Prescribed Burns - how to get started?

[momatt]

I had one get away from me. It was pretty cool out, say in the 40s, dead calm and seemed like the humidity was relatively high. I had about 5 acres of chest high grass/weeds. I had disced it up and grown a pumpkin patch and some summer food plots, cowpeas and stuff and it really got out of hand with weeds. This was in like February. I was going to burn a small chunk and disced in a break. There didn't seem to be any wind so I didn't think I could really back fire. The grass was kind of hard to get started with matches, I didn't have a drip torch. Fast forward 30 min, grass was burning like 8 foot high, jumped the fire break caught all 5 acres on fire. Fire was so big and hot that it made its own wind, it was like a fire tornado. I was terrified it was going to leave my property which was only about 40 acres with a lot of big cedars. Fire department came, I lost some implements. Caught the tires on fire on my plow and disc. Nearly lost my good tractor. I got a lecture from the chief for being an idiot. No charge no consequences. This was in rural central Missouri where you can do what you want. Now I'm in SW Missouri in the Ozarks and I have hundreds of acres of timber I'd love to have a slow burn run through but I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole now, lol.

The grass never came back so thick and lush, went from war zone to the green hills of Ireland in three weeks. It also killed a ton of rabbits and mice and birds and box turtles on the negative side.

 

[cavey]

I really got started in prescribed burns when I had to complete a couple for my CRP prairie grass contracts. That being said I am a career firefighter in a fairly rural part of NW Wisconsin. We are out of the DNR forest fire control area... I mention that as you may have different layers of restrictive controls, state and local to check on a "daily" basis for permission as spring conditions change (spring is the typical time to burn). You have the options of fall and winter burns to. I have been involved in both and if conditions are right a winter time burn can work well.
So my personal land owner start into burning was a pain in the butt. I was required to burn under my contract . The FSA office at the time "required" a "certified" plan be on file - a prescribed burn plan specifically. They could not provide me a list of "certified" plan writer's in the state and finding "legit" ones was an even bigger joke. I had a co worker in the same boat with the same County Ag office. In the end we both walked in the office and argued with them. They finally backed off on the certified plan requirement, would not officially give us permission to burn, but required it and how we did it was on our own accord. Which tells me a lot.

In the end I am guessing for the most part you are going to find that you are the land owner and you are ultimately responsible for the burn. Contact your local fire department for burning restrictions, make sure there are no state level permits or weather related burning restrictions (DNR).
Plan ahead, have the equipment and people you need to burn and contain lined up for multiple dates. Burn early if you have a fire department that jumps at putting fire bans on quickly in the spring (we had a chief that was jumpy at that (best time to burn is the driest)). Containment is everything and planned burns are not surprise burns so you should have cleared off and mowed or have bare dirt perimeters, knock down the grassy vegetation a fair distance in from the burn edge and your control stops that will reduce flame heights around the edges and aid in preventing jumps or toss over of embers. Wind is your best friend and enemy at the same time - never forget that and have a back up plan to switch up to when it changes direction and intensity. Know that that happens during the day at specific times as kind of a norm as well.
Burn aggressively to contain, but burn slow enough to get a good vegetation to the ground burn, anchor your fire and or burn it all in from your fire breaks dont burn out to them, be careful at the end when closing your fire lines as you will be turning that wind against you but you should be doing that at your fire break ahead of the flame getting to it (thats kind of situational) but you should always be in control of your line.
Free up one or more of you to chase spot fires once the smoke is up your going to lose full sight of your burn if its large enough, radio comms are a good thing if you can do it.

Its a fun thing to do if you do it right, never think you have it covered 100 percent dont let that fear prevent you from doing it but never lose that fear of it getting away from you. Be overly cautious on the front end and aggressively cautious during.

In the end I think you will be surprised at how little is actually "legally" required for you to do the burn. That being said NY is a world apart from WI. Contact your dnr and fsa offices they are often in direct contact with people who do burns and should have a ready answer for you. lol maybe that is ...

