Swamp White Oak might replace black ash

[sandbur]

I heard a radio broadcast this morning where they have some study areas in Minnesota where they are lookign at swo as a replacement for black ash after the emerald ash borer hits. They are clearing small plots and planting swo,

As an experiment they completely cut all of the ash off of one tract and also slowly killed the ash on the second tract. It sounds like the slowly killed tract was converted to cattails and grass swamp.

The ash help dry the swamp out and they hope that swo will do the same.

My black ash swamp has balsam fir and tamarack in it. I suspect they will help fill the void.

What are you guys seeing in Michigan?

 

[Satchmo]

Interesting indeed! I can only find it hardy to zone 4. I wonder if there are different varieties of them.

 

[Rally1148]

I don't recall seeing much black ash on my land, but I'll have to look a bit harder.

I haven't heard much about what they're going to do when it goes. As far as I know they're still trying to prevent spread.

 

[sandbur]

The program acknowledged that swo were growing further south, but thought warming climate would allow them to grow in zone 3.

I was under the impression that swo liked a drier spot than black ash.

 

[Jim Timber]

You won't find any of my SWO where my black ash are. Oaks are on significantly drier, higher ground.

Cedar or black spruce might be worth a shot. I have some (I think it's red) pine coming up in the muck too.

Otherwise, weeping willow will love the wet feet and should handle the cold fine.

 

[wiscwhip]

I was under the impression that swo liked a drier spot than black ash.

You won't find any of my SWO where my black ash are. Oaks are on significantly drier, higher ground.

Cedar or black spruce might be worth a shot. I have some (I think it's red) pine coming up in the muck too.

Otherwise, weeping willow will love the wet feet and should handle the cold fine.

bur, your impression and JT's observations are correct from my experience and research as well. It is very unlikely that SWO will replace black ash to any extent at all. SWO, while having swamp in it's name will not tolerate much inundation, definitely not to the level of black ash. It may replace black ash on the fringes of wet sites, but in the thick of the flood prone areas, it will likely not survive. There is a reason they don't already grow in those locations. The main thing I took away from the info is that if you are going to try this, make sure your seed sources are from trees that are already living in flood prone areas, SWO's that are growing on upland soil will do worse that ones from already wet areas. I have attached a couple of links to some very interesting research studies on oak flood tolerance. There are a ton of other cited resources on the bottom of the paper that are also good full of information.

One is from the US Forest Service - Northern Research Station:
http://www.nrs.fs.fed.us/pubs/gtr/gtr-p-24 papers/49walsh-p-24.pdf

The other is from the USGS - National Wetlands Research Center(it is long and has multiple links):
http://www.nwrc.usgs.gov/wdb/pub/diglib/bottomland_hardwood.htm

 

[chummer]

I planted SWO two years ago in a swamp type setting. These see some standing water and the ground is always wet. I tried to find them last summer. They were plant it and forget it plantings. I found around 15 of the 50 that ended up in sunnier spots and they had put on a couple feet of growth. I caged and staked a half dozen that were closest to my food plot. These survived last winter of multiple -30 days. I am hopeful more survived in an area I didn't check until leaf drop. I did see a couple that still had a leaf or two. I will try to remember to take a couple pics tomorrow when I go up.

 

[bwoods11]

I'd be surprised if Swamp White Oak would do very well in low areas in MN

I have a few doing ok, but on slopes that never get real wet

 

[Bowsnbucks]

An aside from the SWO replacing black ash - I saw a program on T.V. and have read some articles about EAB wiping out the ash all over the country. The jist of the articles was that state forestry agencies have known that the ash trees were gonna get wiped out and they preemptively started saving seed from various types of ash and storing them. The idea being that the EAB will eat itself out of existence and then the forestry outfits will actively re-seed areas to start new ash trees. ( EAB supposedly only eats ash trees, not oak, maple, cherry, etc. ) Hopefully they'll burn themselves out much like a grass fire running out of fuel.

 

[Jim Timber]

I'm not 100% positive what I have is SWO, but Stu was staring straight at one and didn't realize he was looking at an oak because the bark is different. I have bur and red, and something else in the white family that grows well in my lower (not innundated with water) moister soils. Either it's a mutant hybrid (not a bad thing - they're great trees), or it's Northern swamp.

 

[sandbur]

I planted 2 swamp whites along the edge of an ash swamp in Cass county. I would say high enough to be well drained and never under water.

They have done as well as my oak here in Morrison county. They might grow 2 inches in a good year.

I have one oak that I planted in 27 years that has done well and it is a red. All the rest have been miserable failures. I guess I should stick to crab apples and spruce.

 

[Kansas-andres]

seeing in Michigan? every ash tree is dead/but standing on my property. our firewood selection has never been better.

the only tree species I observed growing in the swampy " dead ash area's " is sumac, cedar, cherry and the occasional maple and poplar.

 

[Kansas-andres]

I as for swamp white oak replacing ash in wet areas that's interesting. I have a ton of white oaks, but most are growing on the higher ground. oaks growing in swampy areas would be a bonus on my place......It will be interesting what takes over the wet areas.

 

[scott44]

seeing in Michigan? every ash tree is dead/but standing on my property. our firewood selection has never been better.

the only tree species I observed growing in the swampy " dead ash area's " is sumac, cedar, cherry and the occasional maple and poplar.

Same here every Ash on our place is dead, the ground we have isn't wet so I've been going in and planting oaks in and around the Ash.