Soil sample suggestions

Brian662

5 year old buck +
I'm going to post a few soil samples here for everyone's review and see what recommendations people have for alterations.

This one is on some decent ground that has been seeing synthetic fertilizer and being food plotted for several years (only two of those years by me). Weed concerns are moderate with pigweed, redroot pigweed, yellow rocket, and limited marestail being the most prevalent. Since I've owned this property it has seen consecutive years of cover crops which get terminated by iron/chemical.

Screenshot 2024-10-10 162311.jpg
 
The next two samples are on the new farm, it was CRP ground for at least the past 12 years, was shocked at how poor (low OM)the soil was considering the CRP.

This is in a destination plot that has a brassica mix as well as a green blend. This has rye, wheat, and vetch cover for this winter. One sample is south end of the field other sample is north, both samples had 3 different plugs pulled within 100 yards.

Thanks for any feedback.

Screenshot 2024-10-10 162517.jpgScreenshot 2024-10-10 162545.jpg
 
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You already know my answer.
 
Gypsum?
 
You got it. First two plots, 300 lbs/ac per year, same time each year. Watch for signs of improvement after 6 months growing time. Look for darker green, less weeds, more biomass.

Last plot, 1,000-2,000 lbs/ac and see how it responds. If it looks good after one year, drop down to a maintenance dose of 300 lbs/ac per year. If it were me, I'd do 2,000. But if gypsum ain't easy to source, 1,000 is a good place to start.
 
You got it. First two plots, 300 lbs/ac per year, same time each year. Watch for signs of improvement after 6 months growing time. Look for darker green, less weeds, more biomass.

Last plot, 1,000-2,000 lbs/ac and see how it responds. If it looks good after one year, drop down to a maintenance dose of 300 lbs/ac per year. If it were me, I'd do 2,000. But if gypsum ain't easy to source, 1,000 is a good place to start.
Would calcitic lime be an option because the pH can come up a little bit?
 
SD curious on how you came up with those gypsum quantities from the soil test. Can you please explain. Ty
 
I’m going off memory, but I think p should be around 40 and k around 150. I’d consider adding p, k and lime to bring it closer to 7.

It does depend on what you want to grow in the future though, the multispecies mix might get by without those additives. If you like good corn and beans for late season, I’d go with the standard ag recommendations.
 
Would calcitic lime be an option because the pH can come up a little bit?

You could, but 6.2 is pretty darn good. I wouldn’t go higher than 6.5 on purpose. If you’re gonna use pellet NPK, you can add pound for pound lime and stay where u are.


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SD curious on how you came up with those gypsum quantities from the soil test. Can you please explain. Ty

His calcium is ok on the first two tests. An annual campaign of gypsum will give him calcium where he still has room to grow, but he’s not at problematicly low levels. 300 lbs/ac gives you 60 lbs of calcium which raises his calcium PPM by 30 per year. He could do that for 5 years and test again. I’d stop at 80% calcium base saturation.

300 pounds also gives you 45 pounds of sulfate sulfur. That’s the key to flavor, protein content, and nitrogen use efficiency. The best of crops will use 30 lbs per crop. But sulfate sulfur will stick around for a year or more in heavier soil. It’ll make your legumes pop and make your crops taste better than identical ones without sulfate.

His third test, he’s at 67% calcium, or 1264 ppm. I’d wanna shoot that into the mid 70’s to 80 right away. 2000 pounds of gypsum would get you 400 pounds of calcium. 400 lbs = 200 ppm. 200 ppm / 1264 = 15% increase. That leaves a lot of free sulfate that’ll grab onto excess magnesium and drop it out of the topsoil as epsom salt.

This is where the math gets rough, but raising 67% x 1.15 = 77% calcium base saturation. That’s not pure math because the magnesium would drop as well, but this gets us close enough. It’s non toxic, durable, and good all around.

Fling some out there and see what happens.


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I wish everyone would get a 40 or 50 pound bag of gypsum and try it on a 40 foot by 40 foot area and just watch what happens compared to the spot next to it that doesn’t get any.

You’ve only got to observe it once and you’ll be on a campaign from thereafter.

For u guys with a Menards, it’s $10 for a 40 lb bag.

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@Buckhunter10 do you have any additional input on these samples?
 
SD. Curious with your 40 x 40 test area. If you did that right near your stand would that increase browse pressure much like adding corn
 
Brian curious why your third test is lower in OM.
 
SD. Curious with your 40 x 40 test area. If you did that right near your stand would that increase browse pressure much like adding corn

Yeah, but I don’t think it’d last. You can’t control when they start on it and that little bit could get wiped out quickly.


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I think it isn't all that surprising why folks would see a response from adding some gypsum, regardless of Ca levels. I'm going to strongly disagree with using base saturation levels as the rationale, though. There was another thread on this a few years ago and I went into the reasons why that is a fool's errand.