Good luck

 

[PatinPA]

I had one get away from me. It was pretty cool out, say in the 40s, deal calm and seemed like the humidity was relatively high. I had about 5 acres of chest high grass/weeds. I had disced it up and grown a pumpkin patch and some summer food plots, cowpeas and stuff and it really got out of hand with weeds. This was in like February. I was going to burn a small chunk and disced in a break. There didn't seem to be any wind so I didn't think I could really back fire. The grass was kind of hard to get started with matches, I didn't have a drip torch. Fast forward 30 min, grass was burning like 8 foot high, jumped the fire break caught all 5 acres on fire. Fire was so big and hot that it made its own wind, it was like a fire tornado. I was terrified it was going to leave my property which was only about 40 acres with a lot of big cedars. Fire department came, I lost some implements. Caught the tires on fire on my plow and disc. Nearly lost my good tractor. I got a lecture from the chief for being an idiot. No charge no consequences. This was in rural central Missouri where you can do what you want. Now I'm in SW Missouri in the Ozarks and I have hundreds of acres of timber I'd love to have a slow burn run through but I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole now, lol.

The grass never came back so thick and lush, went from war zone to the green hills of Ireland in three weeks. It also killed a ton of rabbits and mice and birds and box turtles on the negative side.

I had fire jump out of a burn barrel and burned a 10 ft circle around it. That terrified me and it was still winter with a little bit of snow here and there. Stepped in over my boots in the creek filling up a 5 gal bucket. I was a mess for that so I am in no way going to try a controlled burn through the woods.

 

[hesseu]

Here where I am, March is a good time to burn once spring green up starts...You can / should use the green as a firebreak. We had a 15 acre filed of NWSG going last march...hit a couple spots and the flames were 6-8 ft high...once it hit the green fire break, it was incredible as it just died. I like a minimum of a 10ft break if all possible for grass fields. Woods can be a little less since, at least where we are at, it's mud as your break if you blow / rake your break in.

 

[WeedyJ]

I was a WIMP the first time I burned. It was a 1 acre patch with a slope and dead vegetation I had sprayed. I had 10 ft breaks around it as a square and ran 2 breaks across it, effectively giving me 3 sections of 1/3 acre. I started at the top of the hill, burning the first 4 feet and working it downhill, giving me a good char line to add to my top break width. Then I went slightly downhill and lit along the edge so it would burn in and up to the char line. Once the top section was burned, I had established a large break, and started the next section at the downhill side. Did the same with the last section as well. Had some big fire occasionally but, the large char area kept it safe on the ground anyway. Also let the bunnies escape.

 

[MRBB]

I will add this just to anyone that cares , HAHA!
another thing I have done to get some burns in with almost zero worry of it going else where, is, on some of my fields I wanted to burn, , I would plow the snow off the area's when snow was down,
if weather works , a few sunny days afterwards would dry the area's out from moisture being absorbed from low temps and a little sunshine
come back when dry and Burn the plowed area's, having snow all over sort of works to prevent anything else from going up in smoke

not feasible for forested area's
but I did a lot of fields this way,
some times I will admit I had to come back and burn again,a s the heat from the fire would melt some places allowing me more to burn, or some snow/wet area's would forum and not burn, but would dry out in time and could burn when so!

its just another option to use if one wanted too and has means?
food for thought maybe?

 

[bigbendmarine]

In the same boat as OP, as I'd like to start doing prescribed burns.

In my county in Florida it's thankfully quite common, and with vast tracts of pine forests (including neighboring plantations) doing regular burns.

While I haven't yet tried my hand at it intentionally, I have had a few scares simply burning paper trash, limbs and logs (allowed in my rural county as long as not red flag conditions and size kept to 8' wide diameter."

Scariest event was when I left wife watching some limbs and logs burning while I ran a quick errand. She said she only took her attention from the burn pile a minute or two while caring for our daughter to turn back and see a line of grass burning. She tried putting it out, but she could only put a portion out and soon as she tried moving she said that some of the spots she thought she had out were re-igniting. When she called me I was actually only about 10 mins from being home but she was out of breath, sounded EXTREMELY panicked, and it was darn near impossible for me to get a feeling for the scope of fire she was fighting. My mind raced to picturing fire covering our acreage, threatening our home, and making it to neighboring properties. Got home and thankfully the wind was light enough that the fire was moving at a manageable speed and between the two of us we got it put out. It burned several decent sized patches across one of our pastures, and man did those patches turn uber-green quickly.

