Swapping to Buckwheat

[Rit]

Looking to discuss some options for fall plots. For the last few years I have only planted using TNM. With the exception of the first year I plant into last years WR and clover. I would say my results have been good. My mix consist of WR, tillage radish, and some clover on half the plot and brassicas on the other half. At times I have added some winter peas but not nearly enough. Deer in my area refuse to use the brassicas and the other half of the plot is probably 80% WR. I like WR and will continue to use it but I think the attraction is just so-so.

I know the deer feed on it while browsing but I don’t feel like they go out of their way to hit the area. I don’t plant any spring or summer crops. I do have small patches of perennial clover but they go dormant in the summer heat. I don’t want to feed the deer all summer long with all the Ag I have in the area that’s where I prefer they feed until they shift in late August.

As far as my planting method I plant into last years terminated WR and clover. The WR self terminates and is like straw. It’s bends over and bunches up. A few weeds creep in along with clover. The real issue is when planting brassicas into the WR. The C:N ration of WR straw is something like 80:1 and planting an N seeking crop into isn’t really that ideal. Not to mention that clover and an understory of weeds is tougher to kill and seed into. It affects germination rates if I don’t get a good kill. I also don’t like the way WR covers the new seeds. It is nearly impossible to get it to lay down uniformly when mowing it over the new seed.

This is where buckwheat comes in. C:N ratio in the low 30s and may be able to get put down with a culitpacker. Perfect smother crop. Should breakup faster than WR. I have planted buckwheat before and when it gets closer to maturity it gets really stalky and may just break off. I want to plant into a monoculture of buckwheat. I want to plant BW the first or 2nd week of June. Then plant fall plots into the BW the first 10 days of August. I want more of an attraction crop. I think this year I am going to go with Winter Peas, soybeans, sunflowers, and maybe a small percentage of oats. I will then add WR around Labor Day. I will also still plant brassicas this year but only in 25% of the plot.

I have WR and a healthy amount of medium red clover to plant BW into this year. I probably need to spray it with gly and 2-4d in the next 3 weeks before it matures.

I guess my question is has anyone tried to plant TNM into a solid stand of buckwheat? I know last year I let the BW mature and go to seed. I need to time it before it goes to seed. I just want something more manageable than 5-6’ tall WR straw with a 12” understory of clover.

 

[Catscratch]

Winter wheat doesn't get as tall as winter rye and in my experience is much more attractive to deer than rye. Other than considering a mix of rye and wheat I think you have a very solid plan.

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[Rit]

Winter wheat doesn't get as tall as winter rye and in my experience is much more attractive to deer than rye. Other than considering a mix of rye and wheat I think you have a very solid plan.

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Never tried wheat only because I have read that WR is more forgiving and my soil needs some forgiveness. Maybe this year I over-seed both. I plan to terminate it before it goes to seed anyway.

 

[Catscratch]

Winter wheat doesn't get as tall as winter rye and in my experience is much more attractive to deer than rye. Other than considering a mix of rye and wheat I think you have a very solid plan.

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Never tried wheat only because I have read that WR is more forgiving and my soil needs some forgiveness. Maybe this year I over-seed both. I plan to terminate it before it goes to seed anyway.

I broadcast both (wheat and rye). If I had to choose one I would get rid of rye. I think the "being less forgiving" concept doesn't really apply to deer plotters. Wheat does need more nitrogen to produce seed for farmers and cash crops, but needs little for a green winter grazing crop. Beans and clovers (anything that fixates nitrogen) are a nice rotation for wheat. I tend to plant them together. I like cereals (grasses) to use the nitrogen in legumes so that I don't encourage a grass problem.

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[Bill]

Have you tried to add some rape seed into your brassicas? Deer didn’t touch my turnips until I did that.
Then they hit the greens early.

