Sinking treated lumber in wet ground or concrete

Freeborn

5 year old buck +
I am planning to put up a tower stand along a field edge and marsh and instead of having the stand set on top of the soft ground I am thinking of sinking the posts into the ground and maybe into concrete. I am also thinking of having the posts straight up instead of angled because of the location I am trying to fit to. I would like the treated posts to last for as long as possible so I am looking for ideas on how to keep them from rotting. Are there any upgrades I can make to the type of treated lumber I should use? I also am thinking of coating the bottom part of the wood that would be in concrete so it is sealed. I see the material used for spraying bed liners can be used for wood as was wondering if this wouldn’t work?
 

foggy

5 year old buck +
The just pulled up an eclectic pole from my yard when I built our house. The poe had tags on it that went back to the 40's. It was cedar. The top of the pole was deteriorating pretty bad. The treated part which was below ground was like new. HEAVY and solid as new.
 

Freeborn

5 year old buck +
60lb treated ( 6-0). It's used in all below ground construction. All standard lumber sizes and it should last about.....hmmmm....ahhhh....90 plus years. :cool:

90 years, thats probably enough as long as it will hold up to the winds in open country. Is that type of treated lumber available at most lumber yards like menards?
 
D

dipper

Guest
Treated 4x4 would do it. Also straight black locust, but they are never straight.
 

Freeborn

5 year old buck +
Free- You won't find it at Menards. They and other lower end lumber retailers only carry 40lb (4-0). A side note: More than your asking for but I know you like the details, like me. 40 psi of pressure vs. 60psi of pressure. More pressure more penetration of wood treatment. If you have a lumber company near you, stop in and ask them if they carry 6-0. If they don't, I bet they could order it or tell you where to purchase.

Thanks and yes I am a detailed guy. I'll find 6-0 as its worth making certain its safe. I have a buddy of mine who wants me to use steel but I thought that would be overkill and expensive. Thanks again.
Free- You won't find it at Menards. They and other lower end lumber retailers only carry 40lb (4-0). A side note: More than your asking for but I know you like the details, like me. 40 psi of pressure vs. 60psi of pressure. More pressure more penetration of wood treatment. If you have a lumber company near you, stop in and ask them if they carry 6-0. If they don't, I bet they could order it or tell you where to purchase.

If it were me, just use the 6-0 for below ground, like your 4x4 posts. 4-0 treated lumber would be fine above ground, IMHO
 

Jim Timber

5 year old buck +
You could also pour concrete footers and attach 4-0 to them via the metal shoes made for keeping the butt off the concrete (concrete conveys water into anything touching it which is why all sill plates are treated wood). You wouldn't need to use treated then either, but with our snow levels and driven rain in the summer I'd rather use green treated than have to paint or stain it in the open.

Our privacy fence is untreated cedar and we've been replacing rotted posts for over 10 years in Fridley. The house was built in '65, so they didn't even make 40 years below grade.

If you choose to do the concrete I wouldn't bother with a full depth sono tube form, I'd just auger out the hole, shove a couple #4 rebar pieces in there, and fill it to the dirt line then have a form for the part above grade.
 

bigmike

5 year old buck +
Dirty used motor oil brushed on wood is a good preservative.
 

Tree Spud

5 year old buck +
90 years, thats probably enough as long as it will hold up to the winds in open country. Is that type of treated lumber available at most lumber yards like menards?

Once you sink and position your posts, you can build outriggers at the base. Add angled boards from the outrigger base to the stand posts to provide stabilization.

One of our neighbors actually has a free floating stand with this design and did not sink his posts.
 

MNAaron

5 year old buck +
Freeborn - There is a place just south of Clear Lake along HWY 10 who sells utility poles or at least us to. They are good but trickier to work with if you are building a really tall stand. Heavy to move around and lift etc...

We use mainly 4 by 4 and 6 by 6 treated post and have always had good luck. We are usually top pressed for time to pour concrete ahead of time so we usually just bury a flat rock or concrete block. Not sure if this is right way or not but seems to be working.

We also use the out rigger approach in addition to a ground anchor for securing mobile homes etc...
 

foggy

5 year old buck +
I've got six box blinds. All are from 12 to 14" high at the base and all use legs that taper away from the blind in two directions. Some are "elevators" and the others have similar orientation but are made by the blind manufacturer. As a guess.....I'd say the base at the ground for the 4x4 legs is ten x ten ++ feet.

