where do my bucks go?

[JoshAnderson]

I didnt really know where to put this so i just put it here. anyway i have a 200 acre farm in northwestern minnesota and we do food plots and have great habitat. all the neighbors always say how great our property is its low pressure with very thick cover and a lot of hazelnuts and oaks. but all summer and fall until October 25th ish all i see are does there are times in a 4 acre field ill see 15 does at once (counting there fawns) and maybe a spike or another young buck but not really any bucks. then october 25th rolls around (our gun season is first weekend in November) ill see tons of bucks last year i had like 3 different 10 points a few big 8s and just a ton of big bucks but the rest of the year nothing. so whats my issue? i know if i have the does that during the rut ill have the bucks but i also bow hunt and it would be nice to see big bucks earlier also.. if anyone has any ideas please share!

 

[Bc4abc]

Josh....I have seen similar results over the years . I have a 800 acre property I hunt each fall All summer we get pics of bucks great bucks and come the last week of Sept 1st week of October they disappear....and I ont mean theu go nocturnal I mean they are gone!....no more pics on trail cams ... then about November they start trickling back ...I've never been able to explain it

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[JoshAnderson]

i dont even get them in the summer only last week of october then november and i dont have cameras up after that so i cant say if they leave right away or not. could it be because i have so many does? we bought this property 3 years ago and the guy before had it 20 years and never shot a doe and ive never shot a doe either

 

[j-bird]

Josh - your issue sounds very similar to mine....except I know why I have my issue. Mine is a lack of cover, sounds like you don't have that issue. I have to wait for the rut or I'll never see a buck.....just the fact of it on my place. It's to the point I won't even hunt early season much because I spend more time educating those does more than anything else. I would suspect there is a reason. Either there is better cover options or better food options else where or maybe there simply isn't room for those bucks to bed on your place. I have read that bucks prefer solitude and that they tend to avoid does in the non-breeding times of the year. Do you have sanctuary areas set-up and are they large enough to give a buck the room he would want without a lot of doe traffic? I have also read, been told and seen to some extent that does and bucks tend to bed in different areas. At least in my area bucks prefer to bed in the timber. Not thick giant tangle of it or the edges, but in areas where they have enough cover to hide them, but also the ability to use the wind and a vantage point, back in the woods. I am by no means an expert on the matter, but the few times I have seen a buck actually in a bed (not influenced by the rut) he was in the woods with cover at his back, with the advantage of some elevation and quite the view in front of him. In the few cases I seen it myself - it was areas I would have otherwise not really paid much attention to. AND they where away from more traditional bedding areas where you would find does. There are other folks here a whole lot smarter and more experienced than I on the matter, but that is what I have seen in my fairly small sampling.

 

[MRBB]

I have seen this in a lot of places
and typically, its FOOD that pulls then away
you might have food, but at different times of yr, different things are more craved and tastier
I would drive about other area's and see what foods are there that you DON"T have

anyone with fruit tree's?
they will move for apples and pears ??
and there only about for a short period of time

many deer seem to start to go more nocturnal as soon as leave's start to fall too, and as the leaves and cover changes so do there movements

along with acorns dropping as again, another food just opened up for them, and the smarter older one's know where things are and Move to get while the getting is there, but DO tend to come back to home ranges as pressure builds else where and other things run out or??

 

[Bill]

Never experienced a no buck situation until October/November. I have had the same experience as others. Summer bucks go on vacation from late August til Nov. As already mentioned I always attributed it to food. I have read bucks like open woods to bed in while thier antlers are soft. Makes sense to me but but I'm no expert. We have both park like opening and thick as dogs hair places on the property. None of which matches your situation.

Based on the fact that you have 15 does in 4 acres I'm leaning towards saying you have a doe honey hole. My bet would be that that's 2 family groups tolerating each other at once and there is another waiting in the cover for room to enter the field. Way to much stress for a bachelor group to want to deal with in the summer or any other time mating isn't in the cards.

I'd experiment next year with no food plots. I know that sounds counter productive to what we do but something is making it to easy for the girls to run your roost.