Brian, I'd just consider adding some P to that soil with the low phosphorus. You could also add some K for the two tests that were low, but these are for food plots. It would be hard to justify the added cost of increased K. My understanding is that there is a growing amount of published literature that is going against modern sufficiency ranges for K.
 
I am reminded of one of my favorite funny stories related by a well known comedian. He said he was arrested for being drunk in public. He was read his rights. He had the right to remain silent, he said, and continued...but I did not have the ability to do so! I'm not drunk - in public.

By now all ya' all know I have certain unbending thoughts about soils and their productivity and the need to amend and why we do that. Production ag is one universe and food plots are something entirely different. I am never sure which one we are discussing. It matters immensely in production and not so much for food plots.

The information a soil sampling and it's test results provides is sketchy without more information. Geographic location, soil type and how big an area sampled are important - or not. Without knowing how the sample was acquired - how many samples, how deep, over what area - just amending soil on a random basis is probably as effective as acting on a badly acquired sample. I guess we all understand the range of results of an entire field varies widely and wildly. I have seen research where a pH in a single 20 (+/-) acre field can go from the upper 4's to nearly 7. So, what we end up with is an average. Remember, an acre of soil in the "plow layer," for discussion, is 2 million pounds. The sample we send the lab might be a pound. Even a good test collection only provides some rope to hang on to.

Eventually we act based on the information we have, good, bad, more or less. Recommendations are given by the lab and are based on a set of assumptions few of us take the time to read and understand. Most are for production and are meant to replace the nutrients harvested and carried out off the field. There might be some consideration for nutrients leached and lost because of normal weathering, but, mostly we don't know.

The macro nutrients, N, P & K are critical and whatever the outcome of the crop intended will depend on the availability of those nutrients. We rarely consider the micro nutrients. But, my thought is your plant health and related yields will depend on the quality of the soil and your climate. There ae poor soils, OK soils and great soils. In my estimation you can improve a naturally poor soil but it always be a poor soil compared to its brothers and sisters. If it makes you feel good to make the effort at improvement it's money and time well spent, maybe.

There's a place for gypsum and SD has convinced me to look to it for certain fringe situations...but I am not a disciple for its use. It can improve soil structure and chemistry. Used in excessive amounts it can also unbalance soil chemistry. To me the biggest benefit of it is the sulfur it supplies. If you could add one test for a micronutrient I would suggest it be for sulfur, at least once in your life.

To the question - what to do given the test results provided above. Food plots, right? It might be OK to do nothing. The pH's are reasonable. Phosphate and potassium are a little low but having oodles of nutrients available at all times is important if growing conditions - like cold, wet weather and soils are present at planting. In production ag we don't wait for the ideal. In food plots I suspect planting conditions are probably less limiting because we have luxury and leisure.

If it were me I would want the phosphorus in the 20-30 ppm (40-60 lb / acre) and potassium 90-150 ppm (180-300 lbs /acre). I actually think potassium levels are critically important if you want good plant structure - corn that stands and soybeans that hold pods and pods that hold seeds on the plant late into the season.

Now, what you do with this, if anything, depends on how confident you are about the quality of the soil sample tested!

I know, I had the right to remain silent but I did not have the ability to do so!
 
Sorry if I missed this @Brian662 - A few questions

1. Is this till or no-till?
2. Are the crops you are going for the ones on the test or are you planning on continuing with cover crop mixes?

I like @SD51555's gypsum comment. I think this is very often overlooked, specifically when you have mid-textured CECs and high MG. I would imagine this soil feels "tight." Driving some of the MG down can be helpful. You could use high-cal lime and gypsum to further drive the CA up and MG down and adjust PH with the lime's carbonate element.
 
I had actually quit using gypsum as an annual soil amendment on existing plots after the monetary bomb went off and gypsum doubled in price. I had discovered that a well mixed stay-green system has all the sulfate it needs once it’s up and humming after a year or two.

I came back around to pouring it on where I have new plots getting tuned in at the start, and now weed issues.


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I'll try to answer a few of the questions.

In regards to the soil samples, they were taken with a probe in a "W" formation throughout the field. Standard soil probe depth (shoutout to @SD51555 for the soil probe). Samples taken about every 75 yards or so in that W pattern. The two samples in my second post were both from a 3+ acre east facing destination food plot with soil makeup as follows.

Seaton Silt loam, driftless ridge, 12 to 20 percent slope, moderately eroded

Pepin silt loam, 12 to 20 percent slope, moderately eroded

There is currently tillage being done but I'd like to get away from tillage due to the slopes on most of this ground. All ground will be cover cropped with a minimum of cereal rye and some WW, but usually with a N fixer as well. No guarantees the N fixers will make it over winter here.
 
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