Reclaiming 35 year old orchard

[Parker35]

Hey guys, My winter project this year is saving our old apple orchard. This used to be a commercial orchard but the trees havent been pruned for 15-20 years. Over the years the trees have grown to be 25-30 feet tall and shaded out the bottoms to the point that many of the lower limbs have died.

The trees still leaf and flower in the tops but fruit production has been poor for the last4-5 years. Trimming these trees back to a reverse pyrimid shape probably isnt very realistic at this point.

To this point i have been going through and removing dead limbs and live limbs that are crossing or crowding the tree. I have read that you shouldnt cut more then 30% of the tree in one year so i feel like i am cutting as aggressively as i can this year.

We have roughly 300 trees in total and time is somewhat limited so this maybe a two year project.

I would love to know what you think of my approach here. If any of the apple experts have advise please share your thoughts.

The first picture is before cutting and the others are after.

 

[sandbur]

Do you have records of the varieties?


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[Parker35]

Yes, I believe we have cortland, 20 ounce, macintosh, summer rambo, idared, and Northern Spy.

 

[Parker35]

We also have some golden delicious and romes.

 

[Apple Junkie]

Those are all nice apples, some of my favorites. You’ve got a big job in front of you, but I can’t think of a better way to get some fresh air and exercise.

Your basic approach of removing dead wood and crossing branches is sound, I’d stick to doing only that initially. Since you have more than enough work ahead of you, my suggestion would be to do less trimming on each tree, and get to more trees.

Removing 30% of a tree’s leaf area is a lot in my opinion, and can set the tree back a bit. It’s likely to compensate by throwing off a lot of weak suckers, which require even more trimming and aren’t going to bear fruit for some time. If you can just open up the canopy a bit, so the sun gets deeper into the tree, I think that will enough to start with. Each year, you can fine tune your work a little more. Not to worry, you will never run out of tweaking to do. Seriously, Lucky you!

 

[chickenlittle]

What condition would you like to get to? What is your goal? 300 trees is a huge number to think about pruning every year. I did a pruning seminar at Cummins Nursery last year and they showed a lot of old trees they had rehabilitated from big overgrown trees back into a somewhat productive orchard. They use pole chain saws and lifts to do the pruning. Worked them back to a few main scaffold limbs within reach of a pole saw. Then they prune the growth from those scaffold limbs with the goal of cutting off the 3 year old wood each year. Now imagine doing that to 300 trees? I don't think so.

Apple trees bear on 2 year old wood. If it isn't being pruned, it keeps growing but each year it will just be a tiny bit at the tips of what is there already. They become spur bound. Removing dead wood is fine but doesn't really do anything. Crossing wood helps with air flow and light penetration and gives it a little hormonal prodding to grow but doesn't solve the main issue - no 2 year old wood. To reinvorgorate the tree, you really need to cut off that old growth wood and structure that is there and let new growth occur.

Considering how much work it would be to maintain, I would probably cut down every other tree or even more.

Photos posted on Cummins facebook page a couple weeks ago.

 

[Parker35]

Chicken little, you are right that 300 trees is alot to manage. Apples are a huge draw on our place and i would like to get them back to health but i dont have the time to prun them every year. If i got them to a managable size and shape i could probably get through 100 or so every year. Taking every other tree was something i considered but I cant seem to get myself to do that just yet.

My goals are really all around providing food for deer and making sure the trees are around for the next generation.

I do have access to a pole chain saw but not a bucket or lift. With the rehabed trees that you show above did they cut the trees back all in one year or did they cut them back over a several of years?

The other question i have looking at the picts above is the structue of the trees. Because most of the lower limbs on our trees died the remaining limbs are going straight to the sky. Do i have to cut just above where they branh out or can i cut lower and train new growth through future pruning?

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

I would start by pruning the trees in the areas that will improve your hunting the most. Perhaps prune one end for maximum fruit production and leave one section thick and wild to encourage daytime deer movement. Those old overgrown orchards are great hunting areas. 300 trees is a lot, so maybe start with trimming 50 or 100 for the first year or two and see how that goes. That looks like a cool property, I wish I had a bunch of old trees like that. How is the current hunting in that old orchard?

 

[chickenlittle]

I am sure Cummins did the major surgery in one year. Apple trees are tough. You can be aggressive chopping them back. They will push new buds and create more structure down where you want it. And while there might be lots of undesirable growth that comes with chopping them back, you can control that by coming through with a summer pruning in in June and July so the growth goes where you want it.

The more I look at your photos, the more sure I am that I would cut every other one down. If they weren't so close together, I think they (and you) would be a lot happier.

What a great problem to have.

 

[TMIL]

What a great problem to have.

That's exactly what I was thinking!

