Persimmon and browse?

[Catscratch]

Getting ready to plant persimmons. Will deer eat them or are they ok un-caged? I intend to window screen them as my rabbits snip EVERYTHING off, deer might be more selective though... What says you guys that have persimmons growing on your place; cage or not needed?

 

[willy]

I haven't seen deer browse evidence on my persimmons but they are behind wire. However I would suspect bucks will not discriminate persimmons from others for a rubbing tree. I'd protect with wire regardless if deer browse them or not.

 

[yoderjac]

Getting ready to plant persimmons. Will deer eat them or are they ok un-caged? I intend to window screen them as my rabbits snip EVERYTHING off, deer might be more selective though... What says you guys that have persimmons growing on your place; cage or not needed?

Persimmons grow wild at my place and perhaps that is why I don't see any browsing impact on persimmons. They are one tree I don't protect (along with pawpaw). The only persimmons I've protected are some Nikita's Gift hybrid persimmons since I did not know if deer would related differently because of the Kaki part. These tend to be bush like by nature anyway and I left some unprotected and tubed others. It turns out I didn't need to bother tubing them. I posted a picture a while back on another thread when a similar picture was posed. It is a picture of an untouched Nikita's Gift persimmon next to a severely browsed poke berry bush.

Having said that, deer relate to trees based on the total habitat picture. I don't doubt folks who say their persimmons are browsed by deer.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Catscratch]

I haven't seen deer browse evidence on my persimmons but they are behind wire. However I would suspect bucks will not discriminate persimmons from others for a rubbing tree. I'd protect with wire regardless if deer browse them or not.

I was thinking the same but wasnt' sure. Deer greatly prefer to rub cedar here but that doesn't meant they won't attack anything that's in the open.

 

[Catscratch]

Persimmons grow wild at my place and perhaps that is why I don't see any browsing impact on persimmons. They are one tree I don't protect (along with pawpaw). The only persimmons I've protected are some Nikita's Gift hybrid persimmons since I did not know if deer would related differently because of the Kaki part. These tend to be bush like by nature anyway and I left some unprotected and tubed others. It turns out I didn't need to bother tubing them. I posted a picture a while back on another thread when a similar picture was posed. It is a picture of an untouched Nikita's Gift persimmon next to a severely browsed poke berry bush.

Having said that, deer relate to trees based on the total habitat picture. I don't doubt folks who say their persimmons are browsed by deer.

Thanks,

Jack

I'm afraid that since I don't have native persimmon and they are new, that they will draw interest (interest that common to the area trees don't invite).

 

[willy]

I hear you on something new for them to check out. They aren't native to my immediate area but to my state's region. I just cage any tree I'm going to plant as initially I didn't and learned the hard way that was not possible on my farm.

 

[Prof.Kent]

There are no persimmon trees around my area. That being said, deer will browse on persimmon. Deer will browse on anything and everything. Deer are evil incarnate. Protect your trees.

 

[yoderjac]

I'm afraid that since I don't have native persimmon and they are new, that they will draw interest (interest that common to the area trees don't invite).

Yes, they might and pretty much any browse that gets fertilized (on purpose or incidentally) gets more attention than things that don't. I guess that is the concept behind the "mineral stumps" MSU describes. I guess since I used the mineral word, I should be clear. These are not mineral supplements but simply cutting down a mature deciduous tree and allowing the stump to sprout. Because of the large root system and ratio between the roots to leaves, the leaves become much more nutritious and are targeted by deer.

You didn't mention what they were. If they are expensive grafted trees, I'd tube or cage them as you see fit. If they are inexpensive seedling from a state nursery that you are planting in volume, I'd just see how deer react. They are certainly not a preferred browse species. You will probably want to wait a few years to bark graft them anyway. If you find deer are nipping the central leader you can always tube them after the fact.

