When to remove grafting tape? Persimmon bark graft

[Bluestone]

Thanks to several threads on this forum, I was able to have some success grafting persimmons this year. The one thing that’s not clear to me is when to remove the grafting tape? I used electrical tape.

I grafted in mid May this year and this one is just starting to take off. Since May 24 rainfall was nearly nonexistent until earlier this week when we were blessed with 3.7 inches, and growth really took off. Thanks everyone.

 

[yoderjac]

I usually don't remove mine until the tree goes dormant. If I graft a tree larger than 1", I use more than one scion to maximize my success. So, when the tree goes dormant I prune all but the best scion and remove the tape. Until the graft takes, I remove water sprouts weekly. Once the graft takes and starts growing, I try to get to the tree to remove water sprouts every 2 weeks.

Your work looks great!

Best of luck,

Jack

 

[b116757]

I have removed all my top worked grafting tape in the last week or so wrong or write it’s what I do. I read somewhere to have it off by about the 4th of July. It’s been working for me so far.

 

[Native Hunter]

In my area, what’s even more important than when to remove the tape is when to brace the grafts from wind damage. Without bracing, storms will typically break off at least half of mine, because they grow tall really fast. I generally remove tape at the end of the growing season but might leave the bracing another year in some cases.

I waited too long on this pear this spring. It snapped right off before I put up the brace.

This is one that I did brace. Pictures worth a thousand words.

 

[yoderjac]

In my area, what’s even more important than when to remove the tape is when to brace the grafts from wind damage. Without bracing, storms will typically break off at least half of mine, because they grow tall really fast. I generally remove tape at the end of the growing season but might leave the bracing another year in some cases.

I waited too long on this pear this spring. It snapped right off before I put up the brace.

This is one that I did brace. Pictures worth a thousand words.

Spot on! I do the same thing. I used to tape bamboo to the tree, but lately I've been using the fiberglass rods from old collapsed portable blinds.

I find this very valuable. With such a well developed root system lots of energy is pushed into the scion meaning explosive growth. Often the growth is so fast that the new central leader flops over. On top of that, a bird landing on it or another animal climbing up there can easily break it off.

I very loosely cable the new growth to the rod. I want the new growth to move freely in the wind but not flop over. The stress from wind is important so that it does not become brittle. I remove this support when the tree goes dormant when I remove all tape. By then the wood has hardened.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Bluestone]

Thanks everyone for the detailed responses. I plan on trying tobacco sticks to support the new growth.

 

[Wild Thing]

I usually wrap the entire scion with parafilm and then secure the scion to the branch with either parafilm or surveyors ribbon. If I use only parafilm I don't worry about having to remove it as it will stretch and eventually start separating on its own. If I have used surveyors ribbon I will remove that after 6 weeks or so and wrap it again with parafilm and just leave the parafilm on until it starts separating on its own at the end of the season.

 

[Native Hunter]

Thanks everyone for the detailed responses. I plan on trying tobacco sticks to support the new growth.

I use cane (native bamboo) because it is so light and strong....and duct tape is your friend too! Good luck.

 

[yoderjac]

I usually wrap the entire scion with parafilm and then secure the scion to the branch with either parafilm or surveyors ribbon. If I use only parafilm I don't worry about having to remove it as it will stretch and eventually start separating on its own. If I have used surveyors ribbon I will remove that after 6 weeks or so and wrap it again with parafilm and just leave the parafilm on until it starts separating on its own at the end of the season.

I wrap my scion with parafilm M. I find one of the success criteria for bark grafting is having pressure on the scion. Electrical tape has some stretch and rebound that helps with that. There are different kinds of parafilm. I use parafilm M. It thins as it stretches and doesn't rebound. This is great for keeping the scion from drying out and the buds pop through easily. It does not do a good job of putting pressure on the bark graft like electrical tape.

On occasion I will use a different grafting technique that depends more on cambium alignment than pressure. This usually happens when a bark graft fails. In this case, I'll keep one water sprout as the new central leader and remove the rest weekly just as if the graft had taken. The next year, this new central leader has a nice taper and it is easy to match diameter with scions for W&T or V or Z or other similar graft. In this case, I use the parafilm-M on the scion. I either use it or freezer tape to bind the graft. I prefer the freezer tape. It is water proof like the parafilm, but binds a little better for me.

Removing the electrical tape before the graft has fully healed can be a problem. I've had no issues removing it late. You're probably ok by mid-summer. I just don't like to mess with mine until they have hardened. I figure need to visit the tree to remove the stake and prune all but one scion, so that is when I remove the electrical tape.

 

[Smokegobbler]

I use cane (native bamboo) because it is so light and strong....and duct tape is your friend too! Good luck.

Walmart sells 32 inch bamboo skewers (12 for $1), which work well for most of my grafting support. High winds can reek havoc on grafts this time of year.

 

[Native Hunter]

Walmart sells 32 inch bamboo skewers (12 for $1), which work well for most of my grafting support. High winds can reek havoc on grafts this time of year.

