Violi's Hanging crab-central leader?

[sandbur]

Should I be trying to straighten this central leader with tw or three ties to a conduit or post?

Or is violi's natural form a type of drooping bush?

 

[deepsleep]

Allow me to summarize...

Violi (on Ant.) starting 1st leaf



Violi starting 5th leaf (there is a bamboo stake added to the conduit, so this tree is 12-14 feet tall)




Mine all started out crooked/spindly as well. I trained them on EMT conduit and they are really sturdy, beautiful trees.

 

[CrazyEd]

I would use conduit.

 

[sandbur]

I used conduit on a firecracker crab with no problems and will use it again.
Thanks CrazyEd.(I forgot your real name)

I did read that metal is not recommended in some far north areas.

 

[deepsleep]

I did read that metal is not recommended in some far north areas.[/QUOTE]

Does this have to do with cold injury due to conduction somehow? I have never heard this. We use metal conduit and Ag-lok on all trees for training, and haven't had any problems. They don't add much structural support, however. This is a 5th leaf M7 or M111 after an 80 or 90 mph straight line wind event. The tree was easy to straighten up but the conduit was shot. I am wondering if Stu's 2x2 idea might fare better in the scenario.

 

[sandbur]

I did read that metal is not recommended in some far north areas.

Does this have to do with cold injury due to conduction somehow? I have never heard this. We use metal conduit and Ag-lok on all trees for training, and haven't had any problems. They don't add much structural support, however. This is a 5th leaf M7 or M111 after an 80 or 90 mph straight line wind event. The tree was easy to straighten up but the conduit was shot. I am wondering if Stu's 2x2 idea might fare better in the scenario.

[/QUOTE]
It was mentioned for areas far north of me and had to do with cold conduction.

 

[wiscwhip]

8', treated 2"x2"s will work just fine as well. If you want longer, buy a 2x4" of whatever length you want and rip it in half with a tablesaw.

Dumb question? Will the treated wood affect the trees in any way once the moisture starts to leach the preservative?

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Bur - From looking at your pic, is the graft of the Violi's up about a foot off the ground ?? I got 3 crabs from Morse Nursery 2 years ago and his grafts were up a foot or more from the roots. I had to stake every one of them because they looked just like yours in the pic. Since staking with conduit, they have straightened up and look much better. Growing UP instead of SIDEWAYS !!

 

[wiscwhip]

Not a dumb question. The old arsenic laced GT may have not been a great idea, but the new stuff is supposed to be more "environmentally friendly". I've not had any issues that I'm aware of using the stakes, but I suppose there may be something I'm unaware of.

If a guy does have concerns, you could go with cedar 2"x2"s

That ^^^is likely what I was thinking of, but I do like the sound of the cedar posts, albeit they would be a more expensive alternative.

 

[CrazyEd]

Stu, are you white washing all of your trees like Art does?

I have gone back and fourth on if I should be doing that or not. Seems like a hassle to pull off all my window screen to white wash. I've lost 1 maybe 2 trees over winters so far out of 50. And seeing I have 200 more trees ready to go in my nursery, maybe i dont make it a priority. I dunno.

 

[CrazyEd]

I haven't yet, but I plan to this year. It will be a PITA to pull off the window screen, but I'd think the paint will last for at least two years? From the reading I've done, it sounds like protecting trees for the first 5 years or so should be about all that's needed. If I were planting on your scale and in your location...I think I'd probably skip it. If you had a set up where you could spray the paint/joint compound then it would probably be easier to pull it off. I'll just brush it on my 40-50 trees.

Right on, Thanks. I might try to incorporate some painting at planting time before the screen goes on. But we'll see. It's just another step and consumes more time, but like you said it might be a good practice during those early establishment years. If i can get a good order of pea gravel and bagged composted delivered this fall i'm going to drop another 40-50 trees in place in the spring. We've already got all the mesh just needs to be cut. But I still refuse to plant in the sand straight up. While a truckload of dirt is WAY cheaper than bagged stuff, the bagged stuff is just way easier to move around the farm. Time is money too.

 

[sandbur]

Stu, are you white washing all of your trees like Art does?

I have gone back and fourth on if I should be doing that or not. Seems like a hassle to pull off all my window screen to white wash. I've lost 1 maybe 2 trees over winters so far out of 50. And seeing I have 200 more trees ready to go in my nursery, maybe i dont make it a priority. I dunno.

I pretty much put the white paint above the window screen or just brushed it on the screen.

I am hoping the window screen,when doubled or tripled will shade the trunk and the white paint will not be needed under the screen.

 

[sandbur]

What does the joint compound do?

I was looking at a chestnut crab that I planted about 10 years ago. split bark on the SW side. I pealed it away and some bugs under it. The sunscauld is above a short piece of tree tube I had on it. No paint was used. I did not know about it in those days.

 

[sandbur]

 

[deepsleep]

Take my opinion for what it's worth (not much), but I would put that stake a bit closer to the base of the tree (like 1/2 the distance away or closer) and attach at 2 or 3 points for now. I'm pretty sure you will end up with a crooked tree at the base with it staked like it is.

 

[deepsleep]

Oddly enough, I was able to dig up an old (2013) Violi pic, when my trees were pretty crooked. I use aglok, but don't be afraid to tie in several places and even put a bit of stress on the tree. If you do this, you do have to keep an eye on it for girdling as it grows, however. This is either the tree I first posted, or the one next to it. It has grown nicely/straightened considerably in a couple of years.

 

[deepsleep]

And here is the one I posted earlier, last week, two years older than that last one. Pretty sure it's actually the same tree. There has been a 5' bamboo stake added to the conduit, so this tree is way above the 10' conduit.

 

[sandbur]

I agree that I will get a crooked tree with what I have done. I will try and creep it over a bit. It did not "give" much when I installed the conduit and considered trying to straighten up the first years growth.

Can it be done in stages over a month and slowly tightened up, or just go for it and do it?

 

[deepsleep]

Go for it as much as possible without breaking it. In reality it could probably done over a couple of years, but no need to prolong it, IME.

 

[chummer]

8', treated 2"x2"s will work just fine as well. If you want longer, buy a 2x4" of whatever length you want and rip it in half with a tablesaw.

I rip them in thirds. I have not had one break yet and they are easier to pound in the ground.