Throw and drag brassica plot

[H80Hunter]

I’ve got a small 0.4 acre plot not too far from the house that I want to try a simple brassica plot. I’ve always done the LC Rye mix, and have limited equipment (sprayer and drag harrow, could borrow mower if needed). Want to clear this plan with the group:

Right now it’s mostly goldenrod and some native grass. It’s not a sod forming grass, good OM on the top, goldenrod is about knee high right now. Looks like a I can get the seed down to the dirt and cover with good thatch.

I’ve got some time off work at the End of June, I was going to spray good with gly. Give it about 2 weeks. Come back, spread seed, lime and fertilizer. Drag everything down over the seed. Spray again if necessary. Planning on spreading (pounds per acre) 2# winifred, 2# PTT 5# daikon radish.

I considered not spraying until planting day, but I’m a little worried about the goldenrod getting tall and making things harder. I’m also not sure when it sets seed?

I’m not going to hunt over this so I’m going dor
Tuber production and overall tonnage for overwinter. I’m in southwestern wisconsin.

 

[H80Hunter]

Oh and I live on the property so I can plant right ahead of a good rain (at least forecasted!).

 

[ruskbucks]

I would say it sounds like a good plan, the only problem I see is pulling the drag over the weeds and grass. It will plug the drag up fast with weeds and grass. Instead of covering the seed with thatch, it will be dragged off the field in big pile. A disc would work good. I think it would be better to not use the drag at all.

 

[Iowa_Dave]

Hmmm...by the sounds of your situation, I think your plan could work, but is not guaranteed IMO. I have planted brassicas many times now over the years and many times in the past, without all of the equipment that I have now. So I have "winged it" more than a few times due to time constraints, lack of moisture and other factors. Sometimes those "prayers" have been answered and sometimes I have ended up with a very puny outcome. A few of my thoughts are:

Getting seed to the soil with the plant structure that you describe would be sub-optimal IMO. The best plant that I have seeded brassicas into has been buckwheat that is dying off. All other attempts have had mixed results...sometimes because of a lack of moisture in combination with the throw and drag approach.

Can you spray it to kill it and then burn it? Then you haven't tilled the soil and awakened the weed seeds, etc, but you have a very bare surface to broadcast onto. You really want bare soil.

You could spray to kill, broadcast your seed into the standing vegetation and then drag it well to "shake" the brassica seeds to the soil surface. I have done this with success and also failure, so it is not a sure thing in my experience. Again, timely rains make up for substandard planting conditions. :)

 

[Rit]

For .4 acres I think you have way too much seed. It’s better to be light on brassicas than too heavy. If you still had some bare ground you could always broadcast some grain into the brassicas once they have had time to get established. I usually seed before I spray but if you are concerned with overly mature vegetation spray it early then return in a few weeks and then broadcast. I don’t have much drag experience so I can’t say how that will turn out. I usually mow and some guys have had luck rolling.

 

[H80Hunter]

Thanks guys. A couple of things — first those are the “per acre” rates so I’d be putting down only like 4 lbs of seed TOTAL on the 0.4 acres. That should be about right, no?

Second: it doesn’t look too difficult to get the seed to the soil in this field. The drag would be mostly just to knock over or lay down the dead vegetation in the field now. I thought about putting the teeth UP so I dont plug up the drag and it’s just more like driving over the field.

If it fails, I’ll just seed winter rye later and try again next year.

 

[yoderjac]

I’ve got a small 0.4 acre plot not too far from the house that I want to try a simple brassica plot. I’ve always done the LC Rye mix, and have limited equipment (sprayer and drag harrow, could borrow mower if needed). Want to clear this plan with the group:

Right now it’s mostly goldenrod and some native grass. It’s not a sod forming grass, good OM on the top, goldenrod is about knee high right now. Looks like a I can get the seed down to the dirt and cover with good thatch.

I’ve got some time off work at the End of June, I was going to spray good with gly. Give it about 2 weeks. Come back, spread seed, lime and fertilizer. Drag everything down over the seed. Spray again if necessary. Planning on spreading (pounds per acre) 2# winifred, 2# PTT 5# daikon radish.

I considered not spraying until planting day, but I’m a little worried about the goldenrod getting tall and making things harder. I’m also not sure when it sets seed?

