Nitro surf

[Brian662]

Looking at using Nitro surf with clethodim on my brassicas to hopefully get some nitrogen to the brassicas and knock out grasses at the same time.

Does this seem like a winning strategy or are there reservations on something like this?

The plot was mostly cool season CRP that was mowed and sprayed this summer, then tilled before planting brassicas. Grasses have come back expectedly and looking to slow them down.

I know @Foggy47 and @omicron1792 both have experience with Nitro Surf, this would be my first time using it.

Thanks for any help.

 

[Brian662]

Pics for reference to show the stage of the brassicas and grasses.

 

[Foggy47]

Sounds like a good plan to me. This is from the Keystone pages on Nitro Surf.

Nitro-Surf​

Approximate use rate: Varies according to Herbicide used, consult Herbicide label for specific use rate.

• 3-12 gallons of water per acre: 2.25 pints per acre
• 13-20 gallons of water per acre: 2.5 pints per acre
• 21-25 gallons of water per acre: 3 pints per acre
• Small batches: 2-3 ounces per gallon of water

Not recommended for use with any Glyphosate product!

Guaranteed Analysis 25-0-0
ACTIVE INGREDIENTS:

Urea ammonium nitrate (25% Nitrogen).............62.5%
Non-ionic surfactant blend............11.0%
OTHER INGREDIENTS:........26.5%
TOTAL: ...............100%

 

[homerj]

Why use Nitrosurf instead of liquid AMS? Lower cost?

 

[Foggy47]

Why use Nitrosurf instead of liquid AMS? Lower cost?

Two in one product. It has the AMS and surfacing pre-blended in one jug.

 

[TenPoint]

Shit those look great as is! I sprayed some grass selective herbicide on my brassicas Sunday. I’ve got way more grass pressure though. Probably did it two weeks too late but we’ll see what comes of it.

 

[TenPoint]

The brassicas are in there but tons of grass.

 

[Brian662]

The brassicas are in there but tons of grass.

Damn that looks like my lawn, no wonder you sprayed it.

 

[Brian662]

Shit those look great as is! I sprayed some grass selective herbicide on my brassicas Sunday. I’ve got way more grass pressure though. Probably did it two weeks too late but we’ll see what comes of it.

I like to keep the grass out of the plots because it will become a perennial problem and in early October I will spread 75-100# of rye on the brassicas, I don't want the grasses to compete with the rye for space.

 

[homerj]

Two in one product. It has the AMS and surfacing pre-blended in one jug.

Nitrosurf is urea and surfactant. Liquid AMS is ammonium

Two in one product. It has the AMS and surfacing pre-blended in one jug.

Nitrosurf is urea and surfactant, $50+shipping from Keystone https://www.keystonepestsolutions.c...NSRuxq174WlEAFQABUq7ZduTYAu0fXjBoCv6cQAvD_BwE
The only herbicides I've come across that recommend it are Raptor/Imox/Octivio and Pursuit.

Drexel Liquid AMS Supreme is ammonium sulfate, surfactant, and defoamer, $55 with free shipping from DoMyOwn https://www.domyown.com/drexel-ams-...-fW4AkEZUGIX1ojOXIv6uyQOVip0KPzRoCTkcQAvD_BwE
Many herbicides recommend AMS in some form, including Clethodim when you have hard water.

Application rates of each vary according to herbicide used. I was just wondering if Nitrosurf had some advantage over the liquid AMS.

 

[Brian662]

What is the nitrogen level of AMS. Nitro surf is 25-0-0 which is a decent shot of nitrogen for a crop like brassicas.

 

[homerj]

What is the nitrogen level of AMS. Nitro surf is 25-0-0 which is a decent shot of nitrogen for a crop like brassicas.

34%

 

[Brian662]

34%

I'm not sure that equates to 34% nitrogen.

 

[RGrizzzz]

Read your clethodim labels carefully. No liquid fertilizer for the crops mentioned below, which includes brassicas! I almost made the same mistake a few weekends ago.