Yep, that's not very expensive. I have a patch of native bamboo growing on my land, so I just go cut what is needed.

 

[Wild Thing]

I wrap my scion with parafilm M. I find one of the success criteria for bark grafting is having pressure on the scion. Electrical tape has some stretch and rebound that helps with that. There are different kinds of parafilm. I use parafilm M. It thins as it stretches and doesn't rebound. This is great for keeping the scion from drying out and the buds pop through easily. It does not do a good job of putting pressure on the bark graft like electrical tape.

On occasion I will use a different grafting technique that depends more on cambium alignment than pressure. This usually happens when a bark graft fails. In this case, I'll keep one water sprout as the new central leader and remove the rest weekly just as if the graft had taken. The next year, this new central leader has a nice taper and it is easy to match diameter with scions for W&T or V or Z or other similar graft. In this case, I use the parafilm-M on the scion. I either use it or freezer tape to bind the graft. I prefer the freezer tape. It is water proof like the parafilm, but binds a little better for me.

Removing the electrical tape before the graft has fully healed can be a problem. I've had no issues removing it late. You're probably ok by mid-summer. I just don't like to mess with mine until they have hardened. I figure need to visit the tree to remove the stake and prune all but one scion, so that is when I remove the electrical tape.

Not sure if my parafilm is Parafilm M or not Jack, but the buds do push right through it so maybe it is. I do like the surveyors ribbon for binding the graft nice and tight initially, but once I feel like the graft has pretty well taken, I like to remove the surveyors ribbon and wrap it with the Parafilm as I know it will stretch with the growth of the new scion, and when it has done its job it will start separating on its own so it won't hurt anything if I am not right out there to check on it at the right time.

Here is one where the bud pushed right through the parafilm... I like to wrap the entire scion with parafilm to keep it from drying out. Then I wax the tip with toilet bowl wax - works very well.


Here is one where the parafilm hs started separating from the scion. At this point the graft is completely healed...


Here is a successful graft. I grafted it on June 1 (Upper Michigan - Zone 4a), and removed the parafilm on July 18th.


Here is my grafting kit - about a $25 investment...and a little more for the Impresso Tags.



and a couple of the tools which I already had and use for many other tasks - Silky Zubat saw and Felco #8 pruners.

 

[yoderjac]

Not sure if my parafilm is Parafilm M or not Jack, but the buds do push right through it so maybe it is. I do like the surveyors ribbon for binding the graft nice and tight initially, but once I feel like the graft has pretty well taken, I like to remove the surveyors ribbon and wrap it with the Parafilm as I know it will stretch with the growth of the new scion, and when it has done its job it will start separating on its own so it won't hurt anything if I am not right out there to check on it at the right time.

Here is one where the bud pushed right through the parafilm... I like to wrap the entire scion with parafilm to keep it from drying out. Then I wax the tip with toilet bowl wax - works very well.
View attachment 44268

Here is one where the parafilm hs started separating from the scion. At this point the graft is completely healed...
View attachment 44269

Here is a successful graft. I grafted it on June 1 (Upper Michigan - Zone 4a), and removed the parafilm on July 18th.
View attachment 44270

Here is my grafting kit - about a $25 investment...and a little more for the Impresso Tags.

View attachment 44271

and a couple of the tools which I already had and use for many other tasks - Silky Zubat saw and Felco #8 pruners.
View attachment 44272

Those are not bark grafts in the picture. They are cambium alignment grafts. The surveyors tape probably does have enough stretch and rebound for bark grafts. The parafilm (that I use) doesn't. Everyone has different ways of doing it. As long as you're getting good results, it doesn't matter much how you get there.

Thanks,


Jack

 

[Wild Thing]

Those are not bark grafts in the picture. They are cambium alignment grafts. The surveyors tape probably does have enough stretch and rebound for bark grafts. The parafilm (that I use) doesn't. Everyone has different ways of doing it. As long as you're getting good results, it doesn't matter much how you get there.

Thanks,


Jack

No, those are Cleft grafts...didn't know this conversation was limited to bark grafts?

I have had good success with the surveyors ribbon for bark grafts as well...





At this point I removed the surveyors ribbon as I had wrapped it very tightly...and re-wrapped it with just Parafilm...


2 years after grafting. I am leaving the 2 extras for the time being just to help in healing the stump.

 

[yoderjac]

No, those are Cleft grafts...didn't know this conversation was limited to bark grafts?

I have had good success with the surveyors ribbon for bark grafts as well...

View attachment 44274

View attachment 44275

At this point I removed the surveyors ribbon as I had wrapped it very tightly...and re-wrapped it with just Parafilm...
View attachment 44276

2 years after grafting. I am leaving the 2 extras for the time being just to help in healing the stump.
View attachment 44277

I don't think the conversation is limited to anything. The OP was using bark grafting. I was trying to draw a distinction between approaches for bark grafts that benefit from pressure and most other grafts where pressure is less important than cambium alignment. My focus on bark grafts came from the OP.