD.
 
If you want, use a weed mat first year to get established but would pull it out after that. Dogwoods, hazelnuts and the like will spread out from the original planting but not so much if a weed mat remains until really broken down.

Yup. My plan is to move the weed mats with the cages.
 
Rocks?? We have a lot of rocks on our place. Tough to get things planted in some areas. Try re-bar for posts??
It's all shale. I spend close to two hours on and off once digging a hole slightly larger than a milk crate.
 
This is good, because I've been kicking this around but wasn't sure how sound the idea. I want to plant some trees, but you can't even get a shovel in the ground, there's no way I can pound T-posts in. It'll take enough time just to get a hole for a sapling.

These IBC tote frames make good cages that don't have to be pounded into the ground like a fence cage does.
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