 

[yoderjac]

Looking to discuss some options for fall plots. For the last few years I have only planted using TNM. With the exception of the first year I plant into last years WR and clover. I would say my results have been good. My mix consist of WR, tillage radish, and some clover on half the plot and brassicas on the other half. At times I have added some winter peas but not nearly enough. Deer in my area refuse to use the brassicas and the other half of the plot is probably 80% WR. I like WR and will continue to use it but I think the attraction is just so-so.

I know the deer feed on it while browsing but I don’t feel like they go out of their way to hit the area. I don’t plant any spring or summer crops. I do have small patches of perennial clover but they go dormant in the summer heat. I don’t want to feed the deer all summer long with all the Ag I have in the area that’s where I prefer they feed until they shift in late August.

As far as my planting method I plant into last years terminated WR and clover. The WR self terminates and is like straw. It’s bends over and bunches up. A few weeds creep in along with clover. The real issue is when planting brassicas into the WR. The C:N ration of WR straw is something like 80:1 and planting an N seeking crop into isn’t really that ideal. Not to mention that clover and an understory of weeds is tougher to kill and seed into. It affects germination rates if I don’t get a good kill. I also don’t like the way WR covers the new seeds. It is nearly impossible to get it to lay down uniformly when mowing it over the new seed.

This is where buckwheat comes in. C:N ratio in the low 30s and may be able to get put down with a culitpacker. Perfect smother crop. Should breakup faster than WR. I have planted buckwheat before and when it gets closer to maturity it gets really stalky and may just break off. I want to plant into a monoculture of buckwheat. I want to plant BW the first or 2nd week of June. Then plant fall plots into the BW the first 10 days of August. I want more of an attraction crop. I think this year I am going to go with Winter Peas, soybeans, sunflowers, and maybe a small percentage of oats. I will then add WR around Labor Day. I will also still plant brassicas this year but only in 25% of the plot.

I have WR and a healthy amount of medium red clover to plant BW into this year. I probably need to spray it with gly and 2-4d in the next 3 weeks before it matures.

I guess my question is has anyone tried to plant TNM into a solid stand of buckwheat? I know last year I let the BW mature and go to seed. I need to time it before it goes to seed. I just want something more manageable than 5-6’ tall WR straw with a 12” understory of clover.

Buckwheat is great for T&M. It breaks down very quickly once it hits the ground. As for your fall plant choice. The only thing I'd say is this. Soybeans and sunflowers are warm season annuals. They are large seeded and don't T&M well. They are fine if you have a no-till drill. Keep in mind that while they are very attractive when young, they will die at the first frost (if the deer don't eradicate them first). Make sure the rest of your mix and sufficient seed to cover the gap they will leave.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

I broadcast both (wheat and rye). If I had to choose one I would get rid of rye. I think the "being less forgiving" concept doesn't really apply to deer plotters. Wheat does need more nitrogen to produce seed for farmers and cash crops, but needs little for a green winter grazing crop. Beans and clovers (anything that fixates nitrogen) are a nice rotation for wheat. I tend to plant them together. I like cereals (grasses) to use the nitrogen in legumes so that I don't encourage a grass problem.

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I prefer WR over WW. With my soil, it has better germination rates for T&M. I need less pH adjustment and no fertilization. My deer don't care which cereal grain I use. WR has a bit more OM production and has a chemical effect on weeds. If my deer deer showed a preference, I'd mix like you but they don't. WR is a bit less expensive here as well.


Thanks,

Jack

 

[Catscratch]

I'm going to politely disagree with that ^^^, I've been TnM beans and sunflowers for many yrs and they work great, pumpkins too. I've been told many times that large seed don't TnM but they work fine for me. Of course u have to add the disclaimer that different areas, zones, weather patterns, and soil types can make a difference.

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[Catscratch]

Rye is more expensive for me. Awnless wheat seed is something like $8 a 50lb bag, rye is about double that here. Plus I have an obvious pattern of preference with wheat over rye. But, once again zone, region, weather patterns, etc make a difference.