All of my posts sit directly on the ground and I have use steel fence posts at two opposite corners. I drive the posts into the ground and attach them to the wood with a couple of screws. Keep in mind my blinds are somewhat protected from the wind by pine trees. Still, it can get windy.

I've never had any problems with tipping.....and don't expect any unless we have a tornado or high straight line winds.....(knock on wood).....then all bets are off. We've had plenty of trees tip over from wind storms....yet my blinds are all up-right.

If I were more concerned about tipping.....I would make better ground anchors or perhaps drill a post hole and concrete the hole to cable-tie an anchor to it. All depends on how big of a blind and how windy the area might be.

I dunno.....but concreting telephone poles into the ground sounds like allot of work to me.
 

Freeborn

5 year old buck +
I dunno.....but concreting telephone poles into the ground sounds like allot of work to me.
Agree, I'll probably go with 4x4 as long as I can get the lengths I want. The area I want to put this at is narrow, uneven and damp. When I drill my concrete footings I am pretty sure i will hit muck or water with some of the footings. I may try using a plate attached to the post and attached to the concrete footing; and then supported by outriggers. This would eliminate having the primary posts in concrete. I don't mind taking the extra steps and will make the final decision once I clear the area and drill a sample hole to see what I am working with. The base of the blind could be 16-20 feet depending on my ability to see over the shrubs and into the marsh.
 

Tree Spud

5 year old buck +
FB ... if you can, please take some pics and notes ... would like to learn from your efforts ...
 

Freeborn

5 year old buck +
FB ... if you can, please take some pics and notes ... would like to learn from your efforts ...
Will due, I'm looking forward to the build. Should be interesting to see what the soil requires.
 

UP Powers

5 year old buck +
my only point to this thread. This is NOT HEAVY load bearing construction. Meaning.. you are not going to have a waterbed, fridge, TV, sofa, and 12 of your favorite friends over for a WWE monday raw TV event. I personally wouldn't waste your time with 6-0 treated, most commercially treated lumber at Menards would be more than adequate. My house??? Yup.. 6-0 It's a deer blind, not a condo.

If your holes are dug and you do encounter standing water, perfect, then you don't have to add water to the bags of quickcrete you pour down the hole. One less thing to haul. I don't see a downside to this???
 
B

BJE80

Guest
I tipped the blind up. Then post hold dug next to each support for the blind and sunk a 4x4 3-4' next to it and then lagged it together. Then just poured some quickcrete down the hole. Solid as hell. If you use roofing tar that works really well for sealing wood as well.
 
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Jim Timber

5 year old buck +
The issue is over time there's no way of knowing what condition those boards are in. You could be fine for 20 years and then have one fail, or all of them fail and the blind falls over. Without being able to inspect it, that's a $20-30 difference in construction costs (we're talking 4 boards) which might be good peace of mind vs actual need.

I'd like to think the improvements to my land I made will be safely used for generations after I'm gone. Just because it might out live my need for it doesn't mean I should cut corners which could make it outlive my son for a marginal price bump. You'll spend $25 on deck screws.
 

Tree Spud

5 year old buck +
I tipped the blind up. Then post hold dug next to each support for the blind and sunk a 4x4 3-4' next to it and then lagged it together. Then just poured some quickcrete down the hole. Solid as hell. If you use roofing tar that works really well for sealing wood as well.

I tipped the blind up. Then post hold dug next to each support for the blind and sunk a 4x4 3-4' next to it and then lagged it together. Then just poured some quickcrete down the hole. Solid as hell. If you use roofing tar that works really well for sealing wood as well.

This is wet ground, essentially marsh ... how are you digging holes that stay open?

If this is just ground with a higher water table once you down 24", that is not a problem.

I thought this was about wet ground with potentially surface water ...
 

Freeborn

5 year old buck +
This is wet ground, essentially marsh ... how are you digging holes that stay open?

If this is just ground with a higher water table once you down 24", that is not a problem.

I thought this was about wet ground with potentially surface water ...

Yep this is wetter ground and I won't know what I am working with exactly until I drill some holes. If the soil is complete crap I'll have to make a decision on steps to make it secure. Lots of good information here, I'll get something to work.

Thanks,

FB
 

foggy

5 year old buck +
When I drilled holes for my gate-posts. I used a 12" bit. at about 3' deep the water would keep collapsing the sandy soil and I could not drill deeper and maintain a hole. I put the posts in the ground at that point.....and added two bags of sackcrete, a few rocks......and crossed my fingers. Today the 4x6 x 12' posts are straight and doing a fine job just fine. Take a look at them when you drive thru the gate Jerry.
 
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