I’m not going to hunt over this so I’m going dor
Tuber production and overall tonnage for overwinter. I’m in southwestern wisconsin.

I was with you until the last sentence. You may want to re-think your expectations. If you are not planting it for attraction to hunt over it or along travel routes to it, you have a scale issue. Unless your deer densities are very low, tonnage is pretty meaningless. One thing I frequently find is expectations that don't fit the scale and resources of the situation. Folks with a small property or limited equipment and time can do a lot to improve the huntability of their land. They are often using the same techniques to folks working with more land, resources, and on a larger scale, but the outcomes will be different.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting you change course or technique. I'm just saying that tonnage is overrated for food plots even for folks working at scale.

Best of luck,

Jack

 

[35-acre]

A couple of other things to consider... being a limited equipment guy myself and have similar experience.

1. You may have to spray a few times to kill that grass (I have stuff that looks like clumps of crabgrass, along with some briars that come up in my field. They don't kill off easy.).
2. You might want to spray earlier (now) to help and possibly follow up again in 10-14 days. There's nothing wrong with going over and hitting some of that field now lightly. It will help stop some of the weeds (prickers, etc.) from really taking hold. It will help keep the deer out of there which might pay off later when your stuff is just starting to grow (they won't be there mowing it down as it comes up - MAYBE). Getting the field ready for your planting even if you knock the stuff down too will help keep moisture in the soil once they are dead and laying (weeds won't be sucking it up while they are alive) and help provide a better end-result.

I use a drag too behind my small 220 ATV. I keep it "prongs up" which helps knock everything down nicely. You can seed before or after you knock it all down. It doesn't make a difference. NOTE: last year I mowed some and dragged some and the end result in a similar sized field didn't show any difference.

3. You didn't mention a soil test. It might be worth your while before you go throw $$ away on seed to ground that won't take well. If you're not too far, go take a few top-level shovels, mix it in a bucket and get someone to take a look at it.
4. I will say, make sure you get fertilizer down when you plant. I think (but would ask others like Jack to help out here) you want to get something down like a 10-10-10 when you put seed down. Lime takes longer to effect soil, so you might want lime down now (after you take some soil samples). It's easy to use a hand spreader and a few 20lb bags go down quick.
5. MY MOST IMPORTANT LESSON LEARNED. Pack the seed down after you plant it. By this, for me, means driving over every inch of the field with the tires of my ATV. I do this as my very last step - just before I pray for rain. I have found that in years when I've forgot to do this, I've had much less growth.

 

[jsasker007]

DISC,SEED AND DRAG

 

[H80Hunter]

I was with you until the last sentence. You may want to re-think your expectations. If you are not planting it for attraction to hunt over it or along travel routes to it, you have a scale issue. Unless your deer densities are very low, tonnage is pretty meaningless. One thing I frequently find is expectations that don't fit the scale and resources of the situation. Folks with a small property or limited equipment and time can do a lot to improve the huntability of their land. They are often using the same techniques to folks working with more land, resources, and on a larger scale, but the outcomes will be different.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting you change course or technique. I'm just saying that tonnage is overrated for food plots even for folks working at scale.

Best of luck,

Jack

Thanks. I guess all I meant was more of this: It’s a clearing near the house, easy to get to. It’s not doing anything for me now, but I love food plotting and experimenting, and it seems like a nice area to do so. I’m not planning to hunt over it, so I’m not worried about having it be peak attractiveness at any certain time. Just somewhere to grow some standing food and then leave it over the winter.

 

[BenAllgood]

Soil to seed contact and moisture are going to be the biggest things. If you can terminate the existing vegetation and still get seed to soil contact timed with a good rain and rains following, then it should be ok. I've done plots similar that were a success and some that were complete failures. With the successful ones, I could see a lot of dirt and had good rains. With the failures, only one ingredient had to be missing; I had no rain.

 

[yoderjac]

Thanks. I guess all I meant was more of this: It’s a clearing near the house, easy to get to. It’s not doing anything for me now, but I love food plotting and experimenting, and it seems like a nice area to do so. I’m not planning to hunt over it, so I’m not worried about having it be peak attractiveness at any certain time. Just somewhere to grow some standing food and then leave it over the winter.

