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Why were deer numbers so low pre 1990’s

Howboutthemdawgs

Howboutthemdawgs

5 year old buck +
You hear the stories about it being a huge deal to even lay eyes on a deer “back in the day” but I can’t understand why? I bet habitat was soo much better. First, there was simply more. Development and sprawl have erased millions of acres since then. Agriculturally we are so ridiculously efficient that hardly a kernel of corn is left after harvest. I bet fields were a buffet back then. Also fence row to fence row wasn’t a thing either so all that wonderful edge existed. Hunters would have been so less effective than today as well, theoretically allowing the population to explode. Any of us in decent deer country know that if you do not actively keep the population in check it will explode. So what kept populations artificially low back then or what is keeping them artificially high now?
 
Howboutthemdawgs said:
You hear the stories about it being a huge deal to even lay eyes on a deer “back in the day” but I can’t understand why? I bet habitat was soo much better. First, there was simply more. Development and sprawl have erased millions of acres since then. Agriculturally we are so ridiculously efficient that hardly a kernel of corn is left after harvest. I bet fields were a buffet back then. Also fence row to fence row wasn’t a thing either so all that wonderful edge existed. Hunters would have been so less effective than today as well, theoretically allowing the population to explode. Any of us in decent deer country know that if you do not actively keep the population in check it will explode. So what kept populations artificially low back then or what is keeping them artificially high now?
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The deer weren't there. Restocking in Kentucky was still going into the 70's. That's only a 20 year span between then and the 90's.
 
BenAllgood said:
The deer weren't there. Restocking in Kentucky was still going into the 70's. That's only a 20 year span between then and the 90's.
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That’s what I’m asking, why weren’t they there? I figured a whitetails native range was everywhere east of the Mississippi
 
I think for the most part it is regional.
In response to todays “high number”, our area in the north is low due from a couple bad winters, wolves, and liberal permits handed out year after year.

For the low numbers in the 90’s, I don’t know how wide spread that was, but deer numbers were low by us because of liberal permits, and over hunting. Our hunting season had 2 options, first weeeknd was 2 days, second option 4 days, and you couldn’t do both. Then they went to you could buy a license for both, to the season was 9 days. On top of that the season is during prime rut, and farmers started farming every patch of land they could.
 
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After deer were almost wiped out in most areas, seasons were set, some closed, and reintroductions started in different areas and different times. It really isn't that far back when we didn't have the hunting we enjoy today.
 
I just find it wild that a small population of people with rudimentary weapons and little technology could actually wipe out a population of deer. Buffalo or something like that get. Deer can hide anywhere and landscape is thick. I think we’d have a hard time wiping out a population in the south today.
 
Howboutthemdawgs said:
I just find it wild that a small population of people with rudimentary weapons and little technology could actually wipe out a population of deer. Buffalo or something like that get. Deer can hide anywhere and landscape is thick. I think we’d have a hard time wiping out a population in the south today.
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Where we live we had zero deer and zero turkey. I was in my teens before seeing my first deer and in my 20s before seeing my first turkey.
Back then people just went wherever they wanted to go. Property lines meant nothing. Seasons meant nothing. Ethics meant nothing. Turkeys would be easy to wipe out hunting roost trees, and deer could be wiped out hunting does and fawns with no restraints.
 
Howboutthemdawgs said:
I just find it wild that a small population of people with rudimentary weapons and little technology could actually wipe out a population of deer. Buffalo or something like that get. Deer can hide anywhere and landscape is thick. I think we’d have a hard time wiping out a population in the south today.
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The deer would have been adapted to the weapons of the natives. Shooting them with guns was probably like shooting fish in a barrel for the Europeans. I bet you could say the same thing for most the wildlife on the landscape at the time. Just look at the difference between urban deer living in people's back yards and normal wild deer.
I don't know about the south, but we could wipe them out pretty quickly here if all regulation was lifted.
 