Other experience I had was more frustrating than scary... when we moved to our place the prior owners had pushed together a few HUGE diameter live oak stumps. After looking at them a year or two, I decided to push them together close and burn them. Getting them going wasn't a problem, but God Bless those things burned HOT and were darn near impossible to put out with a garden hose... the burning logs just seemed to eat and laugh at the water I fed them, shooting sparks out regularly while burning as well. Had to put out several small fires the sparks triggered and also had to put out / relight the logs several times over the span of a week or two. Proved a much bigger PITA than I expected, and made me appreciate why the prior owners had just moved them to a spot but without burning them. LOL!

 

[yoderjac]

Hello,

I am very interested in using prescribed fire for helping to manage small sections of my property in upstate NY. There appear to be a number of restrictions associated with prescribed burns in NY and, while I've done some research on how to conduct burns in a lawful manner, I've started to hit some dead ends. For those of you who are well versed in prescribed fire, I'd be very interested to hear how you got started with this management tool in the hopes that maybe it will give me some ideas on how to go about doing things.

Any information you all can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your help!

Anthony

In our state, except during burn bans, there are no legal restrictions on conducting a burn. Of course, if the fire gets out of control, there can be criminal negligence involved. So, from my perspective, it is foolish to do any sizeable burn without a certified prescribed burner. Here, this removes any criminal liability. Of course, if a fire does get out of control and damages the property of others, you are still civilly liable for the damages.

Having said that, fire is a great tool when done properly. I'm still a novice at it, but I hope to take the prescribed burner class when I retire and have time. It is offered through our state forestry department.

Here is how we got started. We got into a USDA EQIP program that provided cost sharing for a plan that included firebreaks, herbicide application for some clear cuts and controlled burns. With no experience at all, we hired out for all these tasks. We pretty much broke even financially as the contractors charged us roughly what USDA paid. The prescribed burner we hired was kind enough to use me as free labor on the burn crew in exchange for the experience. It was a really good experience. He had a small dozer that he use in a few spots where he had some concerns. We burned about 20 acres of clear-cuts and 100 acres of pines in one day. He also provided all the equipment, drip torches, water tanks, flappers, rakes, and such. He only had 3 other folks on his crew.

When the clear-cuts needed burned again several years later, we did something different. One of my partners is friends with one of our DWR biologists who is a certified prescribed burner and has had probably more experience with fire than anyone in the state. We hired him to do our burn plan and oversee the burn, and we provided the labor and much of the tools. We hooked sprayers up to our tractors and ATVs. Our external breaks on this clear-cut were pretty good. There was lot of broomsedge in it. We had divided this 10 acre clear-cut into 2 sections with a firebreak between them . We did not have a disk, but we kept the middle break mowed pretty good. We had no dozer or heavy equipment on sight which is a big part of the cost. We attempted to burn 5 acres. The fire did jump the internal fire break, but the prescribed burner recognized the situation quickly and put his backup plan into action. We ended up burning all 10 acres, but had no issue of the fire escaping.

Burning an open field as you see in the pics in one of the previous posts is probably the easiest burn to conduct. Everyone can see each other and you can see the entire burn area. Burning clear-cuts or pines in varying terrain is much more challenging. Knowing where everyone is located and communications is a very important safety precaution.

The next time we burned, we decided to try a growing season burn on another clear-cut. It had grown up with a lot of saplings to the point that there was not much broomsedge to carry fire and growing season burns are tougher to conduct but they can be safer. By this time we had purchased our own heavy fire disk and used it to refresh the fire breaks on this other clear cut. We hired the same prescribed burner. One problem with a growing season burn is the timing has to be just right and predicting the weather for more than a few days is a challenge. You almost need to have a crew of labor on standby for a last minute go-no-go decision. On this burn, we had a hard time getting fire to carry. It did eventually, and I think we did some good, but we plan to revisit the site in Feb to see if we got enough with the growing season burn or if it needs to be burned again. We had USDA money for this burn and we will probably end up making money for our labor as the cost of the prescribed burner without heavy equipment was much less.

