Tubes vs cages

[Jordan Selsor]

No, I don't put any in tubes anymore. And the ones in tubes that were still living, whether 6" tall or 6', I put a cattle panel around and screened them.

Mo how many chestnuts you end up with in the north plot native grasses?

I must say I think 4ft tubes are better than 5ft. Trees don't get so spindly. Then again my deer haven't been eating them like yours. Guess that's the difference with 10dpsm opposed to 100dpsm!!!!!

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Mo how many chestnuts you end up with in the north plot native grasses?

I must say I think 4ft tubes are better than 5ft. Trees don't get so spindly. Then again my deer haven't been eating them like yours. Guess that's the difference with 10dpsm opposed to 100dpsm!!!!!

I still have about 65-70 out of 100 chestnuts still going.

 

[Jordan Selsor]

I still have about 65-70 out of 100 chestnuts still going.

Thats good! Be a beautiful site in a few yrs!

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

Mo- you use any t-posts for those cages? What kind of wire cage is that? looks thicker than the welded wire I use. nice looking fruit tree plot there.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Mo- you use any t-posts for those cages? What kind of wire cage is that? looks thicker than the welded wire I use. nice looking fruit tree plot there.

16' cattle panels. they stand on there own. No posts required. You can sometimes find them used for $10. new at $17-21. Hold up very well. and you can always resell them when you are done. Cut up wire mesh, you can't.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

I'll have to keep my eye out on Craigslist for those cattle panels.

 

[yoderjac]

I'll have to keep my eye out on Craigslist for those cattle panels.

Remesh is another alternative that stands on its own. You can use a piece of rebar to hold it in place.

 

[Tap]

Tubes are a waste of money. Hate them! I have had more trees chewed off by mice in tubes that at any other time. Then if the wasp sets up in the tube the raccoon's tear the tube up to get at the wasp nest. If the tree makes it through that and comes out the tube. The fricken deer eat the tops off!

Don't waste your money on tubes!

What Mo said^^^
100% agree...tubes suck.

SW Pa

 

[H20fwler]

I've gone to all caging/screening also with remesh being about the only fencing I use now. On the rare occasion I have had deer run into the remesh a bend the crap out of them.

 

[yoderjac]

What Mo said^^^
100% agree...tubes suck.

SW Pa

I'd say that is an oversimplification. Tubes and cages are different tools. Both have pros and cons. Old narrow tubes without vent holes had a lot of issues. Newer larger diameter vented tubes have less issues. Tubes can still have issues. If not sealed to the ground you can get a chimney effect drying out the tree. They can also hold too much moisture causing fungal issues in some cases. Depending on location the greenhouse effect can be beneficial. They can prevent dieback by keeping young trees a bit warmer in some cases. They can also protect some trees that are photosensitive when young from direct sun. They can encourage wasps which may not harm the tree but can be unpleasant.

They do have their place. They work well for trees that need some protection but are not sought out by deer and are planted in high volume. They are less expensive to buy and less time consuming to install. Some trees do better in tubes than others. For example the reading I did before starting with chestnuts suggested that they don't do well with tubes taller than 18".

When cost is an issue and trees are planted in volume and trees need some protection, tubes can be the best answer for some trees. Like most things, it is finding the tool that best fits your circumstances.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[MoBuckChaser]

The maintenance on tree tubes alone is why they are no good, plus all the other bullsh*t that goes with them! After 3 years when all the cable ties start busting is enough to drive a guy nuts! I don't care how many trees a guy plants!

 

[yoderjac]

The maintenance on tree tubes alone is why they are no good, plus all the other bullsh*t that goes with them! After 3 years when all the cable ties start busting is enough to drive a guy nuts! I don't care how many trees a guy plants!

I guess you haven't used tubes in a while. The Plantra tubes now come with very heavy wire based ties. I've had zero maintenance with them.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

I guess you haven't used tubes in a while. The Plantra tubes now come with very heavy wire based ties. I've had zero maintenance with them.

I would imagine you would have no maintenance, you have no deer to screw with them!

 

[yoderjac]

Correct Mo. As I said, the right tool depends on your situation. I'm in an area where winter is not a major stress period. Browse is plentiful. Deer will seek out pome and I use cages on them. They don't seek out chestnut, Allegheny chinquapin, DCO, and many other species I plant. For many species I use a combination of no protection to tubes. I found that when I plant smaller trees with no protection, deer just feeding by will randomly take a bite or two as the pass. If they happen to hit a central leader, I end up with a bush rather than a tree. Once I get a central leader out of range the tree is fine. Our deer number are also fluxuating and BCC improving which has an effect.

