Switch Bedding Area near Food plot

[Bassattackr]

It sounds like I could either plant something this summer to kill off grasses and weeds then plant next year, or maybe a mid summer planting after they have been sprayed well this spring.

Either would work. I had a couple scenarios this past winter due to spraying not being an option:

First area: I established a NWSG strip in an old fescue pasture by discing hard over the winter and frost seeding in the open soil. Got rid of about 80%+ of the fescue, some still remains.. lesson learned but seeding the NWSG heavy definitely helped. If I did this again I would mix in some wild rye to get a bit more early competition to the fescue.

Second area: I disced over the winter and then again around June 1 right when I planted in beans. This worked much better, the second discing got rid of the remaining fescue that came back. Everyone says it's impossible to get rid of but I found this to be a great option for those that don't want to spray. This scenario got rid of about 99% of the fescue in the first year. Then I can frost seed in the bean stubble or lightly disc the top layer just to get a bit more dirt exposed before seeding.

 

[buckdeer1]

I have disk or tilled multiple times after spraying and burning then plant winter wheat and in spring spray with RU and drill NWSG.I would rather frost seed so in this case I spray burn in fall before it gets too cold.Then frost seed before what I hope is last snow.Keep mowed to 12 inches first year if too many weeds.This year I am burning then strip discing to try and get weeds to grow.

 

[Tree Spud]

I’m looking for input on this idea. The open areas in the picture below are a current hay field that I will be converting to a food plot and possibly some cover. My woods is fairly mature so the deer don’t have a ton of bedding options until it can be logged. I’m think about adding a mix of switch grass and maybe pines/spruce for bedding in some of the open areas.

The hayfield shown below in total is about 3.5 acres. I was thinking about switch in the southern half (below the existing row of trees). Above that tree row is kinda steep (4:1) and I don’t think they would bed there so that will be foodplot. The area south of the trees is 1.5 acres. Is this good enough sized for some does to bed in or should I stick to food here too?

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On a property this size, I doubt you will be able to combine food source, bedding, and undetected access.

I would not focus on bedding, let that occur elsewhere. Your property looks to be a travel corridor. I would focus on screening and creating transition cover along wood lines ... shrubs, conifers, or strips of MG or SG to close off sight lines.

Any openings on food sources also create screening. I like the idea of all food plots for both openings. Gives you more options to play the wind and that strip of trees extending into and splitting the open areas would allow you to hunt both areas simultaneously. You could plant the western 1/3 of these openings (assuming this is the left side of your screen shot) with switch grass to concentrate deer more in the food sources. Plant one side for early season (clover, chicory, legumes, etc.) and one side for late season like Nov/Dec (turnips, brassicas, clover, etc.).

Through the woods, I wood search for travel corridors this winter such as tracks through snow. Set-up cameras to see what the movement patterns are. Evaluate your woods, stem count density in wooded areas are critical for deer & especially buck movement. Even in mature woods, a change in topography or slight increases in stem count (look for rub lines, understory brush, etc.) can be that travel path. Increase the transition cover in travel corridors in the woods by either open the canopy (my 2nd choice until you know more about the property), or plant travel lanes and blocks (my 1st choice) of shade tolerant shrubs and conifers. Just breaking up the visual sights lines and thickening the low canopy can create more security for deer movement.

If you do the above in the wooded areas, you will most likely see improved rut activity because bucks will have to search harder for does as they try to locate. With open visual cover and little transition cover bucks can come in downwind and move on if they don't see or detect what they want. Mature bucks simply won't come into a field until after dark if they can see into it.

Do you have mast producing trees in the woods? These on good acorns years would be good bow stand sites.

Remember, not every property can handle every big buck secret habitat manipulation technique shown on YouTube . Best approach for 1st year is to evaluate, monitor, observe, and learn what you have. Sometimes less is more.

 

[westonwhitetail]

Either would work. I had a couple scenarios this past winter due to spraying not being an option:

First area: I established a NWSG strip in an old fescue pasture by discing hard over the winter and frost seeding in the open soil. Got rid of about 80%+ of the fescue, some still remains.. lesson learned but seeding the NWSG heavy definitely helped. If I did this again I would mix in some wild rye to get a bit more early competition to the fescue.

Second area: I disced over the winter and then again around June 1 right when I planted in beans. This worked much better, the second discing got rid of the remaining fescue that came back. Everyone says it's impossible to get rid of but I found this to be a great option for those that don't want to spray. This scenario got rid of about 99% of the fescue in the first year. Then I can frost seed in the bean stubble or lightly disc the top layer just to get a bit more dirt exposed before seeding.

I am interested in using less chemicals when its not needed...Not sure if my ATV disc will work this area well enough of not, but its worth considering, thanks. I could try that early spring and then can spray later if need be prior to planting.