Fire has been a great habitat tool for us and we plan to continue to use it. That's how we got started. USDA helped us find our first contractors and we are now doing much more on our own. I can't help you with NY, as the laws and resources may be different.

Best of luck,

Jack

 

[buckdeer1]

As a fire chief for a rural department we fight alot of wildland fires with the biggest topping 400K acres.Luckily we only had to fight multiple smaller fires.The biggest thing is to alway have what I call an oh sh**t spot to where if it gets past my regular fire break I have another spot to stop it.Reduce fuel, reduce heat or remove oxygen are the only 3 ways to stop a fire.I have two tanks with pumps on my utv. Also I mow a couple rows next to fire break so fire is lower approaching fire break.I also use a hay rake to to move the thatch off fire break.I also like to mow fire breaks anytime from now until end of jan.I want these areas to be first to green up and in fact keep some mowed all year long

 

[Nightvision]

Georgia is very liberal where burning is concerned.
Call the 800 burn line, tell them your name and address, and you want a burn permit. They’ll give you the permit number and tell you the fire needs to be put by dark.

There are certain times of the year where they will not give out residential burn permits but farmers can get them anytime. A buddy will soon be dropping a match on a 150 acre two year old clear cut. Bet you’ll be able to see that from space. Going to be a doozy.

 

[yoderjac]

Georgia is very liberal where burning is concerned.
Call the 800 burn line, tell them your name and address, and you want a burn permit. They’ll give you the permit number and tell you the fire needs to be put by dark.

There are certain times of the year where they will not give out residential burn permits but farmers can get them anytime. A buddy will soon be dropping a match on a 150 acre two year old clear cut. Bet you’ll be able to see that from space. Going to be a doozy.

Just keep in mind that there is a big difference between getting permission, if it is required in your state, and conducting a safe and effective prescribed burn. There are lots of considerations:

- If wind speed is not right, you may not be able to carry fire, or it could easily get out of control.
- If wind direction is not right, depending on location, you could cover a highway or retirement home with smoke creating dangerous conditions.
- If moisture content is not right, you won't even be able to carry fire using a backpack blower, or the fire could easily get out of control.
- Burning fields, clear-cuts, hardwoods, and pine stands can all be a little different.
- Terrain, thermals, fire creating its own wind, ... considerations abound.
- As others mentioned, having backup plans are really important.

Having the right mix of technical knowledge and experience is really important.

Fire is like a kid with a firearm, you can't be afraid of it, and you need to treat it with a healthy respect

Thanks,

Jack

 

[escpen]

I spoke with a woman from the NRCS office in the county where my land is located. She acknowledged that prescribed burning is one of the tools promoted by the NRCS as a whole but noted that a) none of their employees in NY are trained in that area and b) the DEC will not approve burn plans for use on private lands due to the associated liability.

Looks like prescribes fire is one tool that I can likely cross off the list. I have one last avenue to pursue - an acquaintance from high school was the burn manager for a rather large DEC burn a year ago. He is also a DEC forest ranger. I will try to pick his brain to see what my options are.

Thank you all for your help and insight!


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[ajtxwi]

take a class, learn about humidity, wind, back fires, head fires, insurance, black lines and fire breaks. in the class, you will learn how to do it, when to do it and when not to do it. you will also learn some of the legalities in your area (if not, you will meet people who you might be able to folllow up with to get the information you need. We just took a class last weekend and learning a lot about all of the above. I do not know enough to give advice, but the class is helping us get started with the option to consider prescribed fire. There is also the option to hire a pro.

 

[MRBB]

I would agaimn maybe just try piling up brush and burning when safe(s like when good snow is on the ground to prevent possible spreading! that or light mild rains)
as honestly if your goal or one of them is to get rid of a lot of branches, this is the more efficient way, as a controlled burn normally won
't get rid of many of them any how, as it takes too long for them to burn up, and most prescribed burns happen pretty fast covering ground!

and DON"T call it a controlled burn, if you do pile things up and burn them, just call it burning a brush pile, some times the words matter!

