Pecans for deer - Transferred from QDMA Forums

[yoderjac]

Here is a link to William Reid’s pecan blog. He is the research director at Kansas State's Pecan Experiment Field near Chetopa, Kansas.
http://northernpecans.blogspot.com/2011/11/oh-deer.html
It has lots of information on grafting, pruning and tree care. While his blog is all about pecans some of the advice could be transferable to other hardwood trees. He also documents deer use of pecan nuts.
I have planted a couple of grafted pecans on the Tickranch for my own benefit and didn’t think about deer at the time. However, if the deer are going to use them, I may start a few more.
A question for those of you with pecan trees: Do you find pecan nuts a favored food source for deer in your area?

Tick,
I looked around trying to answer the same question. I could not find anyone who suggested they saw significant use. I hope you get some positive responses. From what I understand, pecans can be grafted to hickory. I have a lot of native hickory that I could use for rootstock. So far, I have not found enough evidence of significant deer use to justify pursuing this further yet.
Thanks,
Jack

I used to hunt river bottoms that were loaded with pecan trees. Never saw deer eating them.

We used to have a big pecan tree that sat about 30 yards out in a field and the deer would come feed on them at certain times,we shot several out of that tree.But it wasn't an every night type event

Lots of pecan orchards and random trees on my in-laws farms. I have not noticed any use at all.

We have quite a few wild pecans growing, but I have NEVER noticed deer eating them...BB

Heck with the deer! I want to plant some for my own enjoyment!!!!!
God I love pEcan pie(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

Virtually zero use at my place. In fact, I've torn out nearly two thirds (10 acres) of existing pecan orchards at my farm in order to plant more deer friendly crops/habitat. I certainly wouldn't have incurred those expenses if I noticed reasonable usage.

Deer use them heavily in the Mississippi delta, but the key is they must be sweet pecan. Bitter pecan is whole other spices the different timber value and fruit. Bitter pecan is basically worthless for deer.

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Originally Posted by longleaf
Deer use them heavily in the Mississippi delta, but the key is they must be sweet pecan. Bitter pecan is whole other spices the different timber value and fruit. Bitter pecan is basically worthless for deer.
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Maybe we are narrowing in on something here. I have heard a few (very few) reports of deer just loving them but lots of reports of deer ignoring them. I know different varieties have different shell thicknesses. I was thinking perhaps shell thickness had something to do with it.
Can you talk about which varieties are sweet and which are bitter?
Thanks,
Jack

I apologize for my last post, I should have proof read before posting!
Here in Mississippi, you will find a native pecan (Carya illinoensis) that produces excellent timber and a sweet fruit. Deer will eat these. This tree is found on moist, but well drained ridges in river bottoms.
We also have bitter pecan (Carya aquatica). This tree grows in very wet areas, has a bitter fruit, and the wood quality is poor. It is almost worthless here. Deer do not eat them.
The two trees are almost identical in appearance. The fruit have a different appearance and are easily identified.

I have hundreds of wild pecan trees on my duck club. The nuts are small compared to "commercial" varieties but taste great. The deer use them somewhat, perhaps looking more for scraps from raccoons and squirrels than crunching the whole nut. They do not browse the foliage.

squirrels yes, but I have never seen a deer feeding under pecan trees, and almost every property I ever hunted had them on them or close by. I would not plant pecans for deer, but as part of a general wildlife improvement plan (and/or for personal use) sure, why not?

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Originally Posted by Tickrancher
Here is a link to William Reid’s pecan blog. He is the research director at Kansas State's Pecan Experiment Field near Chetopa, Kansas.
http://northernpecans.blogspot.com/2011/11/oh-deer.html
It has lots of information on grafting, pruning and tree care. While his blog is all about pecans some of the advice could be transferable to other hardwood trees. He also documents deer use of pecan nuts.
I have planted a couple of grafted pecans on the Tickranch for my own benefit and didn’t think about deer at the time. However, if the deer are going to use them, I may start a few more.
A question for those of you with pecan trees: Do you find pecan nuts a favored food source for deer in your area?
==================================
Tick,
I'm glad you started this thread. It looks like I'm going to give it a go! I had a chat with the old grafter that I'm working with for native American persimmons. He grafts a lot of other stuff besides persimmons for wildlife. He has about 80 acres of pecans and says the deer just hammer them. He offered to send me some scions from one of his favorite varieties and I took him up on it.
I don't have any native pecan trees, but we do have some hickory trees. As I understand it, you can graft pecan to hickory. He says the same bark graft I've been using with the persimmons will work well with pecans. So, I hope to give it a go this spring.
I'll report back as things progress.
Thanks,
Jack

when i was a kid my dad and his BF grafted some pecans onto hickory trees. Those were bark grafted and he used a very small nail to firmly attach the scion to the tree.
Have fun but don't get too excited about deer eating pecans. I have more pecan trees than I can count on my property. I'm cutting some down to make room for more "deer" friendly trees. I have never seen a deer eat a pecan and I have a several that are right in the middle of my clover plot that produce a good abundance of pecan almost every year. The squirrels love them as well as the crows but not the deer. They are native and kinda small but and taste wonderful but the deer never touch them.
good luck
todd