CROP: Asparagus, Canola, Carrot, Clover, Cranberry, Cucurbits, Flax, Fruiting Vegetables (except tomato), Garden Beet, Garlic, Head & Stem Brassica Vegetables, Herbs, Hops, Leaf Petioles, Leafy Brassica greens, Leafy Greens, Mint, Mustard Seed, Onions (dry bulbs and green), Root Vegetables, Safflower, Sesame, Shallots (dry bulbs and green), Strawberry, Sweet Potato (Yam & other Tuberous and Corn Vegetables except Potato) and Tomato
ADJ: Always use a crop oil concentrate at 1% v/v in the finished spray volume unless tank mix instructions indicate otherwise. For these crops, the addition of liquid fertilizer is not recommended.

 

[Brian662]

Read your clethodim labels carefully. No liquid fertilizer for the crops mentioned below, which includes brassicas! I almost made the same mistake a few weekends ago.

CROP: Asparagus, Canola, Carrot, Clover, Cranberry, Cucurbits, Flax, Fruiting Vegetables (except tomato), Garden Beet, Garlic, Head & Stem Brassica Vegetables, Herbs, Hops, Leaf Petioles, Leafy Brassica greens, Leafy Greens, Mint, Mustard Seed, Onions (dry bulbs and green), Root Vegetables, Safflower, Sesame, Shallots (dry bulbs and green), Strawberry, Sweet Potato (Yam & other Tuberous and Corn Vegetables except Potato) and Tomato
ADJ: Always use a crop oil concentrate at 1% v/v in the finished spray volume unless tank mix instructions indicate otherwise. For these crops, the addition of liquid fertilizer is not recommended.

So what is right way to do it if using liquid? Wait a day? Wait a week?

Might have to just use some granular urea and spray the cleth later.

 

[homerj]

I'm not sure that equates to 34% nitrogen.

What does the 25 in 25-0-0 stand for on the Nitrosurf label?

Label on AMS Supreme says 34% ammonium sulfate

 

[RGrizzzz]

So what is right way to do it if using liquid? Wait a day? Wait a week?

Might have to just use some granular urea and spray the cleth later.

I'm not sure. I'd probably try to separate them by a week or so, but I know that isn't always possible. Maybe a good soaking rain in between instead of days.

 

[omicron1792]

You’ll have no problems using ams. Causes better uptake of herbicide and conditions the water.

Cleth won’t affect non grasses in any meaningful way

 

[Brian662]

What does the 25 in 25-0-0 stand for on the Nitrosurf label?

Label on AMS Supreme says 34% ammonium sulfate

I just don't think that 34% AMS translates to 34-0-0. If you look at nitro surf it is 62.5% ammonium nitrate which after dilution transfers to 25-0-0 guaranteed analysis. You'd have to find the guaranteed analysis of AMS to know how much nitrogen is actually making it into the plant.

 

[FarmerDan]

Disclaimer: I have never used the stuff. Reading the labels for both and following the discussion, unless I am missing something there's little to no fertilizer value in either of the products mentioned. The claim is the nitrogen enhances the uptake of the herbicide by the plant. Labeling rules require a listing of the ingredients and percentages of each in the product. NitroSurf goes beyond the requirements to offer what looks like a guaranteed fertilizer analysis 25-0-0. The manufacturer specification says the product weighs 10.25 lbs per gallon. So one gallon supplies about 2.5 lbs of actual N. Label use rates are far below one gallon making the nitrogen from the product available to the crop virtually zero. Providing a guaranteed analysis can only be a marketing gimmick.

AMS only lists ingredients. It contains 34% ammonium sulfate. Ammonium sulfate is 21% elemental N. The amount of N, then, supplied by AMS is 21% multiplied by 34% or 7%. If a gallon of AMS weighs 10 lb the application of a gallon supplies less than one pound of actual N.

What am I missing or what have I misunderstood or miscalculated?