 

[westonwhitetail]

On a property this size, I doubt you will be able to combine food source, bedding, and undetected access.

I would not focus on bedding, let that occur elsewhere. Your property looks to be a travel corridor. I would focus on screening and creating transition cover along wood lines ... shrubs, conifers, or strips of MG or SG to close off sight lines.

Any openings on food sources also create screening. I like the idea of all food plots for both openings. Gives you more options to play the wind and that strip of trees extending into and splitting the open areas would allow you to hunt both areas simultaneously. You could plant the western 1/3 of these openings (assuming this is the left side of your screen shot) with switch grass to concentrate deer more in the food sources. Plant one side for early season (clover, chicory, legumes, etc.) and one side for late season like Nov/Dec (turnips, brassicas, clover, etc.).

Through the woods, I wood search for travel corridors this winter such as tracks through snow. Set-up cameras to see what the movement patterns are. Evaluate your woods, stem count density in wooded areas are critical for deer & especially buck movement. Even in mature woods, a change in topography or slight increases in stem count (look for rub lines, understory brush, etc.) can be that travel path. Increase the transition cover in travel corridors in the woods by either open the canopy (my 2nd choice until you know more about the property), or plant travel lanes and blocks (my 1st choice) of shade tolerant shrubs and conifers. Just breaking up the visual sights lines and thickening the low canopy can create more security for deer movement.

If you do the above in the wooded areas, you will most likely see improved rut activity because bucks will have to search harder for does as they try to locate. With open visual cover and little transition cover bucks can come in downwind and move on if they don't see or detect what they want. Mature bucks simply won't come into a field until after dark if they can see into it.

Do you have mast producing trees in the woods? These on good acorns years would be good bow stand sites.

Remember, not every property can handle every big buck secret habitat manipulation technique shown on YouTube . Best approach for 1st year is to evaluate, monitor, observe, and learn what you have. Sometimes less is more.

That was my other thought was to plant the whole thing in food for year 1. Like you said I could learn how the deer use it and help remove the competing weeds and grasses for next year. The whole property is 76 acres, and is not shown on that map.. I zoomed in a this field for the question. Cover is limited in the woods near here, so that's where the thought of adding the NWSG here for cover. I plan to log after 2023 (when MFL runs out) to help get the cover established in the woods and increase more browse.

There are some good oaks to the north of the field. They bed on the ridge there and likely eat the oaks when they are dropping. I could see deer working their way into this plot from there.

 

[Tree Spud]

The best effective long term & reliable screening is conifers. I would plant & cage 3 rows deep, staggered at 12' spacing, Norwegian or Blue Spruce. It you go with Red Pine, which are the fastest growers, go with 8' spacing.

I would outline your entire property like this. This is the biggest mistake I made on any new property, was now to focus on screening my property borders that were open to neighbors.

You can always plant SG or MG on the inside of the conifers, but conifers also add the benefit of bedding cover if you go 3 rows or more of Spruce. Especially on the east and south sides that is how the deer use my conifer border screening.

 

[Bassattackr]

I am interested in using less chemicals when its not needed...Not sure if my ATV disc will work this area well enough of not, but its worth considering, thanks. I could try that early spring and then can spray later if need be prior to planting.

We used a 10' tandem disc and weighted it, probably over 2,500 lbs. It had been 8-10 years since the soil was turned and the fescue roots were deep. It took two deep turns a couple months apart to kill it. I think you're going to have some trouble with a light ATV disc getting deep enough to terminate it unless you do several times over the course of spring each time it tries to return (if you're doing a spring NWSG planting instead of frost seeding, that is).

In a perfect world, terminating in the fall with gly (twice if needed) and then no tilling during winter provides the best and quickest stands. But that takes money and equipment. See the Lickcreek section on here about that approach.

One last trick, if you do have some cool season grasses return after you seed your NWSG, you can always wait until after the couple frosts in the fall and then spray with cleth or gly. The NWSG are dormant and the cool season grasses continue to grow later and will still be susceptible to herbicide. **Super Easy to tell - The cool season grass clumps are still lush green after 2-3 first frosts, whereas the NWSG are brown then. Makes spot spraying easy.

 

[westonwhitetail]

Those grasses were still green into November easily so I can see how a later season spraying would help eliminate it. My ATV disc would not kill it alone it sounds like but maybe I can get in there and spray it later April, wait 2-3 weeks for it to die off, then disc and seed NWSG mid may? I could then possibly spray again later fall if it came back too strong.

 

[westonwhitetail]

Here are a couple pictures of the field. The first is the east side, the second is the north half where it’s steeper, and the last is the southern half that is flatter.