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Originally Posted by dogdoc
when i was a kid my dad and his BF grafted some pecans onto hickory trees. Those were bark grafted and he used a very small nail to firmly attach the scion to the tree.
Have fun but don't get too excited about deer eating pecans. I have more pecan trees than I can count on my property. I'm cutting some down to make room for more "deer" friendly trees. I have never seen a deer eat a pecan and I have a several that are right in the middle of my clover plot that produce a good abundance of pecan almost every year. The squirrels love them as well as the crows but not the deer. They are native and kinda small but and taste wonderful but the deer never touch them.
good luck
todd
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Well if these Kanza pecans work out for me, I'll be able to send you some scions to graft to your native pecans. By the way, I've seen that bark grafting technique with nails. I'm not sure if I'll use it or not.
Thanks,
Jack.

 

[yoderjac]

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Originally Posted by KS_Bowhunter
Virtually zero use at my place. In fact, I've torn out nearly two thirds (10 acres) of existing pecan orchards at my farm in order to plant more deer friendly crops/habitat. I certainly wouldn't have incurred those expenses if I noticed reasonable usage.
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Yours never produced any nuts anyway. (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
We have lots of native pecans on my place I don't see much use at all. I do have one where a scrape is established every year. Squirrels ravage them though.

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Originally Posted by jselsor
Heck with the deer! I want to plant some for my own enjoyment!!!!!
God I love pEcan pie(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
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No kiddin! Really like to know if they could be grafted to hickory.

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Originally Posted by THE, LLC
No kiddin! Really like to know if they could be grafted to hickory.
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yes they can!
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Pecan and hickory are closely related trees, making them a good match biologically for grafting. Not only are they related, but pecan actually is a species within the hickory genus, called Carya. The genus Carya includes a dozen species of trees within the United States, including pecans (Carya apocarya). A number of trees are called "hickory" in common language, and all can be intermingled for grafting purposes. The shagbark (Carya ovata) and shellbark (Carya laciniosa) hickories perhaps are the most common in the United States and are hardy in U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) hardiness zones 4 through 8. The pecan is not as hardy as the common hickory trees, but can tolerate more heat, making it perfect for USDA zones 6 to 9.
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I used to work on a cattle farm here in Georgia that had pecan orchards. Deer were constantly in them especially first thing in the morning. This was the hottest area on the 2400 acre farm.

 

[yoderjac]

I think deer shy away from them because of that bitter, tannin-filled crap between the halves. That stuff SUCKS!!!

Well, we won't know for a few years how my deer respond to them, but the experiment is underway:

Thanks,
Jack

congrats on the pecan grafts. I'm going out saturday to check mine. Hope I have the success you did.
todd

I like this thread so far. I planted some native pecan on my farm this spring because I have none as far as I know. There are many in this area, but none on my farm. My first hunting experiences was squirrel hunting with my dad. He always said, if you can find some pecan trees , you've found a squirrel honey hole. Someday my son will be able to take his son or daughter to the pecan patch to hunt squirrels. I also like pecan pie.

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Originally Posted by jlc904
I like this thread so far. I planted some native pecan on my farm this spring because I have none as far as I know. There are many in this area, but none on my farm. My first hunting experiences was squirrel hunting with my dad. He always said, if you can find some pecan trees , you've found a squirrel honey hole. Someday my son will be able to take his son or daughter to the pecan patch to hunt squirrels. I also like pecan pie.
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Squirrels are about the only thing that uses my Hickory nuts. I think it is because they are so hard to crack I'm hoping more wildlife including deer will use the thin shelled commercial grade pecans.
Around here the squirrels prefer acorns, but any time we have an acorn crop failure, every squirrel in the area heads for hickory trees!

Around here we have small native pecans that are a) small, b) THICK shelled, and c) sweet as sugar with very little bitterness or tannins.
Then there are various thin shelled varieties that are a) large, b) thin shelled, and c) not as sweet and have a lot more bitter "stuff" between the meats.
Then of course all sorts of varieties in between with varying qualities.
I wonder if the difference in usage reported by people is due to deer preferring one quality (size, shell thickness, taste) over another?