I'm always blown away by hearing stories from 30-40 years ago. My dad has been hunting Northern MO since the early '70s. He often tells stories that it wasn't until the mid to late 80s that seeing a single deer in a hunting season was the bar for a successful hunting season. And they actually did deer drives to see that single deer.

I'm sure there was a lot of people who were taking deer pretty much any time they saw one. I'm not sure what caused the flip of the switch to where the population started to explode, because even in the mid-90s, deer numbers weren't that far off from where they are today.

Something that just occurred to me, is that many of the farms around here that now have mature oaks, were all clear cut in the early 1900s. There were cattle grazing on pretty much every parcel of land that wasn't farmed. There simply wasn't much of a mast crop, and if there was it was probably being eaten by cattle. It might have been those trees getting too maturity combined with the CRP program expanding habitat that caused that growth in deer numbers from the 70s to 90s.
 
Howboutthemdawgs said:
You hear the stories about it being a huge deal to even lay eyes on a deer “back in the day” but I can’t understand why? I bet habitat was soo much better. First, there was simply more. Development and sprawl have erased millions of acres since then. Agriculturally we are so ridiculously efficient that hardly a kernel of corn is left after harvest. I bet fields were a buffet back then. Also fence row to fence row wasn’t a thing either so all that wonderful edge existed. Hunters would have been so less effective than today as well, theoretically allowing the population to explode. Any of us in decent deer country know that if you do not actively keep the population in check it will explode. So what kept populations artificially low back then or what is keeping them artificially high now?
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While I am late to respond, I lived through the days when a seeing a deer was special. My second year deer hunting in High School (1975) I found deer tracks, which was a thrill. It was another 7 years before I saw a deer hunting, and even more before the first harvest. Here are my thoughts, many which have been shared already:

1) Better herd management at the state level. In most states, a deer biologist and improved data collection have helped put into place harvest limits that support large scale management objectives.
2) Less poaching. I hang out with a lot of seniors given my profession. Many shared that in their childhood (and this includes my wife) deer were a year 'round food source. Many never considered purchasing a license, and hunted year round. These were not "outlier" type families--they were just poor and in need of an available food source. Based on this conversations, I believe far more deer were harvested (under a brown its down mentality) than was ever recorded. Social programs and urbanization reduced this impact.
3) Better herd management at the landowner level. In our deer coop, we have farmers who have been on the land for generations. This is the first generation that has focused on habitats management and balanced aged groups based on the feedback I am hearing.

Those are the big-three in my opinion. Other considerations, such as fewer hunters, less hunting pressure and less predation are likely localized factors.
 
As said, I think deer numbers varied by region. Here in MN we had a few really rugged winters.....wth very deep snow in the 80's. This wiped out the deer and pheasant numbers in many areas here. I remember being a member of the Isaak Walton League here...and we put out lots of corn feeders for deer and pheasants with snowmobiles. Not sure how much good the feeders did. Pheasant numbers in the 50's and 60's were still pretty good......but slowly farming had changed (in southern MN) to the point where little winter habitat remained for the wildlife. It may be somewhat better today due to no-till and some of the wildlife management areas......but the birds are a far cry from the 50's populations. So are the numbers of hunters.
 
Foggy47 said:
As said, I think deer numbers varied by region. Here in MN we had a few really rugged winters.....wth very deep snow in the 80's. This wiped out the deer and pheasant numbers in many areas here. I remember being a member of the Isaak Walton League here...and we put out lots of corn feeders for deer and pheasants with snowmobiles. Not sure how much good the feeders did. Pheasant numbers in the 50's and 60's were still pretty good......but slowly farming had changed (in southern MN) to the point where little winter habitat remained for the wildlife. It may be somewhat better today due to no-till and some of the wildlife management areas......but the birds are a far cry from the 50's populations. So are the numbers of hunters.
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So if poaching wiped out all the deer why didn’t it wipe out all the quail and ducks and geese? I’m not saying poaching wasn’t horrible back in the day but it seems odd to me that people who literally needed meat to survive all the sudden became stewards of avian populations.
 
