Swamp White Oak - Buy or harvest?

[GoldenTriangleIL]

I would like to start converting my maple/ash/elm/birch lowland areas to a swamp white oak/pin oak dominated landscapes. The pin oaks are already present so I really only want to add SWO's and release the ones currently present. I can either buy (hopefully) SWO seedlings from the MDC or I can harvest acorns from the trees that are already thriving on the landscape. Anyone have any thoughts? Is there an advantage to harvesting the acorns as far as obtaining better suited trees?

 

[bwoods11]

I would lean seedlings for quicker results, larger 2-3 foot seedlings have worked for me. Protect them though.

 

[scott44]

I'd probably do both, gather some SWO acorns and walk around and push them in the dirt and plant some seedlings. I have to protect my seedlings with either tree tubes or cages so that's a limiting factor for me.

 

[Telemark]

Whichever you choose, coppice the maple, ash, etc. in the winter to provide browse in the mean time.

 

[j-bird]

Saplings will reduce the number of critters trying to eat your planting. Nearly everything in the woods loves to eat an acorn. I grow some in containers and squirrels are a huge issue.....I have to put my containers in a wire dog kennel to protect them otherwise they take the seedling and all! I don't think you will see much difference in growth over time between planting acorns vs a 12" wip. The biggest thing is the numbers your going to plant and the means to do it. You have 2 options....plant what you can protect....OR simply plant such a huge number per acre that the critters simply can't eat them all. And I am talking a difference of 100's saplings per acre planted and caged or 1,000's of acorns per acre and hope for the best.

Like was mentioned the ability to get what you plant the proper sunlight is also going to be a concern as well. I think you are correct however in that in order to change the species mix of the area you need to remove what is currently there and plant what you want. Otherwise, what will grow back will mostly be the same species as you cut down.

 

[Yarg]

If I understand the question correctly I think you're question is regarding genetics... Some would say a swamp white oak is a swamp white oak..but until you plant lots and lots of them from different sources it's hard to appreciate the difference. But I do believe there is superior seedlings... I would do both..hide some of your acorns from your favorite existing trees in the crown's of the ones you're going to cut... And then plant some bare-root seedlings. I have even transplanted wild ones from the side of a highway as soon as the ground becomes frost-free with great success.. just for the fun of it definitely not worth the time and effort as seedlings are <1... At any rate it always feels good replacing existing trees with mast producing ones

 

[The Fishman]

While I have not ordered anything from MDC, I have only heard good things about the quality of their trees. The advantage here is that you are getting a quality seedling for very little cost if you order large numbers of seedlings and you get to plant something next spring. The advantage of collecting acorns is that you can select the acorns from your best producing trees. Studies have shown that around 25-30% of trees are good acorn producers and can produce 75-80% of the total acorn crop in a stand. Half of the trees in the studies were poor producers and produced only 10% of the acorn crop. By selecting acorns from your good producing trees, you increase the chance that the offspring will be good producers also. You should try to collect the largest acorns from the best producing trees.

Important discussion from one of the studies below. "A random selection of oaks for retention, without regard for the acorn production potential of individual trees, may result in a missed opportunity for maximizing acorn production within harvested stands. In fact, there is a 50% chance a randomly-selected white oak tree will be a poor producer. We recognize identifying the better producers on large forested tracts is impractical. However, on smaller properties, and especially where acorn production for wildlife is an objective, it is entirely possible and prudent."

https://www.srs.fs.fed.us/pubs/ja/ja_greenberg019.pdf
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/1df6/ebff6eb055cebeaf264118ef9120f0ca0360.pdf

 

[Tree Spud]

I would like to start converting my maple/ash/elm/birch lowland areas to a swamp white oak/pin oak dominated landscapes. The pin oaks are already present so I really only want to add SWO's and release the ones currently present. I can either buy (hopefully) SWO seedlings from the MDC or I can harvest acorns from the trees that are already thriving on the landscape. Anyone have any thoughts? Is there an advantage to harvesting the acorns as far as obtaining better suited trees?

Starting oaks from acorns is great deer browse. You will have the widest, thickest, multi-stemmed oaks under 2'-3' in about 3-4 years.

Growing oaks is a long, long term process, you will need as much care for oaks as you would provide for fruit trees. Some oaks take 10-20 years before they produce mast and may take 15 years to get to 20' tall.

Going out and clearing for current oaks that are growing is a good idea. You will need to cage them and prune to some extent to get them upward. Remove all ground competition and sunlight restrictions. Oaks require a lot of moisture so clearing is important.

Taking an inventory of what oaks do well there is important. Follow what nature has already started.

 

[BuckSutherland]

I bought 25 SWO from MDC this spring. They are having a great first year. I put down a weed mat and slipped a 5 foot tube over them.