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Originally Posted by TrademarkTexan
Around here we have small native pecans that are a) small, b) THICK shelled, and c) sweet as sugar with very little bitterness or tannins.
Then there are various thin shelled varieties that are a) large, b) thin shelled, and c) not as sweet and have a lot more bitter "stuff" between the meats.
Then of course all sorts of varieties in between with varying qualities.
I wonder if the difference in usage reported by people is due to deer preferring one quality (size, shell thickness, taste) over another?
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I came to the same conclusion. The divergence of observation as to deer use is extreme.
The reason I decided to give this a try is because the guy who sent me the scions talks about heavy deer use. So I'm hoping they use this particular variety. Time will tell...

I have two that I planted 6 years ago that haven't grown much. At what age does nut production begin?
BE AWARE that Pecan trees produce JUGLONE, so plant them away from pine and fruit trees.

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Originally Posted by brushpile
I have two that I planted 6 years ago that haven't grown much. At what age does nut production begin?
BE AWARE that Pecan trees produce JUGLONE, so plant them away from pine and fruit trees.
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I have not planted any. All of mine were bark grafts on to existing native hickory rootstock. Tickrancher has shown examples of persimmon producing first fruits in the 3rd leaf after grafting. I found a similar reference for pecans here: <http://northernpecans.blogspot.com/2...uncovered.html
I'm not sure if this will apply when grafted to hickory or not.
Thanks,
Jack

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Originally Posted by yoderj@cox.net
I have not planted any. All of mine were bark grafts on to existing native hickory rootstock. Tickrancher has shown examples of persimmon producing first fruits in the 3rd leaf after grafting. I found a similar reference for pecans here: <http://northernpecans.blogspot.com/2...uncovered.html
I'm not sure if this will apply when grafted to hickory or not.
Thanks,
Jack
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I am kind of unsure about deer eating pecans but I do remember a few times seeing them in the orchards and being told that deer and turkeys loved them. I wonder if they were eating a certain type of pecans because we have lots around here and haven't really noticed much activity.
If anybody knows for sure,I would like to find some of those scions.

I'm surprised by the responses of not seeing use by the deer. Most of the pecan trees on our farm are grafted and were planted in the 60's, but as soon as the acorns are gone the deer use them pretty regularly.
It's fun listening to them eat pecans, you can hear them cracking from 100 yards away.(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

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Originally Posted by DavidinBama
I am kind of unsure about deer eating pecans but I do remember a few times seeing them in the orchards and being told that deer and turkeys loved them. I wonder if they were eating a certain type of pecans because we have lots around here and haven't really noticed much activity.
If anybody knows for sure,I would like to find some of those scions.
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I don't know for sure. The old guy who has been grafting for wildlife for over 30 years tells me that his deer just love his pecans. He sent me a few scions to try this year. The variety he recommend to my was Kanza. I'm not sure if this is because he found them the most attractive or because they are blight resistant. He did say they worked the best for him.
I decided that if I was going to give this a go, I wanted to do it in large enough volume to draw valid conclusions. So I found a place where I could get more scions: <http://www.hoffmanpecanfarm.com/
I don't know if it is too late for them to sell you scions or not. By the way, pecans require a pollination partner. They have charts that show the options, but I chose Pawnee as a partner for Kanza.
Good Luck,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Quote:
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Originally Posted by yoderj@cox.net
I don't know for sure. The old guy who has been grafting for wildlife for over 30 years tells me that his deer just love his pecans. He sent me a few scions to try this year. The variety he recommend to my was Kanza. I'm not sure if this is because he found them the most attractive or because they are blight resistant. He did say they worked the best for him.
I decided that if I was going to give this a go, I wanted to do it in large enough volume to draw valid conclusions. So I found a place where I could get more scions: <http://www.hoffmanpecanfarm.com/
I don't know if it is too late for them to sell you scions or not. By the way, pecans require a pollination partner. They have charts that show the options, but I chose Pawnee as a partner for Kanza.
Good Luck,
Jack
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I'll probably wait til next year on the pecans, I may try that variety,I'm going to try and research what nuts do well here and see if I can find somebody who sees deer eating them! Are those two varieties thin shelled,I feel like that may be an issue with deer but maybe not.
I didn't know pecans needed a pollinator. We have a few seedlings growing in the woods by themselves and they produce nuts, maybe they would do better if they had companions.
All these pecans around here and I never heard that. Shows what I know!
I probably need to focus on some other stuff around here, this grafting thing gets addicting!