I know a several builders up in NY that have no problems with state or locals burning piled up tree's and such when building sites get cleared,
but again they are NOT calling them prescribed burns or likes


and I again would maybe suggest talking to your local fire dept
many times they an help you with a small fire, as they do train often and it adds a level of peace of mind if you do burn

 

[escpen]

My main purpose for considering this tool is for knocking back invasive species like autumn olive, bush honeysuckle, and multi flora rose. I’d rather not cut and pile it up as that will be a ton of work, but I’m not opposed to doing that work if that’s the best option.

Would love to take a class but don’t know where I can find one locally. Maybe something available in PA?


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[MRBB]

what about just renting a good forester mulcher and run it over the things you want gone?
then go in and spray the roots to get things to die, other wise it will just come back again
even if you burn that stuff it won't kill it off, and odds are it might even make it grow back stronger as the post ash from the fire residue will help it come back!@

so, maybe have a look into what rentals are in your area, or companys that do the service for a fee!

 

[escpen]

what about just renting a good forester mulcher and run it over the things you want gone?

That might work for a portion of the property. A good bit of the ground in question is fairly thick with more desirable stems but there is a lot of autumn olive mixed in. May need more of a scalpel approach in most areas.


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[ajtxwi]

That might work for a portion of the property. A good bit of the ground in question is fairly thick with more desirable stems but there is a lot of autumn olive mixed in. May need more of a scalpel approach in most areas.


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we have a lot of autumn olive that we are thinking about doing something with too. I dug one up by hand (too much work). Forester suggested cutting them down to ground level and then spraying herbicide on the stumps. out in the open areas, we only have a bit and this technique might be too bad. it is a bit more dense up in the woodland hill areas and this could be a lot of work. Not sure how we will handle those areas as getting mechanical equipment there will be tough and not sure if burning is an option. if you come up with other ideas, would be interested in learning from your success (or not).

 

[MRBB]

we have a lot of autumn olive that we are thinking about doing something with too. I dug one up by hand (too much work). Forester suggested cutting them down to ground level and then spraying herbicide on the stumps. out in the open areas, we only have a bit and this technique might be too bad. it is a bit more dense up in the woodland hill areas and this could be a lot of work. Not sure how we will handle those areas as getting mechanical equipment there will be tough and not sure if burning is an option. if you come up with other ideas, would be interested in learning from your success (or not).I hear you ain't always so easy to get rid of one thing and save another

I would still maybe try and get a skid steer in with a cutting head into the sections you can, it gets a LOT of work done without killing your back, the rest??
yrs back I would have suggested maybe try and find some younger kids willing to work, and hire them to do selective trimming for you ( I used to spray paint things i wanted cut and removed and had kids do work for c ash)

but these day's, kids don;t like doing manual labor much and if they did the costs wouldn;t be any cheaper than hiring a professional to do it, sadly, kids ain;'t the same as they once were in most places any how, too many spoiled one if you ask me!
that said, if you don't have maybe invest in a good brush trimmer, and use that to be more selective
time consuming, cutting and stacking, but will help get rid of a bunch, but key on many of the things you want gone will be following up on cuttings with spraying before they make new berry's and seeds
as that's the killer on them things, birds eat em and crap em out all over making things spread

took me several yrs to get a 20 acres section working alone, but in the end I was very happy I spent the time stacking and burning piles
in winter time with snow down I will admit I did get a little help now and then from my sisters smaller kids, as I would let them have cook outs in the snow which helped lure them into some work , plus kids seemed to like building fires and adding wood to them L, would; even try and get them a l;ittle extra motivated by making games of it, as to who could build the biggest pile and such, LOL
but kids will be kids, enthusiasm doesn't last all day long that's for sure, but hey, they had fun and I got some help, so win win, got to take them as they come some times!

AT hunting camp, we make it more of a work deal, where members HAVE to put in X amount of time, in order to hunt the following yr, so that works too maybe if you let others hunt your land!
but could be some idea's for you on how to get some help!

 

[Bill]

It also killed a ton of rabbits and mice and birds and box turtles on the negative side.

yeah I torched some mice once. I had no clue how many mice there were per acre until they all started screaming....