 

[tullybonnie11]

I bought SWO seedlings from the Iowa DNR this spring and they were of great quality (2-3 foot tall). Tent caterpillars set some of them back, but I am sure they're focusing on root establishment this year anyway. Some are tubed, some are caged. I also have several from Nativ Nurseries that I planted last summer. They're doing okay. It's slow going on plantings in their first years.

I am planning on collecting acorns from some prolific producers around my area this fall and grow more oaks. I'll grow them in rootmakers and pots to get them going in their first year.

 

[OakSeeds]

While I have not ordered anything from MDC, I have only heard good things about the quality of their trees. The advantage here is that you are getting a quality seedling for very little cost if you order large numbers of seedlings and you get to plant something next spring. The advantage of collecting acorns is that you can select the acorns from your best producing trees. Studies have shown that around 25-30% of trees are good acorn producers and can produce 75-80% of the total acorn crop in a stand. Half of the trees in the studies were poor producers and produced only 10% of the acorn crop. By selecting acorns from your good producing trees, you increase the chance that the offspring will be good producers also. You should try to collect the largest acorns from the best producing trees.

Important discussion from one of the studies below. "A random selection of oaks for retention, without regard for the acorn production potential of individual trees, may result in a missed opportunity for maximizing acorn production within harvested stands. In fact, there is a 50% chance a randomly-selected white oak tree will be a poor producer. We recognize identifying the better producers on large forested tracts is impractical. However, on smaller properties, and especially where acorn production for wildlife is an objective, it is entirely possible and prudent."

https://www.srs.fs.fed.us/pubs/ja/ja_greenberg019.pdf
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/1df6/ebff6eb055cebeaf264118ef9120f0ca0360.pdf

Good Post Fishman ... allow me to build on your argument. Just over a year ago, I posted on my thread - the Woods, Mistakes I have Made - 5 characteristics of an excellent oak tree for wildlife habitat (page 6, Post 106 - 7/27/2019) and, why it is very important/useful to identify parent trees in your area exhibiting several - if not all - of the critical characterisitcs on a regular basis. Many nurseries sell trees claimed to have some of these desirable characteristics and buyers often pay a premium to get these trees ... with only the assurance of the claims made by the seller.
My post 116 (Sept. 10, 2019) following the #106 post continues the argument for monitoring parent trees in your area for several years to identify the best producers and explicates the same research findings regarding quality producers you discussed in your post.
I've had folks argue they don't want to wait 4-5 years to identify high-quality seed trees; however, most if not all, of the seedlings obtained from state govt. sources are raised from acorns gathered by folks who pay little or no attention to the trees that are the source. Nut gatherers work on a volume basis - in order to make any money - and probably will combine acorns from several sources in a single large sack (that might be advantageous in providing diversity and perhaps ensuring you get some seedlings from better trees).
Every tree I raise, came from a parent tree that has exhibited superior genetics; you wouldn't want it any other way .... especially if you have a smaller property with less available space for habitat trees. Your post is a good contribution; well done!

 

[GoldenTriangleIL]

Let me first thank everyone that posted above. A lot of great information and effort in this thread. I believe I will attempt to conduct an acorn survey this year (and upcoming) year(s) in the hope of finding superior genetics. Call me crazy, but it feels right to utilize the acorns from a lineage of trees that have thrived in this area for thousands of years, they've earned it. Unfortunately, some of these trees are located in areas of high deer usage so I'm trying not to be too invasive.
Apparently, SWO's don't have tap roots so they are fairly easy to transplant. I will be using tree tubes on all plantings. Thanks again.

 

[j-bird]

Let me first thank everyone that posted above. A lot of great information and effort in this thread. I believe I will attempt to conduct an acorn survey this year (and upcoming) year(s) in the hope of finding superior genetics. Call me crazy, but it feels right to utilize the acorns from a lineage of trees that have thrived in this area for thousands of years, they've earned it. Unfortunately, some of these trees are located in areas of high deer usage so I'm trying not to be too invasive.
Apparently, SWO's don't have tap roots so they are fairly easy to transplant. I will be using tree tubes on all plantings. Thanks again.

I would double check the tap root thing. I have grown some in containers and they certainly appear to grow a tap root from what I can tell. Native Hunter on this forum is the person I would reach out too to confirm. There has also been some mixed results regarding tree tubes as well. Some folks get trees that are 3 or 4 feet tall but have weak trunks as a result. I simply use wire fencing to cage mine. Using acorns from trees that seem to perform well for you is a great idea. I often times plant 3 acorns in one cage and then simply keep the one that seems to be doing the best.

 

[Tree Spud]

AS J-Bird stated, tree tubes have the benefit of protecting the tree; however, trees tend to grow fast and become whippy. The tree tube does not allow the tree to develop structural resistance against wind which develops a strong main trunk. Oaks because of their large canopy require a strong trunk. The tube can also be a problem for oaks because of their strong branching tendency and large leafs.