That or shoot a boat load of them (depending on populations in the area)

 

[Bluecollaroutdoors]

Same here. Pics all summer right up until September 1. Then pics fall right off the board and seeing a buck of any age more than a 1.5 yr old is not even in my thought process. My first 5 nights i saw 23 does and fawns total. Alot of these were repeats but you get the point. October 20th the trickle back in and we will start to get some of the summer boys and some bucks will be on camera almost daily that I have no pictures of at all.

Oddly every season it seems the megagiant of the area that blows the doors off of every other buck pays me a visit around Christmas. 11 years of hunting and 8 years of serious camera action....same pattern every year.


Now....last year no bucks on camera we shot a 2.5 yr old 7 a 3.5 yr old 8 and had a 140/150 at 55 yards in the first 3 weeks of the season. Guess what...no picks of any of those deer. Cameras only tell a part of the story.

 

[Tree Spud]

I didnt really know where to put this so i just put it here. anyway i have a 200 acre farm in northwestern minnesota and we do food plots and have great habitat. all the neighbors always say how great our property is its low pressure with very thick cover and a lot of hazelnuts and oaks. but all summer and fall until October 25th ish all i see are does there are times in a 4 acre field ill see 15 does at once (counting there fawns) and maybe a spike or another young buck but not really any bucks. then october 25th rolls around (our gun season is first weekend in November) ill see tons of bucks last year i had like 3 different 10 points a few big 8s and just a ton of big bucks but the rest of the year nothing. so whats my issue? i know if i have the does that during the rut ill have the bucks but i also bow hunt and it would be nice to see big bucks earlier also.. if anyone has any ideas please share!

Josh ... To even start to answer you question would not be possible with out 3-4 days of walking your property and studying all of the surrounding area properties. There are also about 673 questions to be asked to get a feel for what you know, how you hunt, how you interact act with your property etc, etc.

The 1st issue is probably expectations ... yours versus the realty of your property, surrounding geography, how you hunt, and all the other factors. There are so many variables about why does frequent your property and are either transient or consider your property a bedding area. Yes, does like food and will spend a lot of time feeding until really interrupted. Bucks, and their various age class groups, are a very difficult beast to understand. Add the sexual drive to breed around mid October and you are asking a question that no one can quantify.

Your food sources of hazelnuts & acorns are great for squirrels & nite time feeding. Deer are are constantly moving browsers and your parcel is one small piece of their feeding puzzle.

The 2nd issue is ... relying on your neighbors assessment. In my area, most of my neighbors don't know shit about deer hunting, they are all experts on why I have all of the deer ... :eek:

The 3rd issue is ... The best you will get is from most forums is how to plant foodplots, trees, etc. That has nothing to do with hunting. Your note above suggests you are now feeding deer ... the best hunters I know have never planted a food plot or a tree or hinge cut, etc. They learn to study the land and the deer behavior and adjust their tactics. Mature bucks will always respond negatively to any kind of pressure ... the more time you spend on the property working, checking game cams, etc. means more pressure.

You may ultimately be suffering from spending too much time on forum or reading mags where it all looks easy ... spend more time in the stand enjoying your time in the woods and stop worrying about simple answers to complex problems ... just like musky fishing, it is a sport of 10,000 casts ... good luk and enjoy the hunt ;)

 

[JFK52]

My neighbor to the North has 80 acres of which probably 70 acres is second growth oaks. The acorns are just thick in her woods. I have oak trees on my land, but not to the extent or concentration of the neighbor's property. I believe that the acorns this time of year are the preferred food source for the bucks and they hang out right in those woods filling their bellies. They filter back on to my land when the corn and soy beans and alfalfa are the last food plots around after all the ag fields have been harvested.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

The bucks are there. They just lay low conserving energy before the 2 months a year of fighting and chasing woman! At least I would!

 

[bowhunternw]

What part of NW Mn, are you located near?

There are just certain areas that the bucks like better. I used to hunt the heaviest deer trails/sign that I could find but generally that is does and young bucks. I think young bucks act very similar to does in what they do.

If you look at the surrounding areas, there is probably a type of habitat that they prefer.

 

[JoshAnderson]

What part of NW Mn, are you located near?

