Should I prune central leader now or wait

[ToddG]

I have quite a few apple trees on B118 that I think I let the central leader get too tall. It is now leaning over. I have staked and tied it up but I was wondering if I shouldn't just prune it back. The next scaffold
branches are about 3 to 4 ft down. What do you think.
Thanks,

 

[Turkey Creek]

Picture would be good.

 

[ToddG]

Picture would be good.

Here are some pictures. I hope you can see enough to help out.

 

[ToddG]

These are only second leaf and I had to pull a ton of apples off.

 

[ToddG]

I haven't done any heading cuts on the central leaders or the scaffold branches. The only pruning I have been doing is removing water sprouts, unwanted branches, and dead wood. Should I prune back the scaffolds to keep proper shape?

 

[H20fwler]

I wish you would have posted this and asked the question a month ago!
I hate pruning this late..your trees definitely need it but it could set them back or let them get diseased. If you would prune them back I would get some type of tree sealant like Tree Wound or TreeKote to put on the cuts and baby them for a good month.

They sure are nice healthy trees, just growing a little wild. Pruning good young helps to not have major issues down the road.

 

[Jim Timber]

Those are 2 year old grafts?

 

[chickenlittle]

I would not head them off. You'll have 5 central leaders next year. Stake them for support, a piece of bamboo would help. Maybe try scoring by buds to try to get some side growth. I think there is some info on that in the feet fruit s to sticky thread.

 

[ToddG]

Those are 2 year old grafts?

I received them from Cummins in spring 2015. They have grown like crazy.

 

[Jim Timber]

What size were they delivered? This is 3rd leaf if they were seedlings in 2015 btw.

 

[ToddG]

What size were they delivered? This is 3rd leaf if they were seedlings in 2015 btw.

They were what Cummins called feathered. I have some on m111 that are 4th leaf that I had hundreds of apples I had to thin. I do spread manure around them each year.

 

[Turkey Creek]

First and foremost IMO too much nitrogen! Are there buds in those big bare areas that there are no limbs on or is it blind wood?

 

[Maya]

Maybe I missed it, but what variety is it? Some are very whippy like that. An example is Cortland. They are tip bearing and branches and tops tend to bend over, but in your case the answer to your problem looks to me to show in the 3rd picture. There you can clearly see 8-9 scaffold branches going out from the leader. That will easily take energy from the leader. You only want 3-5 in one scaffold. Sometimes you may see one branch get real aggressive, and will take to much energy from the leader too.

Stake it for now, and next late winter, early spring take out 3-4 of those branches. They may sucker some next year, so take them out as they appear.

Right now you can go up to the top and weak leader prune that top so you do not have the same problem. There are 2-3 weak leaders going up with the main leader. Take them out now. Leave one strong leader. And yes, looks like you could slow up on the nitrogen. Good luck!

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Maya - Todd's third pic is the same situation that I had asked you about for my trees. I had large gaps between scaffolds as the leader went skyward. I didn't have 8 or 9 limbs all at the same level like Todd does, but I DID have large gaps. You told me to score right above a bud to push new limbs - which I did this winter - and it worked perfectly. I now have better balance in the trees, and no big gaps along the trunks.

I see what you mean when you told Todd to take out some of those 8 or 9 limbs on the same scaffold level. Too much happening at the same spot, right ??? ( I'm still learning this stuff !! )

 

[Maya]

I see what you mean when you told Todd to take out some of those 8 or 9 limbs on the same scaffold level. Too much happening at the same spot, right ??? ( I'm still learning this stuff !! )

Yes, they take up a lot of energy that should be going up the leader and use it up right there. As an example, if any of you have two similar young trees to experiment with, try this. Let a top go like in the pic above, and weak leader prune the other. The one you prune will grow a lot more than the non pruned tree. Here's a few pics showing what you want to do. Before, after, and a couple weeks later.

 

[Maya]

Also Bows, I really don't worry to much about gaps, but in his case the tree is real whippy. There could be several reasons, but in this case to me, the biggest problem is the transfer of energy between all those branches. This shows up in my tall spindle orchard from time to time, mostly with a dominant branch that tries to take over as the leader. If you catch it early enough and get it out, that's the way to go.

This tree on the right has a gap, but had a nice strong leader. I just cleaned up the top some and it was fine.

 

[sandbur]

Maybe I missed it, but what variety is it? Some are very whippy like that. An example is Cortland. They are tip bearing and branches and tops tend to bend over, but in your case the answer to your problem looks to me to show in the 3rd picture. There you can clearly see 8-9 scaffold branches going out from the leader. That will easily take energy from the leader. You only want 3-5 in one scaffold. Sometimes you may see one branch get real aggressive, and will take to much energy from the leader too.

Stake it for now, and next late winter, early spring take out 3-4 of those branches. They may sucker some next year, so take them out as they appear.

Right now you can go up to the top and weak leader prune that top so you do not have the same problem. There are 2-3 weak leaders going up with the main leader. Take them out now. Leave one strong leader. And yes, looks like you could slow up on the nitrogen. Good luck!

I have trees with the same problem. Some have reached the top of the conduit and others are far beyond the conduit. Heavy fruit loads have permanently tipped the leader. (I cannot safely reach the leader to thin or prune.)

I excess rainfall or nitrogen is part of the problem, is there a point where one should let the grass grow around the tree to slow the growth?

Maya, I wish you were closer to give a good demonstration!

 

[ToddG]

Thanks so much for all the advise. Is it ok to prune out unwanted limbs now? I thought you should only prune when they are dormant. Also, will scoring work now? I pruned out a lot of lower limbs this past winter and was afraid to take to many limbs out at one time. I have made quite a few mistakes. I have read tons of information on how to prune but none of it talks ab out how to handle certain situations.

 

[Jim Timber]

Apples are hardy and you can prune them just about whenever, but it's best not to do it in the spring because of excessive moisture causing other problems.

Mother Nature breaks branches off trees at all times of year, and it doesn't kill them. I had something (or someone) break an apple tree below the first scaffold late last summer, and that tree has 3 new buds last I looked. I headed it at the break to give it the best chance of healing that wound, but it certainly wasn't ideal.

 

[ToddG]

Should I head cut some of the scaffolds to get the pyramid shape?