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Originally Posted by MDuffy
I'm surprised by the responses of not seeing use by the deer. Most of the pecan trees on our farm are grafted and were planted in the 60's, but as soon as the acorns are gone the deer use them pretty regularly.
It's fun listening to them eat pecans, you can hear them cracking from 100 yards away.(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
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Are they a thin shell variety or do you know the name of them

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Originally Posted by DavidinBama
I'll probably wait til next year on the pecans, I may try that variety,I'm going to try and research what nuts do well here and see if I can find somebody who sees deer eating them! Are those two varieties thin shelled,I feel like that may be an issue with deer but maybe not.
I didn't know pecans needed a pollinator. We have a few seedlings growing in the woods by themselves and they produce nuts, maybe they would do better if they had companions.
All these pecans around here and I never heard that. Shows what I know!
I probably need to focus on some other stuff around here, this grafting thing gets addicting!
==================================
Yes they are a thin shelled commercial variety. They are fairly new introduced in Kansas and bread for bight resistance.

Quick update on grafting pecans to hickory. So far I have 13 trees showing signs of success with green buds or leaf-out. 11 Kanza and 2 Pawnee. Here is my most advanced tree:

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Originally Posted by yoderj@cox.net
Quick update on grafting pecans to hickory. So far I have 13 trees showing signs of success with green buds or leaf-out. 11 Kanza and 2 Pawnee. Here is my most advanced tree:

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I've been looking around and I think that I have several wild pecan trees. I've always wondered if the trees I've seen are Hickory or Pecan, but have never paid them a lot of attention til now. Every now and then I'll see one producing,but maybe the one's that don't are missing a pollinator.
I think I have a new project for next year!
I don't think that the types that work well for you are recommended for down in this region, but I am going to do some research and try to be ready.
Hope to have success like you seem to be having!

How long does it take pecans to produce?

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Originally Posted by brushpile
How long does it take pecans to produce?
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Brush,
If you go back to the last page, I posted a link that references nuts in 2 years after grafting. I don't know if that is typical or not. I presume planted trees take much longer.
Thanks,
Jack

Jack--your pecan grafts look great!

 

[yoderjac]

Here is a small cluster of pecans grafted to hickory:

Thanks,
Jack

your pecan grafts look great. I didn't have quite the luck with my pecan grafts. Probably only 25% success but I should have enough scions from the ones that did take to redo some pecan grafting next year.
todd

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Originally Posted by brushpile
How long does it take pecans to produce?
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Kanza takes 5-7 years according to the Stark Brothers site.

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Originally Posted by dogdoc
your pecan grafts look great. I didn't have quite the luck with my pecan grafts. Probably only 25% success but I should have enough scions from the ones that did take to redo some pecan grafting next year.
todd
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My success rate was also much lower with pecans/hickory than my persimmon success rate. This happened to be a small cluster where every tree took.
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Originally Posted by jlc904
Kanza takes 5-7 years according to the Stark Brothers site.
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I believe they are talking about buying and planting trees, not grafting well established trees. I would assume grafting well established trees would produce nuts in significantly less time as it does with other trees.
Thanks,
Jack

I believe they are talking about buying and planting trees, not grafting well established trees. I would assume grafting well established trees would produce nuts in significantly less time as it does with other trees.
Thanks,
Jack

You are correct. That is a grafted tree 1-2 feet tall purchased from Stark Brothers. I should have been more specific.
[/quote]

I am bummed out about pecans. I planted 5 pecans (three varieties) in ~'98, and have had no joy. The trees produce pecans, but most of the pecans fail to develop and become sticktights - there would be 100's of blackend husks on the ground under each tree. I researched ag sites for guidance and tried a regular spray program with foliar zinc, fungicides and insecticides for three years. What relatively few pecans that developed properly were scavenged by squirrels (grrrrrr) - so I gave up spraying last year (and this year). Read up on pecan scab before you invest too much effort in pecans and get scab resistant varieties (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecan_scab
(I had dreams of pecan pie - I didn't plant them for the deer.)
-fsh

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Originally Posted by fshafly2
I am bummed out about pecans. I planted 5 pecans (three varieties) in ~'98, and have had no joy. The trees produce pecans, but most of the pecans fail to develop and become sticktights - there would be 100's of blackend husks on the ground under each tree. I researched ag sites for guidance and tried a regular spray program with foliar zinc, fungicides and insecticides for three years. What relatively few pecans that developed properly were scavenged by squirrels (grrrrrr) - so I gave up spraying last year (and this year). Read up on pecan scab before you invest too much effort in pecans and get scab resistant varieties (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecan_scab
(I had dreams of pecan pie - I didn't plant them for the deer.)
-fsh
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Great point. I did my homework before I started. Minimizing maintenance was very high on my priority list. That led me to Kanza for scab resistance and production. The nice thing about grafting to hickory is the cost is so low for scions that I don't feel bad not spraying trees. I ended up getting a few Pawnee for pollination and I don't worry if these get scab as long as it doesn't spread to the Kanza. Even if they don't work out, I won't have much invested.

 

[yoderjac]

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[yoderjac]

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