Experimenting and learning are a great reason to do it! If "near the house" means visible from the house, that will help. 1/4 acre can be wiped out quickly by just a few deer and if deer numbers are not low and the field has any attraction, they easily could. Deer generally have some kind of risk/reward algorithm running in their brain. A field visible from regular human activity will generally be seen as higher risk. So, in the fall when they have plenty of other quality food options, they are less likely to hammer the field than if it was remote. This should give your plants time to establish and develop.

Deer relate to different foods differently in different areas at different times. In my area, deer will hit the tops of diakon radish any time after emergence but they typically won't hit Purple Top Turnip tops until after we have had a good frost or two. They will then start on the radish tubers first and hit the PTT bulbs last. I think you are starting with a reasonable mix. If you plant early enough (for your area) and are not getting tubers it is most likely deer are hitting to forage at night. I would then try PTT alone as it is less attractive during early season. As winter moves in and other quality food sources become less available, deer will become braver and risk areas that are closer to human activity.

One more thing I would suggest if you are experimenting, is to use exclusion cages. When I first started planting Eagle soybeans for summer in my area, the other guys thought I was doing something wrong with my planting technique. We had nothing but fields of weeds. "You must not be doing something right. Maybe they are too deep. Maybe not enough fertilizer. Maybe you didn't disc enough. "... The list went on and on. We were planting about 4 acres or so at the time and we had high deer densities. The next year, I put up a Gallagher-style e-fence around about 3/4 acre after planting. Every other field was full of nothing but weeds but we had 6' tall beans in that field when I took down the fence. It wasn't my planting technique, it was browse pressure.

I'm not suggesting you put up an e-fence like I did, but just a small welded wire exclusion cage a few feet in diameter can tell you a lot. You may think you are doing something wrong when you are not. Every area is different but is sounds like you are generally on the right track!

Thanks,

Jack

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I’m always a proponent for burning.if that is not an option I’d spray now. I would think at the earliest you would want to plant July 15-20. Since you live on the property, you will be able to time rain, seed, drag, spray again, and hopefully 24 hours later it rains. Not sure about you but I don’t have anything growing on it’s own in my area that would out compete a brassicas plot. They are about the easiest thing there is to grow. A few years ago I grew a beautiful brassica plot with throw and now during a drought. Good luck


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BobinCt]

Don’t know what kind of drag harrow you have, but I have one with with an aggressive side and not so aggressive, but even the less aggressive side I would not use after spreading brassica seed because that seed is so small and only should be buried 1/4 inch. My harrow would probably bury the seed too deep, but I never used it for brassicas because I’ll spray, seed then just cultipack. I too would spray now and soil test ASAP and amend accordingly. A bag or two of Urea would be nice just before a rain too. Best of luck.

 

[H80Hunter]

I’m surprised by the recommendations to spray now... If I spray now, it’ll be dead to a crisp by mid July. I was thinking I’d spray during my week off 6/22 to 6/26 and then hit it again if necessary when planting in mid-July. No bueno?

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

It's a brassica plot. If it gets even heavy dew in the morning it will grow. It's the easiest plot there is to grow. If you spray now, in three week, or the day you plant it wont matter much. The recommendations for spraying now are because the weeds will be tougher to kill the taller they get. Honestly, the only way it can fail is if it doesn't get rained on.

 

[BobinCt]

H80: That works too. Either one is fine.

 

[yoderjac]

One more thought. I don't know what the weed you are dealing with are. Some weeds, like Marestail in my area, have a natural resistance to gly and just laugh at it. Herbicides like 24D tend to do better with some weeds in this class. You need to look at the labeling for details. I put this out there, not just for the OP, but for others doing similar stuff. 24D can also be mixed with gly. 24D does have a soil residual impact. There are recommended delay times from when you use 24D until you plant depending on the crop. Again labeling will have specifics.

So one general strategy, for folks with a relevant weed problem, is to spray 24D sooner giving the soil residual effect time to dissipate. Then use gly at planting time.

Fall weeds are generally not a problem in my area, but summer weeds are problematic. In order to have sufficient time to grow bulbs, I need to plant turnips early enough for enough days of growing season. Each area is different and it depends on the specifics of your weeds.

I just throw this out as one strategy. As folks say, turnips are pretty easy to grow.

Thanks,

jack