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[Bassattackr]

Those grasses were still green into November easily so I can see how a later season spraying would help eliminate it. My ATV disc would not kill it alone it sounds like but maybe I can get in there and spray it later April, wait 2-3 weeks for it to die off, then disc and seed NWSG mid may? I could then possibly spray again later fall if it came back too strong.

That is a good plan. You may have to spray it twice 2-3 weeks apart to kill it good in the spring. Also, depending on your variety and source, make sure your NWSG seed is destratified ahead of time so it will germinate, storing in freezer for a period of time will do this. Check with your seed source.

You will also need to keep the weeds in the stand mowed above the seedlings, 2-3 times in the the first year. You will have a flush of weeds/forbs after discing. I frost seeded at high rates and didn't end up mowing at all. I liked the native diversity instead of a monoculture of NWSG. I do have a section of ragweed I wish I mowed though as it outcompeted the NWSG. Your call there..

Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[Tree Spud]

Those grasses were still green into November easily so I can see how a later season spraying would help eliminate it. My ATV disc would not kill it alone it sounds like but maybe I can get in there and spray it later April, wait 2-3 weeks for it to die off, then disc and seed NWSG mid may? I could then possibly spray again later fall if it came back too strong.

If you disk, you will pull up the latent seed bed. Best approach is to spray, let sit for 2-3 weeks. and either A) don't disk and watch what comes up then spray again when plants are 6-8", or B) disk after spraying, watch what greens up and then spray again. Each spraying may require a 3rd spraying. Then plant your SG.

I have never disked to plant SG. I have always frost seeded when there is snow on the ground in February. Snow allows you to see rate of seeding easier. Below is my 8 acre field I planted 3 years ago still 5' tall in March.

 

[westonwhitetail]

If you disk, you will pull up the latent seed bed. Best approach is to spray, let sit for 2-3 weeks. and either A) don't disk and watch what comes up then spray again when plants are 6-8", or B) disk after spraying, watch what greens up and then spray again. Each spraying may require a 3rd spraying. Then plant your SG.

I have never disked to plant SG. I have always frost seeded when there is snow on the ground in February. Snow allows you to see rate of seeding easier. Below is my 8 acre field I planted 3 years ago still 5' tall in March.

View attachment 33184

That looks like a nice field! Did you frost seed into existing vegetation or did you have the ground prepped the year before?


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[Tree Spud]

That looks like a nice field! Did you frost seed into existing vegetation or did you have the ground prepped the year before?


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Yes, that field was a winter wheat field. The wheat came up the following year also. I also did 2 other fields, hand seeded a total of ~17 acres.

I think this field turned out the best because I had my walking rhythm down, seed opening & spreading rate, and distance between all the walking lanes figured out.

What is the grass in the field?

 

[westonwhitetail]

I guess I don't know exactly what grass or grasses are there. It has been used for an organic hayfield that the neighbor has used for years. There is a little bit of clover but mostly gasses.

 

[H20fwler]

Just to show the progression of ours, hayfield to native grasses;

What we started with had been rotated crops for 150 years mostly corn and soybeans the last year was hay;

Year two;

Year four, you can see that different species of native grasses are prevalent in different spots of the pasture now;

 

[westonwhitetail]

Man it really didn't look like much of anything on year 2! Looks great now.

What is the grass in the center of your third picture? It has a bigger seed head than what I think is the big blue stem and switch grass...

 

[Bassattackr]

Man it really didn't look like much of anything on year 2! Looks great now.

Indian Grass (?)

 

[Catscratch]

I would guess Indian grass with that big feathery seed head, it's one of my favorite grasses. Big Blue has a turkey foot, little blue is small and fluffy.

 

[Tree Spud]

Here is a 4 year old field. The apple tree cage is 5' high. We have already had ~14" of snow this year and the SG has stood up well.

 

[H20fwler]

What is the grass in the center of your third picture? It has a bigger seed head than what I think is the big blue stem and switch grass...

Yes indain, I’ve got a couple variants of it, one type has a yellow looking head another more reddish orange. I’m with catscratch it’s one of my favorite natives to the eye. It gets taller than switch for me but not as tall as big blue...the blue has gotten seven feet plus.

In our area with the loamy clay soil we have the big blue seems to be the most dominant right now and stands the best through hard winds rains and snow. I do really like the diversity of a mix of them.
This past summer the native grasses finally took off good for us and turned the pasture into cover that deer seem to use a lot, turkeys nest in and will chase grasshoppers with poults in the thinner spots along woods.
We do have some thistle and teasel in spots that is going to need some attention with the sprayer. I don’t really really like spraying that much and a little of the different kinds of thistles don’t bother me but when they get bigger patches I don’t have much choice. The native grasses seem to do really good competing with a lot of weeds and grasses that we don’t want.