I did have a bear dig up a couple trees and destroy a handful of tubes one year, but I tend to think it was more a curiosity thing and the bear would have likely destroyed a cage as well if I had used one. Funny, most of the trees in the tubes were unharmed. The bear did destroy a commercial ground blind along the way.

Our deer densities have gone from very high to sustainable over the last 10 years. How deer related to trees depends on your situation. Not every one is the same.

 

[Tap]

I'd say that is an oversimplification. Tubes and cages are different tools. Both have pros and cons. Old narrow tubes without vent holes had a lot of issues. Newer larger diameter vented tubes have less issues. Tubes can still have issues. If not sealed to the ground you can get a chimney effect drying out the tree. They can also hold too much moisture causing fungal issues in some cases. Depending on location the greenhouse effect can be beneficial. They can prevent dieback by keeping young trees a bit warmer in some cases. They can also protect some trees that are photosensitive when young from direct sun. They can encourage wasps which may not harm the tree but can be unpleasant.

They do have their place. They work well for trees that need some protection but are not sought out by deer and are planted in high volume. They are less expensive to buy and less time consuming to install. Some trees do better in tubes than others. For example the reading I did before starting with chestnuts suggested that they don't do well with tubes taller than 18".

When cost is an issue and trees are planted in volume and trees need some protection, tubes can be the best answer for some trees. Like most things, it is finding the tool that best fits your circumstances.

Thanks,

Jack

That was slightly an oversimplification. I ran out of time to type and couldn't explain myself better.
I've had more trees girded inside tubes than in cages. I've lost a lot of basswood that were in tubes and lost zero of them in cages.
I've used 2 different style tubes. "High Quality" Plantra tubes, and also a bunch of meth tubes that were given to me. I lost no trees in the mesh tubes from girding and mice nests, but, pretty much every single mesh tube was destroyed by deer. I've watched deer "vandalize" them on several occasions. My property is littered with smashed mesh tubes.
The Plantra tubes get mice in them and I also have weeds and vines grow right up the inside of the tube
.
I eventually cage the trees that were started in tubes anyway. I've just come to accept that if I'm gonna cage them someday, I may as well start out with a cage.
But that being said, as usual, growing zone and tree specie has a lot to do with what works for one guy and doesn't work for another.

And I've offered this on that "old forum"... anyone that wants to pay the shipping, can have all of my unused tubes for free. (mostly mesh, and maybe a few Plantra tubes).

 

[yoderjac]

That was slightly an oversimplification. I ran out of time to type and couldn't explain myself better.
I've had more trees girded inside tubes than in cages. I've lost a lot of basswood that were in tubes and lost zero of them in cages.
I've used 2 different style tubes. "High Quality" Plantra tubes, and also a bunch of meth tubes that were given to me. I lost no trees in the mesh tubes from girding and mice nests, but, pretty much every single mesh tube was destroyed by deer. I've watched deer "vandalize" them on several occasions. My property is littered with smashed mesh tubes.
The Plantra tubes get mice in them and I also have weeds and vines grow right up the inside of the tube
.
I eventually cage the trees that were started in tubes anyway. I've just come to accept that if I'm gonna cage them someday, I may as well start out with a cage.
But that being said, as usual, growing zone and tree specie has a lot to do with what works for one guy and doesn't work for another.

And I've offered this on that "old forum"... anyone that wants to pay the shipping, can have all of my unused tubes for free. (mostly mesh, and maybe a few Plantra tubes).

Perfect example of how location matters. I've had no trees girdled either way. I did put 18" tubes on some of my crabapple trees inside cages and now use quarry stone over landscaping material as mulch but with our burgeoning coyote populations, mice and rodents haven't been a problem for me. Funny how deer relate differently in different areas. My deer pretty much ignore tree tubes for the most part I've got cameras on some fields with tubes and have never seen them mess with them.

By the way, thanks for the explanation. I think it helps folks figure out what issues to watch out for.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Crap you will put up with when using tree tubes.

 

[yoderjac]

Mo, that is the crap you put up with, not what everyone experiences.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Mo, that is the crap you put up with, not what everyone experiences.

Well when you start doing the habitat work I have done to keep deer on your land, you might experience the same thing......until then, happy tubing!

 

[Tree Spud]

Mo, that is the crap you put up with, not what everyone experiences.

I have probably put up 2000 plus tubed seedlings. I can't tell how tubes were knocked over by deer. I had one row were a buck knocked down & broke stakes on almost 20 tubes in a row by rubbing.

Trees grow out of the tube and bend over because the trunk is too weak to support the canopy.

Grass/weeds growing up in the tube and killing the seedling ... this happened on most tube and I had to raise the tube to pull out before the seedling died.

I remember the first time I pulled the netting off and looked in the tube to find a wasp nest with 15 angry ones racing towards me cause I disturbed them ... :eek:

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