There are just certain areas that the bucks like better. I used to hunt the heaviest deer trails/sign that I could find but generally that is does and young bucks. I think young bucks act very similar to does in what they do.

If you look at the surrounding areas, there is probably a type of habitat that they prefer.

east of lake bronson

 

[bigbendmarine]

WAY south of you (North FL), but I see the same thing happen every year, and worth adding I get to watch it from my bedroom window that looks out over about half of my exposed pasture land. Each of the years I've lived in my home (3 now) I've had a nice bachelor group of bucks browse on forbs and weeds in my fields / as well as visit mineral lick sites until early August. Then they absolutely have disappeared throughout late August, September, and early October. The first year I was greatly concerned they wouldn't come back. Then the last week or so of October I noticed dozens of scrapes along my pasture border tree lines as well as camera hits with the bucks traveling to maintain the scrapes. Fast forward a week, and the bucks were sparring during dawn and dusk daytime hours in the open pastures.

Each year since... EXACT same phenomenon. Think it's a number of factors... building testosterone has the bucks on edge and not wanting to spend as much time around their buds, acorns definitely falling so less inclined to travel through fields for browsing, and though I'm not bow hunting / not putting any real hunting pressure on them I'm sure that lots of other signals probably also serve to put them on edge such as shooting by local dove hunters, local hunters starting to target practice, food plot work, lowering light amounts as days grow shorter, etc (probably far more signals than most of us could ever guess). Good news, at least on my place, is rut brings them back in full force... actually with greater numbers than I see with the bachelor group I have in summer, as a few "trespassers" always move in to compete for the attention of the does.

Not really answering your call for help as much as saying that I think it's a fairly common phenomenon. Maybe few folks that are strong bow hunters will offer tips that prove useful on finding the MIA bucks.

 

[Lee Haakenson]

Bucks like open shady cool understory in the summer when their antlers are easily damaged. Also they are probably feeding in soy beans or other summer food sources. When antlers harden in the fall, huntig pressure increases, and food sources change, bucks shift core areas slightly to higher stem count and/or highly secluded areas.

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[Lee Haakenson]

Also I am happy to see only small bucks during summer camera surveys. If your property is setup right and you dont overpressure the land, the amount of mature bucks should increase through the season. Check out Jeff Sturgis' success by design series of books. Great books for small property owners. FYI, im in west central WI.

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[Bowsnbucks]

Big Bend Marine hit on part of the story. All summer the bucks are in bachelor groups, hanging together. When antlers harden and the testosterone levels go up, the bucks separate and get testy with each other. Also, bucks just naturally disperse come fall in most locations. The younger, less dominant bucks don't get to just pick their home area - they have to move away from dominant bucks and establish their own home core area. That's just nature doing what it does. ( And keep in mind that the buck with the biggest rack isn't always " the BOSS " ). Bigger racks can and do get run off by deer with somewhat smaller racks. I've seen that in person. I've watched a smaller 7 or 8 pt. drive a bigger 10 pt. out of a plot at full tilt. When the 10 finally slithered back to the plot, he stayed at the other end of the plot away from the more dominant smaller-racked buck. When the smaller buck started to move toward the bigger 10 pt., the 10 ran back into the woods. Who knows what may happen in any given place and situation ??

Food shifts are also a major player. Acorns in the woods are a big reason that deer patterns change. Food plots and fruit play second fiddle to fat-rich acorns for storing up winter carbs and putting on fat layers. An apple tree that's dropping apples in late summer / early Sept. that gets cleaned of drops is no longer an attraction, where the dry soybeans or corn up the road might be the new draw.

I've seen deer change their patterns every fall once guys start to place tree stands, move around scouting, drive atv's all over, etc. The rest of the year, for the most part, things are more quiet and sanctuary covers are not disturbed. Deer are used to seeing and hearing farmers on tractors, mowers, etc., but not usually on foot and going into areas they've felt safe & undisturbed all late winter, spring, and summer. WE help to change their habits, just by changing what we do. What's new and different - to the deer - is cause for alarm. Why does a sleeping dog in your house start barking in the night when it hears a strange sound or smells a strange scent ?? Sixth sense ??? I've noticed these things over 46 years of hunting. Every fall it's the same.