 

[Turkey Creek]

If you cut them back that hard you are going to begin a vicious cycle. They are going to sucker like crazy if they have any vigor in them. Then next year they are going to have to be pruned again and the following year again. Saw it first hand on a historic orchard that I am helping with reestablishing. I tried to convince the main orchard keeper that he needed to get out of that vicious, repetitive cycle, but that is all he has ever known. While it is correct that you need to have some 2yr old wood to begin increasing production, you need to be able to use that fruit production to calm the tree down and keep it from going balls to the wall with vegetative growth. As Chicklittle said I think I would consider cutting every other one down as well if you are wanting to focus on deer food.

 

[Parker35]

I would start by pruning the trees in the areas that will improve your hunting the most. Perhaps prune one end for maximum fruit production and leave one section thick and wild to encourage daytime deer movement. Those old overgrown orchards are great hunting areas. 300 trees is a lot, so maybe start with trimming 50 or 100 for the first year or two and see how that goes. That looks like a cool property, I wish I had a bunch of old trees like that. How is the current hunting in that old orchard?

The 300 trees are broken up into a big orchard near the house and a small orchard that is sorrounded by woods on 3 sides. The small orchard has about 100 trees. About 4 years ago I cut that orchard back the same way i am doing now to the big orchard this year. Apple product hasn't been great so im looking to the experts For help. the trees i cut do put on enough fruit to pull deer but certainly not what you would expect of a mature tree. With sunlight geting to the ground the weeds have exploded so daytime use is very good. I attached a couple picts of the small orchard.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I'm no orchard man or expert by any means. I CAN tell you that releasing 3 of our old apple trees ( 60 + years old ), and giving them sunlight and room has re-invigorated them. They now put on loads of blossoms and have fruited again. And we didn't fertilize them - just gave them light and room. Chickenlittle and Turkey Creek are on it with the cutting- some-down idea, I believe. We've seen what sunlight, air, & room can do first-hand. I learned THAT from guys on this forum. FWIW.

 

[sandbur]

If trees are not too close, why would you cut every other one down? (Maybe they were too close??)

Just don’t prune every other one.


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[SmallChunk]

I'm jealous, that looks like some fun work to tackle!!!

 

[chickenlittle]

I think they are too close so that is why i would consider thinning. I think the trees would then be more productive and healthy with less maintenance.

I might eventually need to do that in my orchard. I started with a well thought out 30ft spacing. Then wanted to try all these other varieties. I compromise adding a tree in between in each row. At 15x30ft spacing, I'm sure i can manage it fine with some pruning. But if i tire of that effort, I'll be willing to remove some.

 

[ruskbucks]

Hey guys, My winter project this year is saving our old apple orchard. This used to be a commercial orchard but the trees havent been pruned for 15-20 years. Over the years the trees have grown to be 25-30 feet tall and shaded out the bottoms to the point that many of the lower limbs have died.

The trees still leaf and flower in the tops but fruit production has been poor for the last4-5 years. Trimming these trees back to a reverse pyrimid shape probably isnt very realistic at this point.

To this point i have been going through and removing dead limbs and live limbs that are crossing or crowding the tree. I have read that you shouldnt cut more then 30% of the tree in one year so i feel like i am cutting as aggressively as i can this year.

We have roughly 300 trees in total and time is somewhat limited so this maybe a two year project.

I would love to know what you think of my approach here. If any of the apple experts have advise please share your thoughts.

The first picture is before cutting and the others are after.

Wow that's quite a find. A diamond in the rough. Looks like your doing a great job with it so far. It would be nice to see some pics of it coming along in the next few years. I have released some wild apple trees and they are now all producing apples from just pruning and cutting the trees around them to get sunlight in.

 

[Diesel5610]

Releasing old trees can be frustrating as well as rewarding. Sometimes it goes as planned and other times it seems like you are missing something. Be careful about moving too quickly and causing them to sucker excessively as TurkeyCreek mentioned, that is a bad cycle to get in. I did that years ago when I first started releasing old trees. A slow rehab is best and I have found that sunlight is the best thing you can do for old neglected trees. If they are in bad shape it is usually because they are not getting all the sunlight they should more than anything. Your trees look a bit crowded to me, but boy I am not sure I could cut every other one down either. I do think they would benefit from it unless the pictures are distorting the spacing. Look at the spacing between Cummins trees verses yours. Very cool problem you have.

 

[H20fwler]

Like everyone has said, what a cool problem to have. I also would thin them some, in the pics they do look closely planted.
I know I have a few of mine planted to close but I plan on cutting them back here and there as they get bigger to avoid any issues.

 

[JFK52]

"chickenlittle" Were the pruned branches removed from the drip line of the trees? Is this an "in progress" picture of the pruning?
When I do my pruning, all my branches and limbs go into the back of a pickup truck and over to my buddies house. He uses them for smoking and is thrilled to get them. He did a batch of smoked venison tenderloin and backstraps this year for me and they are absolutely mouth watering delicious.