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[Rit]

Buckwheat is great for T&M. It breaks down very quickly once it hits the ground. As for your fall plant choice. The only thing I'd say is this. Soybeans and sunflowers are warm season annuals. They are large seeded and don't T&M well. They are fine if you have a no-till drill. Keep in mind that while they are very attractive when young, they will die at the first frost (if the deer don't eradicate them first). Make sure the rest of your mix and sufficient seed to cover the gap they will leave.

Thanks,

Jack

My plan for those soybeans and sunflowers are a quick attractant. They may not work well with my soil type but hoping as it improves it will work better. . (I thought Catscratch may disagree and he did before I could even get this message out). I have pretty good luck with AWPs germinating and growing well with TNM so those will be in the rotation. I will also top dress WR a month or so after planting. I really wish I could get them to eat my brassicas but man 5 years in they just don’t. I have had a couple of really good stands to judge it off.

 

[Rit]

I have never planted a soybean or even seen a soybean seed. Are they similar in size to AWP?

One other thing do I need the more expensive special peredovik sunflowers seeds or is a bag of black oil sunflowers sufficient?

 

[Rit]

Jack one other thing I’d love to hear more about your wildlife openings from a different thread. Could be either a new thread or pile on here. I did something similar this winter in two areas. They were natural travel areas that I kind of pointed corridors to. I plan to plant something in these openings but my focus will be more on browse than planted food.

 

[Rit]

Have you tried to add some rape seed into your brassicas? Deer didn’t touch my turnips until I did that.
Then they hit the greens early.

I have planted almost every brassica under the sun. I have under seeded, over seeded, fertilized, added clover. Planted cheap seed, expensive seed, blue seed, and green seed. Snob deer apparently.

 

[Catscratch]

Soybeans are similar to peas in size and plantability (if that make sense). If you aren't interested in herbicide resistance (RR or Liberty) then grocery store beans do just as well and generally cost about a dollar per pound. Knowing that the deer will wipe them out before they canopy means cheap gets the nod.

I use black oil sunflower seeds. Works great. I'm paranoid about introducing another invasive but have never seen a weed seed in one of those bags. Other bird seed mixes I avoid like the plague.

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[Catscratch]

Have you tried to add some rape seed into your brassicas? Deer didn’t touch my turnips until I did that.
Then they hit the greens early.

I have planted almost every brassica under the sun. I have under seeded, over seeded, fertilized, added clover. Planted cheap seed, expensive seed, blue seed, and green seed. Snob deer apparently.

Same! (Other than radish tops, my deer eat radish tops).

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[yoderjac]

My plan for those soybeans and sunflowers are a quick attractant. They may not work well with my soil type but hoping as it improves it will work better. . (I thought Catscratch may disagree and he did before I could even get this message out). I have pretty good luck with AWPs germinating and growing well with TNM so those will be in the rotation. I will also top dress WR a month or so after planting. I really wish I could get them to eat my brassicas but man 5 years in they just don’t. I have had a couple of really good stands to judge it off.

AWP is fine for T&M but Soybeans and Sunflowers are problematic. Will start a thread on Wildlife Openings.

 

[yoderjac]

I'm going to politely disagree with that ^^^, I've been TnM beans and sunflowers for many yrs and they work great, pumpkins too. I've been told many times that large seed don't TnM but they work fine for me. Of course u have to add the disclaimer that different areas, zones, weather patterns, and soil types can make a difference.

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May be differences in our soils. I've found germination rates are very low for me with soybeans and sunflowers using T&M, but I've got a drill that I use now.

 

[TreeDaddy]

I wish I could TnM beans,sunflowers,etc
Hogs nose and root through thatch to get them

Smaller seeds( sorghum x sudan) less so

bill

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Sunflowers are my favorite late summer planted crop for early bow season attraction. They TNM well for me as do peas and soybeans.

 

[Rit]

Sunflowers are my favorite late summer planted crop for early bow season attraction. They TNM well for me as do peas and soybeans.

I am sure I have read your post about it before but can you remind me what you are typically TNM them into?