I started in the early (81) 80s. Deer numbers were through the roof where we hunted. Honestly it was nothing to see 30 to 40 a day opening weekend. This was in the necedah area in central Wis. Back then it was a doe tag draw, if lucky you got a doe tag and could shoot either or but not both. Couldn't shoot does in our group opening weekend, funny thing is after that you barely ever saw a deer, they hunkered down so tight darn near had to step on we to move em.
Then in the 90s, they started with t zones, and we wiped out herds because we were stupid and trusted the DNR. Early 2000s? It was a big deal to see a deer , then we got smart, stopped listening to the DNR and the deer numbers started coming back. Here, now a days deer densities are still a bit low imo, but are still pretty good.
 
Howboutthemdawgs said:
So if poaching wiped out all the deer why didn’t it wipe out all the quail and ducks and geese? I’m not saying poaching wasn’t horrible back in the day but it seems odd to me that people who literally needed meat to survive all the sudden became stewards of avian populations.
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I don't know that poaching had much of an impact on game birds in my area. We did have LOTS of game birds in the 50's and 60's and a very liberal bag limit. I can remember when we could shoot 12 pheasants (which was a crazy bag limit.....even in those times).

The limits for ducks and geese was also quite high compared to today........but I don't think there was lots of poaching. I also dont think that sport hunting was done out of a necessity to eat.....it's always been for sport over subsistence in the last century.......IMO. Sure......there are a few exceptions.
 
My dad was born in 1916 and I have heard stories of him shooting the first deer anyone knew of at the age of 13. His uncle looked at the track and thought it was a deer track. That was in north central Minnesota.

Deer numbers rose and fell during different periods, based on severity of the winter.( he and my Uncle shot their biggest bucks on the same day, just after WWII ended. Once again they could get ammo and I imagine pressure was less during the war.)

We had a lots of snow in the 50’s and better numbers, then a totally closed season in about the late 60’s.

Two winters back really hurt the deer numbers and now wolves in that area are slowing or preventing recovery in the population.

80 miles south, where I live now, has different dynamics. Wolves are just to the north, northwest, and east. More ag helps the deer. Two winters back was still hard on the herd.

We just don’t need this Early Antlerless hunt imo.
 
Howboutthemdawgs said:
a small population of HUNGRY people with rudimentary weapons and little technology AND NO GAME LAWS could actually wipe out a population of deer.
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Fixed it for you. Todays Americans probably couldn’t do it, as you say.

ETA I think ducks and geese were more imperiled than deer. Turkeys too. If quail had weighed 20 lbs they would’ve been too.
 
I have talked to some old timers in my area - born mid 1920’s. They said their was no deer to speak of when they got old enough to hunt - and if someone did see one, they killed it. Free ranged hogs in those days up until about 1990. I remember seeing hogs with ear tags. They said that is why deer around here dont pay attention to hogs - they made their comeback with hogs everywhere. In modern reality, there were hogs before there were deer. It was about the 1960’s/70’s when the g&f hammered home quit shooting the does and the deer population will come back. There were deer refuges here back in the 60’s and early 70’s - maybe 5000 acres was off limits to deer hunting and deer were moved there either from elsewhere in the state or northern states. By the early 80’s, it was common to see a deer. I would hunt a couple weeks and kill my two bucks - spikes. We had a four day doe season - one doe. A lot of old timers had seen the light by then and would not kill a doe for love nor money. Took off from there.

Then in mid 90’s - 3 pt antler restriction and 20 years later everyone was shooting 8 pts instead of spikes. Made a huge difference in my area.

As far as small game - the old timers I talked to used a .22 - shotgun shells too expensive. Plus, coon skunk and possum were scarce and there were no coyote and bobcat. Quail and rabbits were everywhere. The fur market crash of 1988 changed that.
 
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