Native Hunter
5 year old buck +
USDA Zones don't tell the whole story when it comes to choosing apple varieties. As an example, the Olympic Rain Forest and the Sonoran Desert are in the same zone.
Have a great day!
Have a great day!
USDA Zones
- Thread starter Native Hunter
- Start date
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
Always good to know what something is and what it isn't. The hardiness zone is just a map of the average annual minimum temp. It tells you nothing about everything else that makes a plant survive or thrive or not.
The zone lines were drawn crisply on a high resolution zone map I came across about a year ago, but I think too there is more to the story.
I stopped by a neighbor's farmhouse last spring to gift their family a few apple trees for their yard. The lady asked me what zone they are in. I told her that their yard is in zone 5, but their adjacent field is in zone 4. Another neighbor asked me where the zone dividing line is. I told him that the trees on his property are in zone 4, but their limbs hanging over their line fence are in zone 5. For what it is worth, I do think frost pockets play more of a role than what the USDA is able to depict on the map.
I stopped by a neighbor's farmhouse last spring to gift their family a few apple trees for their yard. The lady asked me what zone they are in. I told her that their yard is in zone 5, but their adjacent field is in zone 4. Another neighbor asked me where the zone dividing line is. I told him that the trees on his property are in zone 4, but their limbs hanging over their line fence are in zone 5. For what it is worth, I do think frost pockets play more of a role than what the USDA is able to depict on the map.
Prof.Kent
5 year old buck +
Don't tell Shiff.
Telemark
5 year old buck +
That's pretty much what I was getting at. Some nurseries are good about including info on their low temperatures. Otherwise you can search weather history for their locations. I think it's more helpful than zone ratings. Plus, so many fruit trees have several ratings for the same cultivar.
Chainsaw
5 year old buck +
I do not have knowledge as to who has the authority to rate the various disease resistance ratings nor the growing zone. And since the reliability of the growing zones are not accurate for all properties it is all suspect to me. It is however a starting point. Any serious wildlife nursery likely does or will have testers in various areas to help them in identifying the strengths and weaknesses of their trees. If a tree has genes for zone 3 but is grown from a graft from that tree then I’m convinced that it really doesn’t matter so much as to where the nursery is located. However a grower in zone 6 can not say for sure that a tree will thrive in zone 3 unless they have testers or accurate feedback from people in zone 3 who have grown the plant in zone 3 and vice versa.
With that said reports from most EDU papers have the most merit for me short of testers.
Native Hunter
5 year old buck +
You guys who have responded in this thread are experienced and understand the limitations of the zones very well. I appreciate all of the input. I wanted to start this thread to help people who may just be getting into the "tree game" to point out the shortfalls of putting too much faith in zones. However, as Chainsaw pointed out - it is a good starting point.
Another point I want to make about disease resistance is that we sometimes overlook how much the impact of diseases can vary based on humidity, temps and other factors that may not have everything to do with zones (i.e. rainforest versus desert). For instance, CAR can be a complete deal killer on a specific cultivar in some areas and not even exist at all in others. I think the thing we sometimes overlook is that it can vary between these two extremes. In some places it may not be enough to hamper fruit production but still make a tree look pretty bad. Once again, as Chainsaw said - tester tell the story better than anything else.
Thanks, and keep the dialogue going.
Another point I want to make about disease resistance is that we sometimes overlook how much the impact of diseases can vary based on humidity, temps and other factors that may not have everything to do with zones (i.e. rainforest versus desert). For instance, CAR can be a complete deal killer on a specific cultivar in some areas and not even exist at all in others. I think the thing we sometimes overlook is that it can vary between these two extremes. In some places it may not be enough to hamper fruit production but still make a tree look pretty bad. Once again, as Chainsaw said - tester tell the story better than anything else.
Thanks, and keep the dialogue going.
chummer
5 year old buck +
I believe you have the car problem with Goldrush. I have a buddy that planted a ton of goldrush and no other varieties. When I told him he needed diversity and goldrush has a problem with cedars close by he had no idea what I was talking about. He has had these trees for a few years now and there is no evidence of car effecting them.
Native Hunter
5 year old buck +
Yes, that is exactly one of the points I’m making.
Just curious - are other apples in the area affected by CAR and if so, to what extent?
Chainsaw
5 year old buck +
Lucky for him Chummer. It shows evidently that just because there are red cedars and apple trees there may not be CAR spores everywhere. Cornell told me that if you are 4 1/2 miles away from infected cedars your apples may not become infected. However rust spores have been known to travel great distances. Your buddy would do well to hedge his bet and diversify with any future additional plantings.
Mortenson
5 year old buck +
Many things in life are worth taking a little gamble on. But gambling on zone pushing in MN probably isn't one of them.
j-bird
Moderator
I have had issue with "pushing" a zone as well. Not with fruit trees, but others. The bad thing is that if you buy trees at big box stores you have a fair chance of buying something that is NOT suitable for your location. Just because they are selling them doesn't mean they are suitable for your area! I try to give myself a zone or two "buffer" AND try to get them from a location as near my zone as I can....just as some insurance.
4wanderingeyes
5 year old buck +
When I first started planting apple trees, I bought 6 of them from Menards. Not knowing anything about fruit trees, or even paying close attention to zones. I purchased them in southern MN, and planted them in NW Wisconsin. I planted them in the fall, and they all woke up the next spring, I thought this apple tree thing is easy! Well the second spring only 1 of them woke up, and I have no clue what kind of tree it even is. It looks to be some sort of an ornamental tree, or small crab. It took about 7 years, and first noticed it had small 3/8 inch fruit. The leaves have a purple color to them as well. I still have the tree, but it is for the birds I guess, and it does flower for several weeks, so I leave it as a pollinator. Since then, I research a little better, and buy trees from nurseries in the area. I have been having good luck with doing that, except being able to keep bear, and coon from damaging them.
chummer
5 year old buck +
He wants to do some grafting with me this year so I am working on it for him. He doesn’t know any better he is just getting into this in his late 50’s with his 80 year old dad. Neat to see them jumping in together at this stage of their lives. He bought a blank canvas surrounded by ag fields so he has potential to build something special.
chummer
5 year old buck +
I am probably 20 minutes from him and the Goldrush in my back yard had some spots (nothing to bad) on it last year and none of the other varieties I have had it. His apples are on top of a hill so maybe the wind currents help him. He definitely has cedars around and on his property.