In general, I'd treat a few expensive trees planted for attraction differently than trees planted for volume.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[NE PA QDM]

I planted 50 a few years ago.
Caged 25 and left the other 25 unprotected. After less than one growing season the unprotected persimmon were almost completely demolished. Deer browse them pretty hard in our woods.

 

[Catscratch]

They are cheap forestry seedlings and I'm planting in volume. I just want these to get a mass planting started and maybe have a selection to graft to (or maybe just good producing natives) a few yrs down the road.

I have a couple of grafted varieties on order that will certainly get the full treatment in protection.

From your responses it seems that in some places they get browsed, and in some they don't. But to be certain Prof.Kent's line "Deer are evil incarnate. Protect your trees." has been my experience to the fullest.

Thanks to your replies I will probably test my luck on some of them and cage what I can/have time for.

 

[ksgobbler]

They killed my buddies that were planted south of Olpe catscratch. All mine survived in tubes (that fire didn’t get)

 

[Catscratch]

They killed my buddies that were planted south of Olpe catscratch. All mine survived in tubes (that fire didn’t get)

Good to know!

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[yoderjac]

So much depends on the locality. I'm far enough south, in zone 7a, that the amount of time deer are on browse verses herbaceous growth is relatively short. Their digestive system actually adjusts each year. We also have plenty of native trees of all kinds to browse and persimmons are pretty low on the preferred list. However, deer will eat almost any tree under the right circumstances. In my case, if I plant a favored browse species like chestnuts in thinned pines or along a roadside, they get very little if any browse pressure. On the other hand, if I plant the same trees in a clover field, the central leaders are browsed if not protected and they all become bushes. Deer come and feed in the clover and it is just their nature to take a bite of something when they walk by.

If you are planting a large volume of persimmon seedlings in relatively close proximity (verses clusters here and there), it may be lower cost to temporarily install an Gallagher-style fence around the entire perimeter rather than protecting individual trees.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Catscratch]

E-fencing isn't going to work. They will be planted in small pockets spread out over several acres.

 

[yoderjac]

Let us know what you decide and how your deer react.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Catscratch]

Got them planted, watered, and screened. Not enough time (KU is playing) to lumite or cage them today but, screening them full height will buy me some time to get that done later.

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[Catscratch]

Got over 1in of rain last night (it's been really dry and windy)! Couldn't have timed it better with this planting. :)

 

[Hoytvectrix]

@Catscratch, how have your persimmons faired with just the screen?

I am going to be planting some with and without tubes on one property with average deer density in Northern MO and am wondering what I should expect. On our other property we have only every tubed these seedling persimmons. Granted, they are 5 foot tubes but I have never seen browse when they grow out of the tube. We have yet to find a wild or native persimmon tree in the area, but I am sure they are around.

 

[Catscratch]

@Catscratch, how have your persimmons faired with just the screen?

I am going to be planting some with and without tubes on one property with average deer density in Northern MO and am wondering what I should expect. On our other property we have only every tubed these seedling persimmons. Granted, they are 5 foot tubes but I have never seen browse when they grow out of the tube. We have yet to find a wild or native persimmon tree in the area, but I am sure they are around.

They've done fine. I had planted seedlings from Kansas Forestry. Put window screen on all of them and cages on half of them. Most of the caged ones have outgrown the uncaged, but browsing isn't apparent. I don't think any of them have died. They are growing slow! Hopefully they pick up in the next year or two.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

They've done fine. I had planted seedlings from Kansas Forestry. Put window screen on all of them and cages on half of them. Most of the caged ones have outgrown the uncaged, but browsing isn't apparent. I don't think any of them have died. They are growing slow! Hopefully they pick up in the next year or two.

Thanks for the feedback. Ours have always been from Missouri Conservation. Typically they are almost at the top of a 5 ft tree tube within the first year. They seem to woody up in year two and then put on more length in year 3. I have 50 more seedlings coming for two farms and I wanted to see if I could get by without tubing some. I'll try and see and report back. Thanks again.